[rivenoak]

Do you know if the parents have talked to someone about early intervention programs? I wonder if the "therapy" is coming from someone other than the actual day care provider via something like:

http://dcf.vermont.gov/cdd/cis/paren...ld_development

I'd direct the parents to these folks if not already involved.

I wouldn't visit with them if the parents can't/won't control the child & don't like your manner of correcting him (which seems reasonable to me).

[mvp]

What kind of redirection would you suggest? I'm geniunely intrested. I'm a fairly novice child upbringer. I had a few girls that I nannied who were rather disrespectful, and this was the approach I took with them. It's the same one that I plan on taking with DD. They were 4 and 10, however, neither had any developmental issues.

It's the old philosophy you learned with horses:

"Make the wrong thing hard to do, and the right thing easy."

And

"You meet the horse on his terms, then go from there."

So I think you were right to get eye-ball-to-eye ball with Young Tasmanian Devil and make his world stop for a moment while you explain something simple-- "We.don't.bite." (And personally, screw the Royal We. Just get honest and say "I won't want you to bite me.")

But for every No or Something you take away, you have to give back. So part of what was needed was that "world stopping" so that He Who Could Not Control His Own Mounting Rage had it controlled for him. Then you help him figure out what he does want and the best way to get it.

If a kid can get to the "If/Then" stage, where he at least understands that he can use language or action to do his bidding for him, you are on your way. He might not be able to execute a skilled negotiation, but he does need to know that there is a way within his little reach to get you to do some version of what he wants.

This is what other posters mean by showing him what good behavior does look like. As with the horse, you need to give him a way out, not just say No.

[oldpony66]

OK, I looked up "apraxic". It doesn't seem to have anything to do with his behavior, unless as another poster mentioned he is frustrated with communication. Reading your description of his behavior I'm not quite getting that feeling.

I think you are doing everything right. Five stars to your DH for backing you up. I suppose you could ask his parents exactly what THEY do when he bites or kicks them... do they have ANY plan for this behavior or do they see it as acceptable? Just keep sticking to what you're doing though, eventually maybe he'll at least understand how to behave around YOU.

[tle]

So the only reaction you get from Mr sperm and Ms egg is when YOU correct their demon spawn? And then they poopoo your methods?

They'd be the last people I'd be around and I'd tell them exactly why. I don't care what age a kid is, if they misbehave they need to be told exactly why so that eventually the behavior is corrected. Yes, he's 3 and may be going through a biting phase, but that is NO excuse for the so-called parents to not do a damn thing about it. The behavior is unacceptable regardless of age (it's merely the punishment that is age-related). Good for you for standing up to him... and them. Not to mention controlling your own feelings enough not to slap the demon into next week.

[candyappy]

I disagree with the "Spare the rod" saying. My girls are very well behaved and I get comments frequently on how good they are, and I have NEVER spanked them. It doesn't mean they don't have consequences for their actions, it just means that they are not spanked.

I don't care if people choose to spank their child, it's none of my business, but that saying does bother me, because it's just not true. I've seen children who are spanked that are still little shits, and children who have never been spanked that are great kids.

OP I think it's awesome that your husband is backing you up. You are not doing anything that seems out of line IMO, because you only intervene when it affects you or your immediate family. Your daughter has every right to not be harmed by her cousin. I'd start backing out of family functions if necessary.

Some kids never need a spanking. My one brother was a " self punisher". My other brother and I deserved what we got and I can tell you I would have been a wreck without the proper discipline that I required.

Your kids and many others don't need a spanking and that is great. I never enjoyed it , but it worked at the right time for me and many others. Society has gone way overboard on the whole parenting thing and treating these kids like little adults. They are not adults and trying to use reason and talking as discipline only doesn't work. That was were my comment was going.

[mvp]

A

One hand on your little girl and the boy is toast. Terrorize his little dysfunctional brains out of him.

Yes, but the beating may do buggar all to reform the behavior of this dysfunctional kid. You'll get your arm tired, that's all.

[mvp]

Your kids and many others don't need a spanking and that is great. I never enjoyed it , but it worked at the right time for me and many others. Society has gone way overboard on the whole parenting thing and treating these kids like little adults. They are not adults and trying to use reason and talking as discipline only doesn't work. That was were my comment was going.

I think a spanking is a nice arrow to have in one's quiver. As in "Don't make me open the missile silo doors because, so help me, I'll do mutually assured destruction and find it totally worth it."

But note that it only works if you already taught the art of escalation and de-escalation. And a little "my parent's head is capable of spinning around backwards" reputation helps, too.

[subk]

This is a parenting problem not a behavior problem. My husband and I on occasions would babysit my horrid little niece and nephew (they turned out great, but were monsters when they were little!) When they were in our home without their parents around they were fine, but the moment mom and dad showed up it was like flipping the brat switch.

I would make it very clear to the MIL and the SIL that you will tolerate anything BUT physical aggression to you or your child and THEY can immediately respond to his aggression by either physically removing him from the room or you will use a verbal reprimand. Not wanting your child assaulted by another child is reasonable and expecting a parent to respond to it is also reasonable. I would would tell them exactly that if they have a problem with your request. Be up front and tell them this before something happens and if they can't accommodate you tell them you'll need to find another time to visit.

Also, avoid using the word "not" or negative contractions like don't or shouldn't with young children. It's a verbal positive turned into a negative with a single word and can be mis-understood by a less than verbally developed brain as: "blah, blah, blah bite me!" Stick with straight negative verbiage: "NO biting!"

I agree with giving your hubby a cookie--maybe even something better!

[BuddyRoo]

This will not be a helpful post...but perhaps it will make you laugh.

So I was leasing a farm. I had my horses there.

BO was a nice older lady...her grandkids came to visit along with their wacky new agey parents.

Kids wanted to see the pretty ponies. FIne.

Kids come out while I'm there. I say, "NO!" loudly as they run into pasture. I tell them "You must stay with me."

I was then corrected by the mother that I must NEVER tell her children NO.

"It's an abusive word" she said.

WTF?

So I explained staying close to the horse, not running, not screaming.

THey started running and screaming and I yelled "NO!!!! STOP! FREEZE!!!!"

Mom grabs me again and says, "You may NOT tell MY children NO!!"

And I said, "Then get the hell out of the pasture I'm paying for and stay out because I'm not going to be liable for the fact that you can't control your own kids."

It didn't really go well with HER but Grandma, the one I was leasing from, thought it was hilarious.

No one had told her daughter NO before either.

Safety and welfare. I'll take that above being "nice".

All this "friendly parenting". It's not PARENTING. I'm sorry. It's not.

[SmartAlex]

Both my SIL and MIL got angry with me for making him cry.

You handled the kid just fine. What you need is help handling the rest of the family...

Time for a speech in the order of "Restrain your child or I will act as I see fit"

[hastyreply]

My daughter was very firm with her DH's nieces and nephew when it came to herself and her dogs. To the point there were family objections so she just stayed away. Those children now adore her! She ended up going to one's birthday party and the little girl told her mom "It was such a treat to have Aunt N here". So her revenge or punishment is that they seek her out at any family gathering and are very disappointed when she's not there.

[Stushica]

I think you did great... and your husband sounds wonderful, I believe they should just be glad that your a lot nicer than a lot of other people, myself included

[Superminion]

Thanks for the ideas, information, and support y'all!

I have a lot of good ideas now, and I feel a lot better knowing that I'm not really doing anything wrong. Handling other peoples monsters can be a PITA. DH wants to read this thread, and we're going to have a sit down with them (SIL/MIL... my BIL is never around) to chat. I'm so thankful that DH is going to present a united front with me.

I feel bad, almost like saying, 'you suck at this' to his Mom, when who knows what else is going on. I can see how they are overwhelmed with him, not that it's an excuse. I know that I would be. It's given me the determination to keep DD's 'tude in check as she gets older, if nothing else!

[Capall]

Some kids never need a spanking. My one brother was a " self punisher". My other brother and I deserved what we got and I can tell you I would have been a wreck without the proper discipline that I required.

Your kids and many others don't need a spanking and that is great. I never enjoyed it , but it worked at the right time for me and many others. Society has gone way overboard on the whole parenting thing and treating these kids like little adults. They are not adults and trying to use reason and talking as discipline only doesn't work. That was were my comment was going.

I think you misunderstood... I said I don't have an issue with people spanking their own kids, I just don't like the saying "Spare the rod spoil the child" because I think it's misleading. It's just one of those old sayings that doesn't sit right with me. Sorry if I wasn't clear and if you felt I was attacking you, because that was not my intention

[tpup]

If he has apraxia, he is probably biting because he can't communicate! (and throwing things, and being obnoxious). Apraxia is a very frustrating condition. He needs early intervention NOW. I feel bad for him, especially if his parents are kind of clueless.

I would definitely share the early intervention info with them - hopefully they can get him evaluated - the sooner the better. It will only get worse.

You did the right thing - I always say "it takes a village"! I also wholeheartedly agree with the post that said to treat him how you would want your child disciplined if he/she acted that way around other adults.

[mvp]

I feel bad, almost like saying, 'you suck at this' to his Mom, when who knows what else is going on. I can see how they are overwhelmed with him, not that it's an excuse. I know that I would be. It's given me the determination to keep DD's 'tude in check as she gets older, if nothing else!

Well, she does suck at parenting... only because her strategy to date is to have no one make kiddo cry, and then to get mad at the adult who does. The point is that she's controlling the person she can, not undertaking the harder task of bringing Young Toothman under control.

She probably has credible reasons for doing more placating than parenting. The apraxia and a life that necessitates that a 3-year-old have a day job (going to daycare for the length of an adult's shift *is* a job!) make this no walk in the park.

[cowboymom]

I was the only one that understood a word my son said until he was about 8 or 9 and he's never hurt another creature in his life.

I think this boy is just reflecting what has been his M.O. his whole life.

I'd just steer clear of him as much as you can; if the rest of the family isn't on board you can't do much.

[hasahorse]

Wow, this sounds like my sister and the monster she has created. My niece is now 7, and a holy terror. While she does not have any of the developmental delays that are described above, she has absolutely no boundaries. God forbid if you tell her no.
I am the mean aunt because I require a level of decorum and behavior when she is around me, even when on her own turf. Stick to your guns. And good for you that your husband is backing you up with his family.

[Crackerdog]

OP, you handled things just right in my opinion. Direct, on the kid's level, short words, forceful tone. I don't think there really is anything you could have done better. Since you have your husband's support I would, for my own stress level and the sake of dd, limit visiting these particular relatives at least until dd is older.

[Superminion]

If he has apraxia, he is probably biting because he can't communicate! (and throwing things, and being obnoxious). Apraxia is a very frustrating condition. He needs early intervention NOW. I feel bad for him, especially if his parents are kind of clueless.

I would definitely share the early intervention info with them - hopefully they can get him evaluated - the sooner the better. It will only get worse.

You did the right thing - I always say "it takes a village"! I also wholeheartedly agree with the post that said to treat him how you would want your child disciplined if he/she acted that way around other adults.

DH said that he's presented them with intervention info, after speaking with my Mom (she's a Speech Pathologist). They insist that he's getting all the help that he needs at daycare and he'll be fine until he goes to school. I'm not sure if they are overtaxed or just that clueless to what the real problem is.

They are going to be in for a world of trouble when the new baby comes. He's worse the more attention that his Mom gives my daughter, because he wants the attention.

I wonder a little bit if they are trying the 'ignore the bad behavior' tactic (it's not working).

DH also pointed out that his family is very much into boundries and disciplining children is a big one, which is why my MIL doesn't do it. It's not her job so she doesn't do it. The fact that I took matters into my own hands by telling him no, was shocking to everybody. (I wonder how DH made it out as normal as he did!) In my family, if we acted out anybody had permission to back hand us. It was as simple as that.

My argument to that is that when he starts hitting him, our daughter, or I he's crossed my boundary and I'm going to act as I see fit. He's not going to be emotionally scarred forever because I got after him about kicking my 9 month old.