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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by ideayoda View Post
    And least we forget, ALL (even fei) horses used to have to jump a fence after the tests...so they did it in a dressage saddle.
    On the other hand, in Neil ffrench Blake's "World of Dressage" there is a rather amusing picture of a British Dressage rider who competed in the Rome (1960) Olympics doing her "obedience jump" - swallow tails flying - and TOTALLY left behind. She's yielded the reins pretty much, and the horse is happy - but as a picture of jumping form it leaves a lot to be desired - safety seat, most definitely! *G* The horse was a Connemara cross called Little Model and I'm sorry I cannot remember the rider's name. The caption in the book is something along the lines of "the Connemara breeding showing its effect!"



  2. #62
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    *^*^*^
    Himmlische Traumpferde
    "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"



  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by alto View Post
    OK VIDEO please!!!

    (of course if your cc saddle is like the standard County Stabilizer rather than those blocky, deep, couchy jump saddles - then I agree )
    Why is there disbelief at Lucassb's statement? My dressage trainer says that she would rate my mare solid 3rd level schooling some 4th, and my gelding solid 2nd level schooling 3rd. I do all of my lessons in a close contact. Granted, with my mare I ride without stirrups, so stirrup/leg position isn't such of a big deal, but I haven't ever wished for a different saddle on either horse.

    In fact, I finally got myself a dressage saddle that fits mare and I well....rode in it a few times, and back on the shelf it went.

    Now, I do ride in a County Stabilizer on my mare, (as mentioned by you) but my gelding has a County Innovation with huge knee blocks that makes it more of a couchy jump saddle. But I think it's a moot point (more or less), because I think to ride dressage you need to roll your legs out at the hip, drop your legs down, and sink into your base more. There's nothing in most CC saddles to prevent you from doing that. With the dressage saddles I've ridden in, there is a physical "block" so to speak against rotating your thighs/legs in toward the knee and shortening your stirrups a lot.

    To the OP - I do all of my dressage work in CC saddles. I do none of my jumping work in dressage saddles. It's not that I think it would be prohibitively difficult to survive the attempt, but as many have pointed out, in the name of LEARNING to jump I think you would be doing yourself a huge disservice. But with that being said, I'm far from a dressage saddle expert, and perhaps there are those out there that work better than the ones I've sat in.

    And, of course, it goes without saying that a poorly fitted saddle of either type (even if it fits the horse okay) will fight you every step of the way regardless of the type.
    Last edited by PNWjumper; Dec. 1, 2012 at 11:44 AM. Reason: spelling, though my "their" instead of "there" is already captured in quote :)
    __________________________________
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ideayoda View Post
    Utter nonsense, have done it for years....
    Quote Originally Posted by alto View Post
    BUT I also agree with ideayoda's
    Utter nonsense
    It's pretty arrogant to dismiss the majority of the opinions and experiences posted here as utter nonsense. You may have a different opinion, and have had different experiences, but that doesn't make those you disagree with nonsense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Linny View Post
    Those martingales were so taut, you could play Ode to Joy on them with a comb



  5. #65
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    Wink

    I didn't realize I was such a risk taker while jumping my mare over crossrails last year while riding in my......Custom Victory (deemed a couch w/big kneerolls by most here). Who knew I lived on the edge? I was actually quite comfy, didn't get left behind, didn't get jostled, didn't fall off....but had NO idea the danger I was in. Wowsers.



  6. #66
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    DANGER! DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!



  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillyHorse View Post
    It's pretty arrogant to dismiss the majority of the opinions and experiences posted here as utter nonsense. You may have a different opinion, and have had different experiences, but that doesn't make those you disagree with nonsense.
    One superlative begets another - most people were not just reporting personal experience but declaiming ... if I say "nonsense" or "absurd", so what, isn't that also just my opinion which I might theoretically express in whatever way I so choose, perhaps with vehemence, but rather more likely with amusement ...
    at least I've alway understood this to indicate a degree of genuine appreciation of the funny in life.

    As for the majority opinion being somehow more "correct" - well, that is I suppose, your opinion.



  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWjumper View Post
    Why is their disbelief at Lucassb's statement?
    Was that disbelief? I meant as a call out for one of Lucassb's videos of herself & her lovely horse.

    As for my statement regarding the CS vs the CI - that was personal experience shared by 3 different riders in the same saddles on the same horse: all wished for the removal of the rear blocks on the CI & all appreciated the more open, closer contact seat of the CS BUT these were dressage riders that generally ride in fairly open, minimal block dressage saddles.
    Other riders may have entirely different experiences - hence the forum of discussion.

    With the dressage saddles I've ridden in, there is a physical "block" so to speak against rotating your thighs/legs in toward the knee and shortening your stirrups a lot.
    You're correct, jumping in a dressage saddle is not done with a very short stirrup & rider form will certainly differ: not the least because, these are likely dressage riders who only jump once a week or less & the jumps are generally cross rails or verticals & oxers under 3' - all of which sounded rather like the OP's plans for her future horse ...

    Which may (& likely will) change in time, but really, she is going to be OK whether she chooses to begin with a dressage saddle & jump occasionally (& then likely purchase a more purposed saddle should she & her horse decide to pursue jumping rather more seriously) or begin with a jump saddle & do her flatwork or dressage in that (& then likely purchase a more purposed saddle should she & her horse decide to pursue dressage rather more seriously).

    Most posters on this thread were rather adamant that a dressage saddle is either utter crap for jumping or incredibly dangerous for jumping.

    I've posted this video before but watch Jim Elders at the '68 Olympics & look at the saddle at ~1:26 - alot has changed since then - one of my favorites from his interview

    we didn't have any proper training ...you just got on & rode




  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by alto View Post
    Was that disbelief? I meant as a call out for one of Lucassb's videos of herself & her lovely horse.

    As for my statement regarding the CS vs the CI - that was personal experience shared by 3 different riders in the same saddles on the same horse: all wished for the removal of the rear blocks on the CI & all appreciated the more open, closer contact seat of the CS BUT these were dressage riders that generally ride in fairly open, minimal block dressage saddles.
    Other riders may have entirely different experiences - hence the forum of discussion.



    You're correct, jumping in a dressage saddle is not done with a very short stirrup & rider form will certainly differ: not the least because, these are likely dressage riders who only jump once a week or less & the jumps are generally cross rails or verticals & oxers under 3' - all of which sounded rather like the OP's plans for her future horse ...

    Which may (& likely will) change in time, but really, she is going to be OK whether she chooses to begin with a dressage saddle & jump occasionally (& then likely purchase a more purposed saddle should she & her horse decide to pursue jumping rather more seriously) or begin with a jump saddle & do her flatwork or dressage in that (& then likely purchase a more purposed saddle should she & her horse decide to pursue dressage rather more seriously).

    Most posters on this thread were rather adamant that a dressage saddle is either utter crap for jumping or incredibly dangerous for jumping.

    I've posted this video before but watch Jim Elders at the '68 Olympics & look at the saddle at ~1:26 - alot has changed since then - one of my favorites from his interview

    we didn't have any proper training ...you just got on & rode

    I wish I could accommodate you but I'm afraid I don't have any dressage video to offer yet - haven't been anywhere with the requisite equipment. And the few pics I have are from a show, where I used my dressage saddle rather than my close contact.

    However, to your earlier point, my cc saddle is fairly minimalist. It's a Butet, with a flat seat and no blocks of any sort at all. If I lengthen my stirrups, I can fairly easily roll my hips open a bit and put my leg on without difficulty.
    **********
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucassb View Post
    I wish I could accommodate you but I'm afraid I don't have any dressage video to offer yet - haven't been anywhere with the requisite equipment. And the few pics I have are from a show, where I used my dressage saddle rather than my close contact.
    Surprise your dressage instructor by showing up for your next lesson in your Butet - though I think your horse is loving his new saddles so this seems a little selfish of me

    BUT you could jump in the dressage saddle



  11. #71
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    I don't think its dangerous or impossible - but it doesn't make your life any easier trying to jump too big in a dressage saddle. If you are doing absolutely nothing more than hopping over knee high cross rails, then personally I wouldn't go out and buy a jumping saddle just to do that.

    But anything more and yeah I'd tend to agree with the people saying either AP saddle or a hunt seat type (more of a half seat than a flat seat, bit more secure than most flatseats).

    I have both, dressage saddles and jumping saddles and I have to say, I tend to pick the jumping saddle if I'm planning on doing anything more than poles on the ground. Even if I just want to pop over a couple of 2' jumps at the end of a session or something I'll stick the jumping saddle on over the dressage saddle because I'm more than happy to flat school in it, but as a rule I try and avoid jumping in a dressage saddle.



  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by alto View Post
    Surprise your dressage instructor by showing up for your next lesson in your Butet - though I think your horse is loving his new saddles so this seems a little selfish of me

    BUT you could jump in the dressage saddle
    Oh - and I do frequently show up for dressage lessons in a jumping saddle. Instructor doesn't give a hoot. I know that its only little ole NZ and we do things a bit backward and all, but seriously can't imagine why your instructor should get too hung up about you showing up for a dressage lesson in a jumping saddle unless you're riding at about level 4!



  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by alto View Post
    Was that disbelief? I meant as a call out for one of Lucassb's videos of herself & her lovely horse.

    As for my statement regarding the CS vs the CI - that was personal experience shared by 3 different riders in the same saddles on the same horse: all wished for the removal of the rear blocks on the CI & all appreciated the more open, closer contact seat of the CS BUT these were dressage riders that generally ride in fairly open, minimal block dressage saddles.
    Other riders may have entirely different experiences - hence the forum of discussion.



    You're correct, jumping in a dressage saddle is not done with a very short stirrup & rider form will certainly differ: not the least because, these are likely dressage riders who only jump once a week or less & the jumps are generally cross rails or verticals & oxers under 3' - all of which sounded rather like the OP's plans for her future horse ...


    Which may (& likely will) change in time, but really, she is going to be OK whether she chooses to begin with a dressage saddle & jump occasionally (& then likely purchase a more purposed saddle should she & her horse decide to pursue jumping rather more seriously) or begin with a jump saddle & do her flatwork or dressage in that (& then likely purchase a more purposed saddle should she & her horse decide to pursue dressage rather more seriously).

    Most posters on this thread were rather adamant that a dressage saddle is either utter crap for jumping or incredibly dangerous for jumping.

    I've posted this video before but watch Jim Elders at the '68 Olympics & look at the saddle at ~1:26 - alot has changed since then - one of my favorites from his interview

    we didn't have any proper training ...you just got on & rode

    For sure. I look at some of the Oh so pretty pictures of some of the show hunter riders and wonder what would happen at the first bit of less than perfect footing or OMG the horse stumbled. Wait, I know what's gonna happen.... Splat
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by alto View Post
    One superlative begets another - most people were not just reporting personal experience but declaiming ... if I say "nonsense" or "absurd", so what, isn't that also just my opinion which I might theoretically express in whatever way I so choose, perhaps with vehemence, but rather more likely with amusement ...
    at least I've alway understood this to indicate a degree of genuine appreciation of the funny in life.

    As for the majority opinion being somehow more "correct" - well, that is I suppose, your opinion.
    Do you even know what "superlative" means?
    Quote Originally Posted by Linny View Post
    Those martingales were so taut, you could play Ode to Joy on them with a comb



  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dune View Post
    I didn't realize I was such a risk taker while jumping my mare over crossrails last year while riding in my......Custom Victory (deemed a couch w/big kneerolls by most here). Who knew I lived on the edge? I was actually quite comfy, didn't get left behind, didn't get jostled, didn't fall off....but had NO idea the danger I was in. Wowsers.
    You sound just like the people who say, "Hey, we kids always rode around unsecured in the beds of pickup trucks! My father always drove with squirmy two-year-old me in his lap! When I was a toddler I had unrestricted access to the household poisins under the kitchen sink! Danger? What danger? What a bunch of alarmists you all are! I never got hurt, so how could these possibly have been bad ideas?"
    Quote Originally Posted by Linny View Post
    Those martingales were so taut, you could play Ode to Joy on them with a comb



  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by alto View Post
    Surprise your dressage instructor by showing up for your next lesson in your Butet - though I think your horse is loving his new saddles so this seems a little selfish of me

    BUT you could jump in the dressage saddle
    My dressage instructor would not be pleased; I have enough difficulty sitting up as it is

    I did my first few lessons in the Butet though, which is why I know it's fine. (It's not the saddle that's limited, it's the rider.)

    As a matter of fact, I *can* jump in the dressage saddle, and do, once in a while. But it sucks. The balance is completely wrong, and the blocks prevent me from keeping the correct angles in my knee and hip.
    Last edited by Lucassb; Dec. 2, 2012 at 10:32 AM.
    **********
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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillyHorse View Post
    You sound just like the people who say, "Hey, we kids always rode around unsecured in the beds of pickup trucks! My father always drove with squirmy two-year-old me in his lap! When I was a toddler I had unrestricted access to the household poisins under the kitchen sink! Danger? What danger? What a bunch of alarmists you all are! I never got hurt, so how could these possibly have been bad ideas?"
    You're kidding me, right? If not, you really are a Sillyhorse....lol!



  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    For sure. I look at some of the Oh so pretty pictures of some of the show hunter riders and wonder what would happen at the first bit of less than perfect footing or OMG the horse stumbled. Wait, I know what's gonna happen.... Splat
    Oh, please. I could say the same of some dressage riders; there are secure and not-so-secure riders in all disciplines. But you do need a decent amount of balance and security to stay with the horse over fences, and despite your bias, that is true regardless of footing. We don't even always ride in a ring.

    http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...b/97720005.jpg

    http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...oursesmall.jpg

    Of course, sometimes we do...

    http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...reebigoxer.jpg

    http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...eeF1T2copy.jpg
    **********
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    -PaulaEdwina


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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucassb View Post
    Oh, please. I could say the same of some dressage riders; there are secure and not-so-secure riders in all disciplines. But you do need a decent amount of balance and security to stay with the horse over fences, and despite your bias, that is true regardless of footing. We don't even always ride in a ring.

    http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...b/97720005.jpg

    http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...oursesmall.jpg

    Of course, sometimes we do...

    http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...reebigoxer.jpg

    http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...eeF1T2copy.jpg
    I really just quoted this entire thing because I love super Spree. But I also wanted to add that if the horse stumbles, I think some people would be surprised by the impressive gymnastics routines that some of us hunter/jumper riders can perform above the saddle while staying on

    This comes to mind
    and this
    The grand finale

    With that being said, I have jumped in a dressage saddle over about 2'9'' and felt completely out of balance.


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  20. #80
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    This rider is jumping in what looks like a dressage saddle with long stirrups and she didn't look too bad to me (However- I am no judge).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXJcz42Bx0A

    It can be done.



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