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  1. #1
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    Nov. 12, 2011
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    Default More control while jumping

    My WB currently goes in a full cheek slow twist. He is perfect with flat work. When we jump though, he tends to get very speedy. He will ignore me completely over fences. Before a fence, he escapes the bit by putting his head high, and after a fence, he tucks and runs. I can stay with him; it's not a fear thing. I need more control though. Suggestions?

    My BO has a Waterford bit that I was considering trying out on him. I've read that they aren't terribly harsh and they prevent a horse from leaning on the bit. Any and all tips welcome!
    "A horse gallops with his lungs, perseveres with his heart, and wins with his character." - Tesio



  2. #2
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    Apr. 27, 2009
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    Default

    Try the Waterford for sure - that may help your problems on landing. Are you using any version of a martingale to discourage the head action before the fence?



  3. #3
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    Apr. 19, 2011
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    I have similar issue. My trainer is bringing a Sagunda to my next lesson to see how he goes in it. I'll let you know how that goes
    Southern Cross Guest Ranch
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  4. #4
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    Feb. 5, 2012
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    Maryland
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    Default

    I have the before jump problem, my horse is new to jumping (working with a trainer) and he's started running to the jumps and putting his head up to evade the bit since we've begun cantering. He flats perfect in a snaffle.
    I've used my trainers mikmar combination bit with the reins on the nose rope and it has done wonders. He can no longer throw his head up and he will listen to my hand, although he does get pissy and curl towards the end of the lesson when he gets tired.
    I tried a martingale, standing, and he broke the noseband. So far haven't found anything show legal, but figure for now he can at least learn how to properly carry himself to a jump. Might try a rubber Mullen Pelham.



  5. #5
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    Mar. 5, 2009
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    Default

    Definitely try the Waterford. I've had some nice success with this. You might also think about going with a Pelham - if you're comfortable with the double reins, & can use it tactfully, it can really give you the "whoa" you need without getting too much in the horse's face.



  6. #6
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    Dec. 26, 2000
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    Default

    Are you working with a trainer? That might help...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
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    Jul. 1, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by OveroHunter View Post
    I have similar issue. My trainer is bringing a Sagunda to my next lesson to see how he goes in it. I'll let you know how that goes
    Segunda's scare the poo out of me. Tried it once on my horse, now mind you he is very sensitive in the mouth but can also curl and lean, so we thought I might be able to be really light in the hand yet have response. One of the scariest rides of my life. I could NOT touch the reins at all which gave me zero control as he would react like crazy to the bit. Be very careful trying a segunda.



  8. #8
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    Mar. 29, 2004
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    Stevensville, MD, USA
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    Default

    Have you tried a running martingale on him? That has helped my horse from throwing his head up before the jump, along with me leaving him alone before the jump. He also tends to pick up speed after the lines, making sure I am sitting up and giving the half halt to get him off his forehand is a challenge but a necessity! The bit that works best for him so far is the Dr. Bristol. I may try a dr. bristol/slow twist combo for the show ring. The segunda was way too much for him several years ago but I would be interested to see his reaction to it now that I have much better hands/contact.



  9. #9
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    Jun. 30, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donkerbruin View Post
    My WB currently goes in a full cheek slow twist. He is perfect with flat work. When we jump though, he tends to get very speedy. He will ignore me completely over fences. Before a fence, he escapes the bit by putting his head high, and after a fence, he tucks and runs. I can stay with him; it's not a fear thing.
    except it does sound like a fear thing - for your horse!
    what does he do in a jump chute? or when lunged over jumps (only do this if he's already well trained & secure on the lunge)?

    How did he do with his pole work, cavaletties, cross rails? I can't discern from your post if your horse has just started jump training or he's an old hand at 3' & this has started with bigger jumps ...



  10. #10
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    Jun. 17, 2001
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    down the road from bar.ka
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    Default

    Need more info here to make any kind of well thought out and specific recommendation.

    But, honestly, something is wrong if he gets himself inverted and rushy despite "perfect" flatwork. Something else going on there to make him resent or get defensive and ignore your aids when he goes over a fence.

    Simply changing a bit is not going to solve that particular package of evasion and, maybe, discomfort and a little dread.

    And no I don't think they all should go in a rubber snaffle any more then going to more bit is going to change an underlying training, riding, saddle or pain problem.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


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  11. #11
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    Aug. 1, 2007
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    Anyone who knows me knows I am a HUGE fan of the Waterford. It's my go-to bit for almost every horse who needs "just a little something extra". It's gentle (of course, any bit can be harsh in the wrong hand - I know, I know), but firm. And the horse can't lean on it, which is just the cat's pjs.

    Segundas scare the poo out of me, too. I have no experience riding with one, but even just the look of it freaks me out.
    Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.



  12. #12
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    Nov. 22, 2010
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    Where they've got all Hell for a basement
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    I used to ride my mare in a waterford as well. It worked pretty well, until I discovered The Perfect Bit (that's literally what it's called). Getting a hold of one is a nightmare, but if you can, it will change your life.

    Re: Segundas - again, be very careful. My horse can be obnoxiously dead in the mouth sometimes and will tow me over the jumps. We've used a segunda on a few occasions as a "tune-up" tool, but I have to be very conscious of what I'm doing and it would not be something I'd use either a) on a regular basis or b) in the wrong hands. Those things are strong and can produce a VERY intense reaction from a horse who has never had one in its mouth before.



  13. #13
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    Oct. 7, 2010
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    Default

    Count me in as a member of the "segundas scare the poo out of me club", too.

    I am a fan of the twisted dr. bristol. I think it provides control and lift for those who like to tuck a bit, but isn't too harsh for those with sensitive mouth. Another bit I had luck with on a sensitive mouth with a bit of a curling issue is the ported Myler, I think it is level 3? I don't use it with hooks.

    I have found that sometimes, you may need to break the problem down into parts and use different bits to help you through each issue. You might find that bit A helps you do the work that fixes the first problem and bit B helps you work through the second problem and bit C helps you put it all together. At least I find it to be a way to justify all the bits and bridles I have hanging in the tack room

    Also, I think findeight's advice, as usual is spot on. Sounds like there might be other things to address, in addition to the bitting issue.



  14. #14
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    Apr. 19, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElisLove View Post
    Segunda's scare the poo out of me. Tried it once on my horse, now mind you he is very sensitive in the mouth but can also curl and lean, so we thought I might be able to be really light in the hand yet have response. One of the scariest rides of my life. I could NOT touch the reins at all which gave me zero control as he would react like crazy to the bit. Be very careful trying a segunda.
    That's why I'm not buying one just yet. My lesson is on Friday and my trainer is supposed to bring it with her so we'll see. I think finding his perfect bit is going to be a bit of a challenge. He's definitely an interesting horse to ride.
    Southern Cross Guest Ranch
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  15. #15
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    Nov. 12, 2011
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    Well, my horse is 17. My trainers imported him from Holland when he was 4. He was supposed to be a big sale for them. He's so big and beautiful. Extremely talented.

    The horse ended up not being a sale at all for my trainers. People would come try him out, then take him on trial for a couple weeks. He would begin stopping at fences, bolting, and of course running at the jumps just like I am describing. And so, no one would ever buy him.

    Trainers tried EVERYTHING to figure out what was wrong with this horse. Obviously regular vet, chiropractor, acupuncture, massage, saddle fit, different riders. Had his eyes checked to make sure he could see the jumps. They even had an animal communicator come talk to him. He told her that he wants to do dressage to music.

    So, my trainers kept him as a more advanced lesson horse, and ended up giving him to me a few years ago. Having graduated from college now, I have more time to give him and think that riding him confidently on a consistent basis will be really good for him. But I seriously need more control before and after fences.

    Think I will try out the Waterford this weekend. I don't think my horse would tolerate a Segunda very well. He can get light in his front end too easily.

    ETA: He has been shown up to 3'6".
    "A horse gallops with his lungs, perseveres with his heart, and wins with his character." - Tesio



  16. #16
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    Jun. 22, 2001
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    Coatesville, Pa.
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Donkerbruin View Post
    They even had an animal communicator come talk to him. He told her that he wants to do dressage to music.
    Look I am no genius, but has anyone had a dressage rider in to try him to see if in fact doing what "he wants" might in fact be his best calling???

    ~Emily
    "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries



  17. #17
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    Oh I think he'd be a fabulous dressage horse! I'm not much of a dressage rider myself, but am hoping to pick it up. I would really love for him to be able to jump around though, too.
    "A horse gallops with his lungs, perseveres with his heart, and wins with his character." - Tesio



  18. #18
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    Jun. 30, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donkerbruin View Post
    He would begin stopping at fences, bolting, and of course running at the jumps just like I am describing.

    Trainers tried EVERYTHING to figure out what was wrong with this horse. Obviously regular vet, chiropractor, acupuncture, massage, saddle fit, different riders. Had his eyes checked to make sure he could see the jumps. They even had an animal communicator come talk to him. He told her that he wants to do dressage to music.
    Spinal Xrays? Neck Xrays?
    this just sounds like a pain reaction to me ... but he's a nice boy so he tries & a strong, consistent rider will likely get him around a course, anyone less determined & he stops etc.

    Horses should jump because they love to jump, it's too hard on their body to jump just because ...

    How happy does he look in a jump chute?

    Dressage will develop alot of muscles/fitness that may help him with jumping - & vice versa



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