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  1. #21
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    Nov. 17, 2010
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    Just something to think about - if this trainer isn't aware of what direction you want to go, and what your goals are, what is her basis for selecting this particular horse? Are you sure that buying this horse is the right thing to do if you are interested in going in a different direction than the trainer is intending?


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
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    Jan. 19, 2005
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    PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by baileyanne View Post
    I've been riding for 8 years, three times a week. Two years ago I bought a green, off the track QH and with the help of my trainer I trained him into a really nice pre-green hunter, and we're now selling him. I've had some minor confidence issues for my entire riding career, but through riding this horse and a few others I've gained all my confidence back and then some. I understand that she doesn't want to push me too hard too fast and cause me to lose all my confidence, but I'm ready to move up. I've tried to talk to her about it before and she always just brushes me off, but this weekend I'll be sitting down and talking to her about it.
    Perhaps because she is going to have to tell you something that you do not want to hear....that you are not ready. Perhaps you are close....but often, a rider with former confidence issues will regress VERY fast. She could be seeing things in your riding which tell her you are not ready. And perhaps it is the horses you are sitting on as well. With the new horse, if you are a good match...perhaps she intends to move you up then. But without the right horse, there is no point in moving you along if it has the potential to undo your confidence. Other riders don't have a confidence issue....I didn't ride any differently after splatting on the ground or being run away with as a kid. I was the fearless kind the that trainer could throw up on any horse and push and know that it would not shatter my confidence if it didn't go well. My good friend was probably a better rider than me, but would regress if she had a bad experience...and that would often happen when she tried to push up a level. Different riders....different paths.

    ETA: To me leaving because you feel ready to move up and your trainer hasn't moved you up is not often a good reason (and doesn't end well). It sounds like you HAVE progressed as a rider with the horses you have....as opposed to a rider who hasn't progressed. Now moving because the barn is too far away...that is very understandable. Or moving because you want to go to other shows that will not be possible where you are...also a good reason. Or moving because of crappy training or horse care. But all of the above should be done after having some open conversations.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **


    6 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov. 30, 2005
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    Northfield MN
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    Quote Originally Posted by dags View Post
    Trainers have horses they get along with and horses they don't get along with, just like everyone else. An established trainer knows what types work well in their program and prefer to seek out that type. Starving trainers take whatever walks in the door and are typically stuck with a few they can't stand. And usually a few that routinely try to kill them. It's a standard of success when you can finally pick and choose your clients.

    Not saying there are no scumbags out there looking only for another commission, but there is a logical reason behind the trainer that will be training the horse and rider wanting to be involved in the purchase decision.
    Thanks for wording that better than I did.

    While I agree that a trainer should do their best with whatever horse a client happens to bring them, many years of experience have brought me to the conclusion that it is much more productive to purchase a horse with input from the trainer whose program you plan to use. This advice is coming from someone who did not always do so..... older and wiser now.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Upstate NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by baileyanne View Post
    I'm extremely comfortable and succeeding at 2'6 right now, and the horse I'm looking at I've been riding for a few months could easily do 3'6+. My trainer just isn't moving me up and hasn't explained why she isn't either.
    Time to be an adult and have a conversation and listen to the answer and not do the la la la can not hear you thing.

    You think you are ready and your trainer is not jumping at the chance to push you. Maybe your trainer knows how quickly you fall backwards when something goes wrong so instead of doing all kinds of things to push you forward too fast she is making one change at a time. New horse means working at a good known level until all those little glitches are figured out.

    If you do decide to move anyway, deal with it like you deal with anything, facts and honestly.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov. 22, 2010
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    Where they've got all Hell for a basement
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    Honestly, if "moving up" is your main goal and you think that a new horse and a new trainer is the fast track to success, you may want to reconsider. Usually with a new horse, the time that it takes to get acquainted to eachother sets you back a bit, regardless of how ready you feel on your current horse.

    When I was at the end of my pony years (I did the pony jumper thing rather than the bows and garters thing) I felt like I could ride anything and jump any height. They used to have pony jumpers at the North American during Spruce Meadows Summer Series, which I took my pony to, and we did great. It was my first foray in the "big leagues", or so I thought. When we took my pony home from Spruce and tried to do the 1.10 jumpers, we ran into quite a bit of trouble in the horse-strided combinations. I began to get frustrated and felt that being on a pony was "holding me back", and that I need a horse so I could just move on up and do the 1.10-1.15 jumpers, equitation and beyond.

    I ended up getting a very scopey 10 year old been there, done that WB gelding for a song, and thought that it would be my big break, so to speak. We started in the 2'9 pre-childrens hunters. I don't know how different this new horse is from your current horse, but by the sounds of it, it might be quite a different ride for you. Going from a quick strided jumper pony (or in your case, a little off track QH 2'6 specialist) to something with scope and step for 3'6+ is a challenge in itself.

    I did eventually move up to the junior hunters and the equitation on said horse, but only after a full year of rebuilding and learning how to ride a nice horse that could go well, instead of just hanging on and running around on my pony at breakneck speed.

    If I were in your shoes and really was set on this new horse, I would have a serious sit down with your trainer and say, "Hey. I want to show more this summer so I can make some real progress with Dobbin. Do you think we could maybe hit some of the A shows in the area?"

    I'm sure your trainer would be happy to oblige. If she is helping you out that much to get a horse, she should be willing to take you to a few A shows. That doesn't necessarily even mean that you have to jump any bigger to do these bigger shows - it will just give you the needed A show experience. If she truly does not have the resources to get you there, lots of trainers are happy to send a student with another trainer-friend to a few As.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
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    Mar. 24, 2012
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    You may not have to tell her. If she reads Coth no doubt she would recognize the situation with all the details that have been given.

    Agree with those saying that if you buy the horse and leave you should insist on paying her a reasonable commission for her efforts. If you can't afford to do that, maybe take a pass on the horse.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
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    Aug. 7, 2012
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    316

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    I think you might be a bit too big for your britches.

    Id get new horse, see how things go, then after 6-12 months, reassess BUT you MUST talk to her and tell her you want to go to the bigger shows and you want to move up. You MUST find out why she hasnt moved you up yet, etc. You may be making assumptions that are incorrect. You might not be as good as you think you are. Its tough but its honest. On the other hand, you might be and your trainer isnt confident enough to teach at that level. Either way, an honest conversation should unearth all this.

    Sounds like you have a great trainer and I wouldnt be so quick to throw that away. Its priceless and sounds like she has a vested interest in you, not only as a rider, but as a friend and mentoree (if thats a word)


    6 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug. 1, 2007
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    West Palm Beach, FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockpot View Post
    Agree with those saying that if you buy the horse and leave you should insist on paying her a reasonable commission for her efforts. If you can't afford to do that, maybe take a pass on the horse.
    If you buy the horse, don't pay her a commission and then leave, that is a surefire way of making a bad name for yourself. Not to mention it will likely ruin not only your professional relationship, but your PERSONAL relationship with this trainer, because you are essentially using her to get you a deal on this horse and then leaving her high and dry. Ouch. Not to get into a whole ethics debate, but IMO that's a completely unethical way of doing things.

    You need to have an honest conversation with her like YESTERDAY, about where you are now, what your goals are (with or without New Horse), and your concerns about her program and why you aren't moving up. Honest, non-confrontational, tell her EVERYTHING about how you've been considering moving after buying New Horse. Total transparency.
    Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
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    Jan. 1, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlatinumVt View Post
    Just something to think about - if this trainer isn't aware of what direction you want to go, and what your goals are, what is her basis for selecting this particular horse? Are you sure that buying this horse is the right thing to do if you are interested in going in a different direction than the trainer is intending?
    This would be my question, too. Surely, if you are moving onto a different horse, one that's already been selected, you've had some sort of conversation with the trainer about goals and why the new horse is a good match?

    If the horse you are considering has 3'6" potential, you've obviously had some sort of meeeting of the minds with your current trainer about your future. I suspect something else is going on with this trainer relationship.

    It's business. Don't personalize it or stay in a professional relationship with someone because you feel you "owe them" or they'll get upset if you leave. True professionals understand that clients/customers leave all the time for various reasons, none of which may have anything to do with the quality of the services they provided.
    Fan of the Swedish Chef



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
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    Philadelphia PA
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    I don't think you need to leave, I think you need to COMMUNICATE with her about...

    1. Your goals in terms of height and show type/frequency
    2. The deal with the new horse/no commission

    If she cannot accommodate you then you need to leave. I would either not buy this horse or pay her a standard commission. If she can accommodate you, then I would stick with someone who you clearly trust who has invested in you and done right by you to date.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
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    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31
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    Oct. 29, 2000
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    God I hate this new BB. My answer just disappeared into the ethernet...

    To The OP:
    "I used to have money, now I have horses."


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    Feb. 21, 2011
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    350

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    If you don't trust this trainer's judgment (which I assume you must not to some extent), I am wondering why you are using her guidance to choose your "move up" horse. You say she isn't capable of moving you up the levels; if this is true how can you be so sure she is the right person to find you a horse to do so? It seems the bigger problem is the communication breakdown between you. I somehow don't think that if you had already discussed plans to move up on your new horse that you would be on here feeling frustrated as you currently are.

    Talk to your trainer. Find out why you haven't moved up. Be open minded. Moving above 2'6 and competing at A shows in the 3' level, or 3'6+ as you mention, is often way more difficult than many people think. It takes a certain quality horse and rider experience. If these are your goals, you need to make it clear to your current trainer. Listen to what she says about her plan to get you there. If she really doesn't have the resources or talent, that's one thing. But I agree that leaving solely because you want to jump higher isn't the best bet.

    If what you really want is to compete at 3'+ at A shows, maybe shop around for a trainer who would be a better fit to help you do this. Take a lesson so new trainer can evaluate your riding. Talk about your goals and what they think you need both financially and riding wise to get to the next level. If you find the right person, maybe that is who you should select to help you find a new horse; someone who is more familiar with the quality and experience needed. Of course all of this is predicated on the assumption that your not moving up really has been because of the trainer and not you or your horse. Before making any rash decisions, I would be sure this is the case. You will only know this after having a very straightforward conversation with your trainer!!



  13. #33
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    Oct. 29, 2000
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    Southern Pines, N.C.
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    3rd try...................................
    To the OP: You do not want to tell her you are moving. You want to present everything in such a way that SHE sees the need for you to move so you can accomplish your goals. This means you have to present your goals in such a way that her current situation is incapable of providing you with what you need.To go a step further, you need to define your ideal trainer in such terms that the person you want to go with is the only trainer who fits your criteria. The SHE will see that you not only ove on, but that XXX is the perfect trainer for you. Even ask her to call Mr. XXX to ask if he has room for you. (Warn XXX that she will be calling, but do not tell him about the subterfuge.) If all this goes well then she will be like a mother hen, seeing her little chicks fly away and wishing them well. ------ My ENTER key is not working, so I have not been able to put this into paragraphs, sorry. I am also high on Robaxin for horrible muscle spasms in my back. I hope this makes sense.
    "I used to have money, now I have horses."


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
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    Aug. 27, 2008
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    391

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    It seems like you're beig an adult by sitting down with her and discussing the issues. I just wanted to give you my experience because I had a very similar one. I was an hour away from my trainer who I was with forever and loved her. She also only does the local shows because it's mostly kids and a couple of adults that are only interested in doing the local stuff. I did leave and go to a barn closer to me. I felt so bad because she had taken on my lame horse even though I offered to take him, etc. but she kept him for free. The grass really wasn't greener. The new barn had a lot of things going on that I didn't like and I ended up going back to my old trainer. Honesty is the best policy. I know my trainer was really mad at me but I think because I didn't do anything shady or behind her back she appreciated that. On the other hand, I am still an hour away and don't know if that will work forever but right now I am happy I returned. Definitely talk to her about your concerns but think really hard about all of the pros and cons of moving too. There are a lot of them!



  15. #35
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    Aug. 18, 2012
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    Atlanta, GA
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    30

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    Thank you all for all this advice! It definitely helped me think about things in ways that I hadn't before. Rethinking about everything, I do think I may be jumping the gun a little bit with moving, because I haven't even had a conversation about it with her yet. When we talk this weekend I'll give her a clear picture of my goals and she'll either agree that I need to move because her place isn't the place to get me there or she'll say that she is the right person to help me reach my goals.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
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    Feb. 21, 2011
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    350

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    Quote Originally Posted by baileyanne View Post
    Thank you all for all this advice! It definitely helped me think about things in ways that I hadn't before. Rethinking about everything, I do think I may be jumping the gun a little bit with moving, because I haven't even had a conversation about it with her yet. When we talk this weekend I'll give her a clear picture of my goals and she'll either agree that I need to move because her place isn't the place to get me there or she'll say that she is the right person to help me reach my goals.
    Good idea. This is, IMO, the wise thing to do. Try to come up with a plan together of how you will get there. Stay realistic; things don't happen overnight!



  17. #37
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    Feb. 19, 2009
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    I agree that sounds like a good plan. Trainer/client relationship should be just like any other relationship-communication really is the key to success. Its not fair to your trainer to expect her to just know certain things that you want. They're horse trainers, not mind readers!

    Good luck!



  18. #38
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    Jun. 11, 2001
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    Costa Mesa, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by baileyanne View Post
    I don't know why she's forgoing her commission other than that she thinks this horse and I are a perfect match and wants to help me get him because he's more than a little over the original budget. I plan on talking to her this weekend about everything, but I just wanted a little advice on how to tell her that I won't be staying with her much longer.
    Shes forgoing her commissoin because of her realtionship with you that she assumes is going to continue. Don't take advantage of that relationship, just pay her and be honest BEFORE you buy the horse. She is doing the work FOR YOU so pay her what she would normally get. To skip out on the commission and then move the horse is a terribly dishonest way of doing a move.

    Her relationship with you, no matter how far away you move, is worth saving and keeping in tact. NO horse is worth getting at the cost of this friendship, she has been good to you.
    [url]http://www.horseshowbiz.com
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  19. #39
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    Nov. 17, 2006
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    Like some others have said, I think this may be a communication issue. I have a feeling since you are younger, you may be like most young people and do not communicate as well as you think. I know as a young person I had difficulties communicating with "adults". What I would recommend is have a sit-down with one or both of your parents. Really explain what you are trying to accomplish. Let them read this thread. Then, together, go talk to your trainer. It may help to have someone there to back you up. It may also come across more serious and legitimate. Good luck.
    Last edited by ParadoxFarm; Nov. 28, 2012 at 03:40 PM. Reason: Add
    “Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.”
    ¯ Oscar Wilde



  20. #40
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    Aug. 1, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by baileyanne View Post
    Thank you all for all this advice! It definitely helped me think about things in ways that I hadn't before. Rethinking about everything, I do think I may be jumping the gun a little bit with moving, because I haven't even had a conversation about it with her yet. When we talk this weekend I'll give her a clear picture of my goals and she'll either agree that I need to move because her place isn't the place to get me there or she'll say that she is the right person to help me reach my goals.
    Further proof that sometimes its best to think out loud and get the opinions of others before doing something that may end up being a knee-jerk reaction. Glad you're going to take the time to think about it and talk it over with your trainer.
    Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.



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