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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    But see, even talking about it here is really useful to people, I'm sure. There are lots of things that happen in this world that we *don't* talk about, and I'm not sure that's the right answer.
    Absolutely. Heck, just a month or so ago when Eclipse was at the dealers with a decent price tag, there were CoTHers saying "how is this horse at risk?"

    Um... Hello. He's at a dealer's. You know what car dealers do with unwanted cars? Same concept applies to horses.

    You put a decent price on them. No one buys them, you lower the price. Still no takers? Send them to auction. No one wants them there? To the car crusher we go.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  2. #62
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    Oct. 15, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    Shocking but I can name offhand at least 10 people I know who are sort of backyardy horse types, love their horses and would be horrified to learn what happens at New Holland on Mondays... and yet truly and honestly HAVE NO IDEA THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS. And therefore would never, ever think someone taking a free horse would have end sights on their horse ending up in the pipeline. For better or worse, basic horse people are sometimes very sheltered about what happens.

    Basic pet owners are pretty sheltered about bunching. I worked in an animal research lab. Those were people's cat's and dogs. Pets. People are ignorant about puppy mills. People don't know the Amish breed cats specifically for animal research.

    I'm endlessly surprised by what people DON'T know. And disgusted by people who prey upon that lack of knowledge.
    Very well said. This.
    *Wendy* 4.17.73 - 12.20.05



  3. #63
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    Jun. 30, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    doesn't want skinny horses because people end up calling AC on him when they are in pasture, and then AC requires him to get a vet check done on the horse.
    Not buying this. If he has been doing this long enough, he should have an established relationship with AC who would know he takes in thin horses and helps them get back to a healthy weight.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #64
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    Oct. 6, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by jen-s View Post
    I, for one, don't ever put my name in a CL ad.

    Look, it's obvious that you don't like the ad. That's ok. Don't send him a horse. But for some people, it might be the only option between a bullet or a cold, hungry winter. I'd love it if every horse had a snug, warm barn with fluffy blankets and endless gorgeous hay. But that's Jen-land and not reality. Is Tim likely an angel, doubtful. But is he giving some horses a chance at a better life, sounds like it from his neighbors posts above. So why don't you just call him and complain about the wording of the ad and move on?
    I don't necessarily mean his full name but identify who he is/barn name/business name. Since apparently he's a minor local hero for the "work" he does with unwanted horses?

    What's so bad about a bullet?
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  5. #65
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    Oct. 9, 2007
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    Central NJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    I don't necessarily mean his full name but identify who he is/barn name/business name. Since apparently he's a minor local hero for the "work" he does with unwanted horses?

    What's so bad about a bullet?
    There is nothing wrong with a bullet, but that is the responsibility of the owner, not the dealer or flipper.

    This guy is not ripping off unwary owners. He simply says "I will take your unwanted horses". The owner can ask questions or use a bullet, but the responsibility is on the owner more than on the flipper in my mind.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    What's so bad about a bullet?
    It's not so bad compared to some options. But I'm kinda partial to the idea that horses get another shot (pun intended) at a decent life. I hate to put one down before their time, but if that's the best option on the table, I'd make that call in a second.

    I very much realize that you can't save them all. I've also put myself in a position to save one (who turned into two) and wound up in a fugly financial position as a result. I learned my lesson about having to make tough calls and I've gotten that reinforced over and over here.

    Regardless, I'd love to see every horse with a forever, loving, doting, pampering home, but they don't let me run the world.
    Flip a coin. It's not what side lands that matters, but what side you were hoping for when the coin was still in the air.

    You call it boxed wine. I call it carboardeaux.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  7. #67
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    Jul. 21, 2006
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    On a purely selfish note, I'm glad to hear kill buyers aren't interested in greys.

    I'd imagine this guy will take anything the meat man will buy. If he can turn a bigger profit on it by putting in some training and re-selling it as a saddle horse, he'll do it. If not, then he has a place to send the ones who don't work out.

    I think he's pretty upfront about his intentions.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by jen-s View Post
    Regardless, I'd love to see every horse with a forever, loving, doting, pampering home, but they don't let me run the world.
    I'd vote for you!
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #69
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    Aug. 14, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    Does he take lame ones? Do those get made up into fabulous sport horses and sold at frying pan?

    I agree with you that there's nothing dishonest about the ad per sae. But I won't agree that it's not a seedy business to go around collecting people's cast-off horses and flipping them when you know a large portion of them are going to end right in the slaughter stream. And I have to think that's his primary motivation and not secondary. If the FIRST thought is flip for resale, why "no grays" and why not at least some indication that the horses have to be sound?
    would you rather they end up starved, abandoned or worse?

    at least he is giving some horses a second chance with a future.... more than many do.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    Not buying this. If he has been doing this long enough, he should have an established relationship with AC who would know he takes in thin horses and helps them get back to a healthy weight.
    Even if he has a relationship with AC - they still have to go out and investigate each time someone calls.....

    i know several folks in rescues and they literally hide the skinny ones - or refuse to take them - because the idiot do-gooders keep calling AC.....


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #71
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    Oct. 6, 2002
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    False alternative. I'd rather they be put down if the owners can't care for them. Or given away to someone who themselves wants the horse. Or cared for by the person who has them even if it means that person makes other sacrifices. It's a strawman to say the only choices are starving to death or the killers. A complete strawman.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #72
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    False alternative. I'd rather they be put down if the owners can't care for them. Or given away to someone who themselves wants the horse. Or cared for by the person who has them even if it means that person makes other sacrifices. It's a strawman to say the only choices are starving to death or the killers. A complete strawman.

    well, if everybody were to put down a horse they no longer needed/wanted etc, because maybe there is a chance they could end up in a bad place, guess what:
    It would greatly diminish the chances for the rest of us to find a horse.

    Besides, considering the numbers that actually do ship, how great are the odds really for a horse to end up there?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    well, if everybody were to put down a horse they no longer needed/wanted etc, because maybe there is a chance they could end up in a bad place, guess what:
    It would greatly diminish the chances for the rest of us to find a horse.

    Besides, considering the numbers that actually do ship, how great are the odds really for a horse to end up there?
    False alternative! There are a hundred options between putting down or giving to the meatman...

    1. Donating to a college/riding school
    2. Giving away to a friend
    3. Networking through a pony club to find a home
    4. Donating to a rescue
    5. Keeping as a pasture pet
    6. Free leasing

    the list goes on and on. Each has plusses and minuses. But to say it's either death or the meatman... that's a strawman argument.

    And I daresay there will be PLENTY of horses out there for buyers to buy if the flipper decides to be forthright about what he does. I am not suggesting there be no flippers.... just that they be upfront about what it is they're doing. There are zillions of horses born every day and plenty that are slaughtered. I don't think a horse shortage is likely to happen anytime soon. Just like cats and dogs. The supply is far outstripping the demand. By a lot.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/


    5 members found this post helpful.

  14. #74
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    Aug. 14, 2004
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    i can't believe someone is actually saying that sending a horse to someone who will put work on them, give them an education and them find them a home is bad.

    is it the money that bothers you?

    and of course there are other options, but usually if someone is going to give away their horse - they have already tried other options.... and have you tried to get rid of a horse lately? the inn is full at many many places....

    i give the guy props for doing something to help the horses future. even if it is only a few a year.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  15. #75
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    May. 17, 2010
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    Where humidity isn't just a word, it's a way of life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    False alternative.

    I'd rather they be put down if the owners can't care for them.

    What if they can't afford to do so? Depending on location it can be $1,000 or more to euthanize and bury/haul away. What if their emergancy fund is already spent trying to hang on to the horse, or trying to give it away with no takers? Who pays for that; I still see uproars over the few euthanasia clinics there are.

    Or given away to someone who themselves wants the horse.

    That works well for the young, in good shape, well-trained ones. What about the fuglies, the oldies, and ones you can't find takers for? What if you can't find someone to take it before the $$ runs out? Rescues are full up, anyone that wants a horse can take their choice, but there are still plenty that make the trip

    Or cared for by the person who has them even if it means that person makes other sacrifices.
    What if the person is out of a job and the choice is between feeding the horse and feeding the family? What if everything else has been used up/sold and there are no other sacrifices to make? Do you feed the horse or put gas in the car to go to work?
    It's a strawman to say the only choices are starving to death or the killers. A complete strawman.
    I think the vast majority of people on this board would rather all of the above options you suggested, too.
    The problem is when there are too many hurting people and not enough ones who can/will take on an unwanted horse just to give it a safe home or pay to euthanize. This isn't the 90s when slaughter horses went for $800-1000 and priced people out of owning them; right now the KB are paying $50-$100 for a horse and turning down many of them, and there are more that need homes every day.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  16. #76
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    Oct. 24, 2003
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    Hunt Country Heaven, VA
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    So I guess based on the "no gray" stipulation, gray horses are NEVER slaughtered because the meat man has ethics, eh?


    How sad that based on a few lines in an advertisement, people are so quick to draw assumptions as to someone's character. The difference is that I have known him for several years and while he does make money flipping horses, there is no parade of Alpo candidates being shipped off to market. I'm done with this post. Have at him jackals.
    Lost in the Land of the Know It Alls


    9 members found this post helpful.

  17. #77
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    Dec. 2, 2009
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    I just don't understand why that's seen as an attack on character, Outfxed. For the record, even if he sells to meat, I don't think that's necessarily awful.

    Are you suggesting it's a myth that KB's won't buy grey ones because of melanoma? I don't think it's got anything to do with ethics, but rather with what the slaughter plant requires. If you've got evidence to the contrary, I'd love to hear it.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #78
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    Oct. 6, 2002
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    A bullet is inexpensive, very doable in that area (several prominent hunts and generally they have someone/know someone who can do it), and I have no problem with that. If death is the best option. No problem with that. But, again, there are alternatives. Many of them. Each with plusses/minuses. Some easier and more difficult than others. To ignore that, is not to really engage in the discussion. It's just to play at throwing out fallacies and not listening.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #79
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    Outfoxed, maybe if you read rather than jumped to conclusions... you'd have a better sense of what a lot of us are saying.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    False alternative! There are a hundred options between putting down or giving to the meatman...

    1. Donating to a college/riding school

    If you can find one to take it right now. And many sell to slaughter when they are done with them.

    2. Giving away to a friend

    Good option, if you can find one. If you had a friend that would take it, wouldn't it already be rehomed? I would think by the time you are responding to "I'll take your unwanted horse" ads, one would have checked their inner circle for takers, if they wanted a good home.

    3. Networking through a pony club to find a home

    Excellent option, if there are any takers; but what if there aren't any?

    4. Donating to a rescue

    Could you point me toward any that are still eager to take in horses, that still have room and resources to take more in?

    5. Keeping as a pasture pet

    Still requires feed and care, if not boarding expenses. How do you do that if there are no funds?

    6. Free leasing

    Great option, if the horse has value to someone so that they are willing to pay for its upkeep. But what if the horse isn't one that someone would free lease?
    I think all of these are great options if you can find someone willing. The problem is there are many more horses needed a home than decent homes right now. And it being fall, it is only going to get worse as people realize they can't afford them through the winter.
    Last edited by MoonoverMississippi; Nov. 28, 2012 at 12:47 PM. Reason: It's hump day, sigh


    8 members found this post helpful.

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