[joiedevie99]

I assume you're in CA based on the posts, but we have the East Coast Pony Cup in NY: http://www.centerlineevents.com/ECPC%20rules.pdf. Still has to measure a pony though.

If your 'pony' is a horse, there is a parallel class for that: http://www.centerlineevents.com/ECRC%20rules.pdf

There is also the National Dressage Pony Cup: http://www.nationaldressageponycup.com/. There is a test of choice class for oversized ponies, but I don't think they can do the main competition.

[goodpony]

The part about height is INcorrect,

I may be confused with the FEI Rules--which has some strange accommodations for measuring ponies. I cannot locate anything more current than what is below. If anyone has new documentation or amendments it would be good to know. This is not for USEF measurement.

As of 2008: The FEI's definition of a pony still is, "a small horse whose height at the withers, having been measured on a smooth level surface, does not exceed 148 cm without shoes or 149 cm with shoes."Pony Measurement

• All ponies competing at the CH- EU-P will be measured on site before starting the competition. Random testing at various CDI-P may also take place.
• The FEI definition of a pony is in accordance with A rticle 3103.1.
• Nevertheless, to allow for the f ct that FEI pony measurement takes place under competition conditions ponies measured at competition must not exceed 150cm without shoes or 151cm with shoes in o rde r to be permitted to compete.
• Where FEI Pony Measurement is to be carried out before the Horse Inspection, the period of an Event shall commence with the first Pony Measurement. Such provision shall prevail over the General Regulations.

[honeylips]

While the CDS high score pony award at each show is to the highest pony (not segregated by Open/AA) - the CDS END OF YEAR pony awards are split up by rider category and level (training level and up). Ponies must have a valid USEF Dressage Pony card (this is different than an USEF Hunter Pony card).

[mbm]

well dang - for the first time i wish Rebs was 148cm!

[alicen]

Did you guys know that Seldom Seen was not allowed to compete in the Olympics because of his size

It wasn't that he wasn't allowed to compete, they did participate in a selection trial , but he wasn't selected because, so it was said, he was deemed not competitive enough for European judges' sensibilities. I think that was 1984 and the Los Angeles Olympics?

[mbm]

basically, as i heard the story, he was not selected due to his height. "They" (the FEI dudes) felt it would not be fair for him to complete against the big guys - and as i heard it - it was the Europeans that were not happy with him competing....

[goodpony]

While the CDS high score pony award at each show is to the highest pony (not segregated by Open/AA) - the CDS END OF YEAR pony awards are split up by rider category and level (training level and up). Ponies must have a valid USEF Dressage Pony card (this is different than an USEF Hunter Pony card).

At the beginning of the CDS High Score Pony Program it was not split---it has obviously changed and a good thing too!

[alicen]

basically, as i heard the story, he was not selected due to his height. "They" (the FEI dudes) felt it would not be fair for him to complete against the big guys - and as i heard it - it was the Europeans that were not happy with him competing....

The FEI dudes don't choose the USA Olympic team. Look, I was rooting for the little guy, too, but a lot didn't happen in their test: I was disappointed. And what do Europeans being happy or not have to do with it?

The simple truth: if you're little and you want to be competitive, you have to be good and can't make mistakes.

[honeylips]

If you have your Dec 2011 Dressage Letters, on page 27 is the HUGE list of pony competitors for CDS and the year end award winners in AA- Open - Jr

[mbm]

The FEI dudes don't choose the USA Olympic team. Look, I was rooting for the little guy, too, but a lot didn't happen in their test: I was disappointed. And what do Europeans being happy or not have to do with it?

The simple truth: if you're little and you want to be competitive, you have to be good and can't make mistakes.

i am pretty sure the reason the size rule was introduced was to keep him out.... but i might have that part wrong. i think the feeling was that he was not competitive and couldn't play with the big guys .....

i just thought it was an interesting "aside" since we were talking about honies and all....

i am editing this to say i would not be surprised to find out that a lot of who competes in the Olympics is political in nature..... so the Seldom Seen story may be apocryphal ... but it wouldn't surprise me if it were true.

[Dressage_Diva333]

Am I reading it right that ponies are not allowed to compete in CDI's? That doesn't make sense.... Or is it only if they are carded pony. What if one were never to go through the pony measuring and just have them compete with the big guys? Just curious?

[poltroon]

They really don't need their own classes, they REALLY don't. Maybe for kids to become more interested, but even then, you have the junior division which is enough. The classes in general are just not that big.

The most competitive show I've done with my pony is actually the West Coast Connemara Show. We've won against the warmbloods but not against 8+ really nice ponies!

[honeylips]

Yes - it is true that a pony cannot compete in a CDI - other than in a CDI-P (with a Jr rider).
It's not possible to "sneak" into a CDI. All CDI horses must have an FEI passport -that requires the veterinarian completing the form to do an official height. The passport must be presented at the jog to the ground jury and at the show office.

[mbm]

Anyone know why ponies can't compete in CDI's is it really because of Seldom Seen ? when did the rule come into effect?

I think it is a bit unfair actually.....

[exvet]

mbm - I have to ask, what purpose would a hony award/division or class serve? I think it's grand to get awards and such; but, I think most of us believe that the honies can be and often are competitive in good company. It might take more work and more accuracy to get the same consideration; but, in the end the wheat and chaff are separated not by height but either by gaits and/or correct training. Sometimes we see one get rewarded over the other for right or wrong....don't want to get into "that" debate; but, I guess I would rather be third in a mixed group than first in a group of "those who didn't make height - too tall for one, too short for the other".

We each have a pony breed that we know can go over (in height) and with that you have to decide if the horse and it's merits are still of value. All-Breeds is nice especially if you actively participate - show/train/breed/sell - that breed. At least you sort of can compare apples to apples within a discipline but in reality you can win the award without having or being "the best." Ask me how I know While I get the whole height thing in my former discipline of choice (jumping/hunters), I personally see no added value in dressage with going into a division or being compared against "only" morgans, arabians, quarter horses, etc and oversized pony breeds.

Your horse should do fine against others. If you are interested in breed specific awards, great; but, I guess I would have to say that while I could likely fill a hony class with my own stock, you won't find me spending money on one. For years I wanted to be taken seriously on my Arabian and found success in both open and breed restricted venues. Most valued what I won in the open shows more (but I sure still do love those nice big purty ribbons you get at Scottsdale and the plaques that went with them). I don't have that option with the Welsh Cobs but truth be told, why would I?

[mbm]

oh I don't know.... my trainer asked me if there were pony /connemara specific shows/classes so it got me thinking.... and we all know that is dangerous lol!

anyway, i was feeling a bit "left out" since there are pony specific awards but my pony isn't qualified since he is too tall lol!

anyway, i totally agree that training is what matters and we are working hard and hopefully will be able to do our best as we progress.... a WB he ain't but hard working? check . huge heart ? check.... nice canter? check.... cute pony ears? double check!

i will look into what we will need to do to qualify for all breeds, and the myriad of other awards listed above.

go ponies!
(even the ones that are too tall : ) )

btw here is a recent pic of my pony - it's blurry but shows how cute he is

Rebel

[poltroon]

Yes - it is true that a pony cannot compete in a CDI - other than in a CDI-P (with a Jr rider).
It's not possible to "sneak" into a CDI. All CDI horses must have an FEI passport -that requires the veterinarian completing the form to do an official height. The passport must be presented at the jog to the ground jury and at the show office.

On the other hand, the hunter pony people are full of tricks to get them to 'measure' below a certain height. Reverse them all and it's reputed you can add an inch, maybe even a bit more, to the measured height.

Stroller (the 1968 show jumping individual Olympic silver medalist) was a pony until he magically "grew" when Marion turned 18.

I don't believe Seldom Seen actually measured as a pony. He would have been very close to the line but IIRC he was 14.2 1/2.

[honeylips]

Dressage pony cards are in CM. They can be 149cm with shoes. That is 14.2 hands and 5/8ths of an inch. So 14.2 1/2 plus a whisker.

[exvet]

He is cute but I think we both already knew that

I do believe I know how you feel especially the left out part. Heck on Arabs I was always told, well at least he doesn't move like an Arab in the open shows. At the Arab shows the dressage arenas are always in the worst location, farthest out from the real action for us red-headed step children to use. Welsh Cobs, well, they ain't a horse, they ain't a pony (well unless in the US and they are 14.2 and under - got 3 of those) I'm told to stuff it 'cause they're cobs; but, in the US what the hell does that mean? - nada.

I say if you've got heart, an engine, and a pure canter, well, what's stoppin' ya? only yourself. The cute ears don't hurt either at least with the crowd. You two will do fine. I keep sayin' Ever have doubt...... just look at what a short-necked down hill, sway back welsh cob can do with an old bag on his back I have yet to hear of an award for that; but, he keeps me smilin' especially with the 70 we got at PSG yesterday. Schooling show only, R eventing judge, but for a brief moment it almost made me want to switch disciplines Then I could hear the DQs in my head Still think I might frame that test just because

[poltroon]

Hey, at some of these shows anything under 16 hands is going to get coos from the crowd about, "hey, check out the cool pony!" It's fun to have a distinctive partner.

The Connemara people will happily claim you at whatever height he is, and the WCCS show has been very fun when I've gone, worth the trip down to Twin Rivers.

(I think there may be some spiff Connemara saddle pads too, if you're so inclined.)