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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    Outfoxed, maybe if you read rather than jumped to conclusions... you'd have a better sense of what a lot of us are saying.
    I have read every post, no skimming, so I am not jumping to any conclusions. I understand what a lot of you are saying and kudos especially to MistyBlue. Its those of you who have him labeled as a liar or unethical in his intentions that have jumped to conclusions based on reading a few lines.
    Lost in the Land of the Know It Alls


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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outfxed View Post
    So I guess based on the "no gray" stipulation, gray horses are NEVER slaughtered because the meat man has ethics, eh?
    No. But greys have a lower resale in the meat pipeline because not ALL slaughter houses take them. So if he can't flip this horse and runs it through an auction, any other color other than grey is a better return on risk. And honestly, I can't see how his business model would work if he didn't have auctions as an outlet for his culls, so grey HAS to be a consideration.
    Last edited by SmartAlex; Nov. 28, 2012 at 12:52 PM. Reason: punctuation


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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outfxed View Post
    I have read every post, no skimming, so I am not jumping to any conclusions. I understand what a lot of you are saying and kudos especially to MistyBlue. Its those of you who have him labeled as a liar or unethical in his intentions that have jumped to conclusions based on reading a few lines.
    I never called him a liar and I don't think anyone else did either.

    I do think it's unethical not to be up front about the plan for the horses. That's my opinion. He/you are going to have to accept that ethics have gray areas and what one person considers just inside the line is what another person considers outside the line. I've made it quite clear that I don't have a problem with what he actually does (take free horses and resell them to anyone with green money including, if necessary the killers). I do have a problem with the way he goes about it (not making this explicit in his ads).
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/


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  4. #84
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    What's interesting, Outfxed, is that it's you who is making the judgement on character based on what your point of view. You are thinking that it's a sign of lower moral character to send a horse to slaughter. Therefore, by saying that he has the potential to send horses to slaughter, that we're saying he's of low moral character.

    I'm not saying that.

    I'm saying that he probably is, and we probably ought to talk about it. Even if he's not - this thread has done a world of good toward furthering the discussion of what DOES happen at "this end" of the horse world and what should happen.

    How can anyone perceive that as not a good thing?


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    I never called him a liar and I don't think anyone else did either.

    I do think it's unethical not to be up front about the plan for the horses. That's my opinion. He/you are going to have to accept that ethics have gray areas and what one person considers just inside the line is what another person considers outside the line. I've made it quite clear that I don't have a problem with what he actually does (take free horses and resell them to anyone with green money including, if necessary the killers). I do have a problem with the way he goes about it (not making this explicit in his ads).
    I guess I just feel the ad was way closer to being up front about those things than many I see around here. I don't think this is someone who would go check out a free horse and spin a story about how he's going to be a therapy horse/mytrailhorseforlife/for my darling daughter. Maybe because I've seen so much of that it's warped my senses for these things a little bit.
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.


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  6. #86
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    In addition - and for the record - I do not believe that anyone sending a horse to slaughter is of low moral character *unless* they are not upfront about their intentions like the people mentioned in the thread who promised forever homes and then didn't follow through. That is morally and ethically wrong.

    It'd be great if we had local and humane slaughter plants so that this issue was handled even better. We don't, because the NIMBYs and the people who get all up at arms about slaughter tried to ban it, and we're seeing the consequences of that now.

    I don't see the difference between a bullet to the head, and a bullet to the head that ends up feeding other people or animals. I DO see the difference in all of this posturing that ends up hurting animals long term.

    Not every horse gets to live in a competition barn, and I've seen a lot of questionable action and care in the "nicest" of places. Far better to be realistic about it, honestly.


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  7. #87
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    FYI, the REAL local heros of rescuing horses and other animals in the Middleburg area are the wonderful folks at the Middleburg Humane Foundation.

    They are a private not-for-profit organization. You can find them here:

    http://mysite.verizon.net/bizqmjr1/index.html

    Here is an article from my website. It is about a situation involving a kill buyer answering ads for free horses.

    http://www.theexcellenthorse.com/_do...9BF2B310D4334F

    Pretty scary!


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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    Are we sure that the ad was placed by the guy that you guys are defending?
    Yes,
    I've been emailing with him. He won't say what he does with ones that don't work out. I'm pretty sure they are sold at auction with no reserve. He is pro slaughter, but does seem to be helping some, by retraining and selling. I am ok with what he is doing but wish he was more upfront with what the horse's fate will be if he doesn't work out. That's my only issue with him.

    On a personal level he sounds like kind of a jerk in his emails. I've been very polite, and he calls anyone who has the nerve to ask what he does with the horses "shitheads".


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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    I think all of these are great options if you can find someone willing. The problem is there are many more horses needed a home than decent homes right now. And it being fall, it is only going to get worse as people realize they can't afford them through the winter.
    The horses that none of those great options apply to aren't the ones this guy is looking for. He doesn't want those horses either. Otherwise he wouldn't be a flipper, he'd just be the meat man.

    If you have one of those horses, giving it to this guy is the same thing as taking it straight to New Holland. So how is he really providing an option for people who have run out of options for their horses? He's not offering them anything different from any kill buyer, because after a brief assessment, those horses are still going on the slaughter truck.

    I think VX's point is those owners ought to be doing right by their horses, not sending them to this interim path on their way to slaughter. And my take is that giving people who shouldn't have horses in the first place a free trailer ride to the auction isn't really such a great service. I'd rather they didn't have an easy way out.

    And if he was upfront in the ad that the ones who nobody wants go to the slaughterhouse, how many takers would he still have? BTW the OP on CL has already been flagged for removal, so apparently plenty of people were offended.
    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns



    4 members found this post helpful.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Yes,
    he calls anyone who has the nerve to ask what he does with the horses "shitheads".
    Oh, he sure sounds like someone I would like to do business with!
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


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  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by MandyVA View Post
    So how is he really providing an option for people who have run out of options for their horses? He's not offering them anything different from any kill buyer, because after a brief assessment, those horses are still going on the slaughter truck.

    I think VX's point is those owners ought to be doing right by their horses, not sending them to this interim path on their way to slaughter. And my take is that giving people who shouldn't have horses in the first place a free trailer ride to the auction isn't really such a great service. I'd rather they didn't have an easy way out.
    The optimist side of me would rather the horses get a once over by someone who can spot a diamond in the rough (and let's face it, if you're down to having to give it away, it's just about guaranteed to be a bit rough!) and who apparently has the time, patience, and resources to put into remaking that horse into something with more value than the price of meat.
    Flip a coin. It's not what side lands that matters, but what side you were hoping for when the coin was still in the air.

    You call it boxed wine. I call it carboardeaux.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Yes,
    I've been emailing with him. He won't say what he does with ones that don't work out. I'm pretty sure they are sold at auction with no reserve. He is pro slaughter, but does seem to be helping some, by retraining and selling. I am ok with what he is doing but wish he was more upfront with what the horse's fate will be if he doesn't work out. That's my only issue with him.

    On a personal level he sounds like kind of a jerk in his emails. I've been very polite, and he calls anyone who has the nerve to ask what he does with the horses "shitheads".
    His original ad sounds something like a jerk, or at minimum blunt, to the point, and don't-waste-my-time-ish.
    However, I do have to give him credit for even keeping an email correspondence with someone who is asking questions and doesn't seem to be interested in giving him horses. He could have told you to go pound sand.

    If the ad even suggested "I'll retrain and sell" or "personal pony" or "good home" or anything that many KB ads do, I'd be very disgusted. But he doesn't do that.

    But suggesting that it should be the buyers/takers responsibility to spell everything out so the seller/giver doesn't need to lift a finger to google them or ask questions is sad; are we that inept?
    And is it everyone else's responsibility to make sure they know everything so they don't have to bother themselves?
    People that don't bother to ask questions often don't want to know, and, at minimum, have zero reason to bitch about the end results.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  13. #93
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    The only contact I've had with this man is when I had DD's large pony up for lease/sale before he went to live with a fellow COTHer. I never even considered his offer to me (to give me a baby off his stallion in exchange for my really nice made large children's pony) partly because I needed something DD could move up on now and partly because his tone in every email he sent me was absolutely condescending and rude. He also told me my pony would be for his daughter, but when I checked him out I found out he is a flipper and I felt like odds were good he'd be flipping my pony.
    I don't have anything constructive to add to what has already been said about his solicitous craigslist posting as I think the majority here have it correct - he will flip what he can and send the rest to slaughter. Just not surprised to hear him call anyone who questions him a "shithead" based on how he was when he was communicating with me last year.
    Sorry to see xtranormal is gone
    For funnies, search youtube for horseyninjawarrior!

    Www.caringbridge.org/visit/mysecretgarden


    9 members found this post helpful.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Yes,
    I've been emailing with him. He won't say what he does with ones that don't work out. I'm pretty sure they are sold at auction with no reserve. He is pro slaughter, but does seem to be helping some, by retraining and selling. I am ok with what he is doing but wish he was more upfront with what the horse's fate will be if he doesn't work out. That's my only issue with him.

    On a personal level he sounds like kind of a jerk in his emails. I've been very polite, and he calls anyone who has the nerve to ask what he does with the horses "shitheads".
    why would he tell you.
    Unless you are looking to buy those, it's nonya.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  15. #95
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    Darn duplicates!
    Sorry to see xtranormal is gone
    For funnies, search youtube for horseyninjawarrior!

    Www.caringbridge.org/visit/mysecretgarden



  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    why would he tell you.
    Unless you are looking to buy those, it's nonya.
    Because rather than just speculate on a BB I thought I would get it straight from him. And I emailed him after posting a response on the CL ad he posted. So I apologized if I was wrong, and asked what he did with the ones that don't work out...


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  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    why would he tell you.
    Unless you are looking to buy those, it's nonya.
    If you're giving him a horse (or thinking about it) how is it none of your business what he plans to do with them?!
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/


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  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by jen-s View Post
    if you're down to having to give it away, it's just about guaranteed to be a bit rough!)
    I dunno about that. When I was in GA I knew a friend of a friend of a friend who had a fabulous 3'6 horse. The plan was when she went to college, they'd sell the horse. I can't remember what happened, but something unrelated happened with the trainer and the horse never got sold. Nothing wrong with him, not his fault. He did get ridden. Just got shown or sold and was every bit the 3'6 horse he had been. After a year or so, the parents got sick of paying the bills. THEY didn't know anyone horsey. The trainer was useless (clearly) so they just decided to give him away. IIRC they put an AD IN THE PENNYSAVER and who knows who got that horse. Nice horses end up in weird situations for all kinds of reasons. It's never safe to assume a person selling a horse is internet savvy or horse savvy. My mom doesn't know what New Holland is. If I died in a car accident, what would become of my horses???
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/


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  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    If you're giving him a horse (or thinking about it) how is it none of your business what he plans to do with them?!
    Once the ink dries on the bill of sale it is no longer my horse.

    However: I was specifically talking to the person emailing him and being a bit upset about him not telling her what he will do with those horses.
    She did not give him a horse, did not buy one from him, for all I know she does not even reside in the same time zone as he.
    For what earthly reason would he tell a complete stranger his business dealings?!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    His original ad sounds something like a jerk, or at minimum blunt, to the point, and don't-waste-my-time-ish.
    However, I do have to give him credit for even keeping an email correspondence with someone who is asking questions and doesn't seem to be interested in giving him horses. He could have told you to go pound sand.

    If the ad even suggested "I'll retrain and sell" or "personal pony" or "good home" or anything that many KB ads do, I'd be very disgusted. But he doesn't do that.

    But suggesting that it should be the buyers/takers responsibility to spell everything out so the seller/giver doesn't need to lift a finger to google them or ask questions is sad; are we that inept?
    And is it everyone else's responsibility to make sure they know everything so they don't have to bother themselves?
    People that don't bother to ask questions often don't want to know, and, at minimum, have zero reason to bitch about the end results.
    Someone posted a link earlier to a thread about this same guy's stallion. I read the stallion thread a little, and the guy himself actually posts a few times. He does sound rather blunt.
    *Wendy* 4.17.73 - 12.20.05


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