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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Sep. 21, 2001
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    Parker, Colorado
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    2,634

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    I am deleting this as I did not intend to raise a ruckus or offend anyone. Happy riding, all!
    Last edited by rhymeswithfizz; Dec. 4, 2012 at 06:42 PM.
    where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?


    6 members found this post helpful.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2012
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    4,164

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSwan View Post
    The practice of "blooding" or "blooding ritual" goes back thousands of years and can be found in many different cultures. Regardless of the time in history, or the culture, there is a commonality in the ritual.

    Respect for the animal and acknowledgment of the value of its life (in most cases because that animal had to die in order to feed the hunter and his family).

    Similar rituals exist in religious ceremonies as well (the blood and body of Christ in the Eucharist, for example). These ceremonies, and the profound meanings behind them - go back thousands of years. In no way are those ceremonies ever to be seen as disrepectful. They aren't. You think they are because that's what you want to believe. The cultural anthropology of religious and quasi religious rituals is well documented. Google Scholar is your friend.

    Since you obviously know nothing about sport, you're writing from a position of total ignorance. You have a choice. You can become educated, or you can continue to look the fool.

    In the US, hunts go years without a kill - and when the kill occurs it is a quick snap to the neck. Usually the fox is old or sick (mange is a horrible affliction that kills a fox slowly and painfully). The goal is to chase - not to kill. But if one occurs it is merely a quick end to what otherwise would be a prolonged illness and death.

    I understand the meaning behind the practice of blooding, and don't think it is barbaric at all. Then again, I'm not some cossested urbanite living in a condo - so far removed from the natural world that I think Disney films are documentaries.

    Rabies is another common affliction where I live - I'd decline to be blooded for that reason.

    Foxhunters have more respect and concern for the welfare of foxes than the motorist who runs over one - and keeps going.

    So please spare me the hysterical outrage.
    THIS, 100%! And if anyone would like to read a truly beautiful book about the history of hunting, you can do no better than Rupert Isaacson's The Wild Host: The History and Meaning of the Hunt. Published by The Derrydale Press, 2001.

    Wonderful read with a warm glass by the fireside after a day in the field--and most definitely a cure for ignorance.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Oct. 1, 2005
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    6,228

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    I cannot add any value to J Swan's excellent post.

    But- rhymes- I am on the road yet again tomorrow morning, but if you will pm me your email address, I'll take a picture tonight w/iPhone of the pad I have mounted downstairs which might give you a good reference point for discussions w/taxidermist.

    I also have a lovely shoulder mount of the 'Pig Road Vixen.' For you squeamish naysayers: You might be interested to know that this was a particularly beloved vixen who had her litters in the hunt kennels horse pasture and we watched them grow every summer. She could be relied upon for a particularly good run when we hunted from kennels for oh, 5 years if memory serves. The average life expectancy of a red fox in the wild is 2.5 years. So a reasonable person might conclude that being hunted by hounds is not life-shortening for foxes. Very much to the contrary.

    So why is she on my wall, you might ask? Because we found her dead in the ditch near kennels- and yes we did know her well enough to know exactly which fox she was. She'd been shot with a 22 and someone had taken her brush. I took the rest and had her mounted out of sentimentality. And I'll happily send pics of that mount if anyone is interested, as well. But you'll need to pm your email to me and I'll do it as time allows while on travel.


    15 members found this post helpful.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Nov. 10, 2008
    Location
    Gillett PA
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    246

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    So the OP was blooded...yay! Coyotes are a nusaince. We have a pack of them running here on the "patch" (4 adjoining landowners who hunt deer).

    A week ago Monday a novice deer hunter (my daughter) shot at her first buck. Unfortunately it was not a clean kill and he ran off. Hubby and sons looked for this deer along with adjoing landowners being well aware there was one wounded.

    To make the week long saga short the nice 10 point buck was found yesterday with his rear quarters devoured...ya want pics...it's gross! The rest of our deer herd has been very nervous all week. Now we know why...we have a bunch of 'yotes running our woods. They got a free meal and now next springs fawns will be in danger because the coyotes will stay.

    So those of you who feel fox/coyote hunting is cruel...they are predators, plain and simple and once out of control they need to be thinned out. Looks like I will be stomping thru the beaver pond looking for deer carcasses from other bad shots and baiting in the coyotes as soon as rifle season closes.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Dec. 16, 2006
    Posts
    107

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    Really, you want to see what happens when animals get shot? Take a look...

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=50f_1354180792


    10 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Sanger, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,856

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    Major Mark, that link was hilarious! Can't believe folks taught their cats to play dead. The hamster won...no hesitation or a you want me to do what look.
    Julie
    www.centaurfencing.com
    Safer, Stronger, Lasts Longer!
    Godspeed BARBARO--Run fast and free!


    4 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Nov. 10, 2008
    Location
    Gillett PA
    Posts
    246

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    Wow. I can't believe that 4 of 7 disliked my post.

    For those of you who live in your sanitized world, hunting is a necessay end to over population of God's animals. Humans survived for thousands of years hunting...and, heaven forbid, humans hunted horses also.

    Next time you are on the freeway at night and a huge deer decides he wants to cross the road and collides with your imported SUV and come thru the windshield you might think twice about hunting...might give you something to think about while you are in the ER getting glass chips removed from your face.

    How about your precious housepets? What will happen to them when the suburban sprall takes over wildlife habitats and the yipping coy-dogs decide that Fluffy or Tinkerbelle will be taken to feed their young? Have you ever seen what a pack of coyotes will do to a horses hind end?

    I get the fact that many people want to stick their heads in the sand and pretend it doesn't affect them...it may not today or tomorrow. Maybe not even next year but it is happening...it is happening now in some cities right now.

    DISCLAIMER: gruesome pic. Not for the faint of heart
    This is coyote damage. Yes deer was wounded but did the coyotes find him before or after he died?
    http://empacc.net/~npamadmax/deer.1000a.jpg
    Last edited by tazz001; Dec. 3, 2012 at 10:35 PM. Reason: add link


    6 members found this post helpful.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2007
    Location
    Beside Myself ~ Western NY
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    6,759

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    Quote Originally Posted by tazz001 View Post
    For those of you who live in your sanitized world, hunting is a necessay end to over population of God's animals. Humans survived for thousands of years hunting...and, heaven forbid, humans hunted horses also.

    Next time you are on the freeway at night and a huge deer decides he wants to cross the road and collides with your imported SUV and come thru the windshield you might think twice about hunting...
    If people continue to turn away from hunting, we're going to have bring back the big cats and wolves to control the deer population. Just think how happy THAT would make the cossested condoed urbanites...


    7 members found this post helpful.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2012
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    4,164

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    I think the varmints are BECOMING "cosseted urbanites!"

    Just this morning my dogs started going nuts while I was haying, and there was Charles James the Grey going in one of my run-ins after salt! He didn't bother leaving when I went in the front door after more hay, either. Finally went on his way when he'd checked the whole barn out to his satisfaction and I wouldn't be surprised if the mice in there aren't his fast-food source every night, along with dropped Calf Manna and pellets.

    The other night I went to pick up one of those flat rubber feeding bowls and jumped about 6 feet because a 30-lb. raccoon was sitting in it! With the horse still tied there having just finished eating, I have no doubt this guy was helping him with dinner. He looked at me like, "Hey, I'm not done yet!" and barely backed off when I clapped my hands at him.

    None of these are sick, I might add--just a little "over-familiar!"


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2007
    Location
    Beside Myself ~ Western NY
    Posts
    6,759

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    Yeah, our varmits are over familiar too. I've done the math. I pay taxes on 91 acres of varied natural habitat. Of that, I only expect them to stay off 2% that I save for my own use. I am constantly having to 'splain to them which 2% that is.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2004
    Location
    Central Mass.
    Posts
    245

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    I've been hunting for some time now...and we have never killed anything...I for one would not want to be part of that...tradition or not...I love being out there and watching the hounds work...that's our goal..I didnt realize that hunts acutally did that...


    9 members found this post helpful.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    318

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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Mark View Post
    Really, you want to see what happens when animals get shot? Take a look...

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=50f_1354180792
    OMG! Hilarious, and ALL politics/ethics/position statements regarding Foxhunting, Hunting, Gun Control, etc..., aside, that video was so funny!!! The person who "trained" the cats and the guinea pig definitely has some talent...
    Gleann Oighrig LLC
    Showing, Sales, Breeding, and Boarding
    Manakin-Sabot, Virginia


    4 members found this post helpful.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2007
    Location
    San Jose, Ca
    Posts
    5,116

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    Quote Originally Posted by tazz001 View Post
    .
    To make the week long saga short the nice 10 point buck was found yesterday with his rear quarters devoured...ya want pics...it's gross! The rest of our deer herd has been very nervous all week. Now we know why...we have a bunch of 'yotes running our woods. They got a free meal and now next springs fawns will be in danger because the coyotes will stay.

    So those of you who feel fox/coyote hunting is cruel...they are predators, plain and simple and once out of control they need to be thinned out. Looks like I will be stomping thru the beaver pond looking for deer carcasses from other bad shots and baiting in the coyotes as soon as rifle season closes.
    I do not quite understand – Does your area have a lack of deer? Seems like most areas have the opposite problem, that there are too many deer. Aren’t most deer over populations due to lack of predators / lack of land? Why not let the predators flourish and thin the deer population?

    And I know, I must have grown up in a condo (not town with a pop. of 500, surrounded by wildlands and agriculture). We have lots of deer here, a bit too many for my liking when it comes to driving home at night, but not too many that the population’s health has been impacted. We also have predators here as well though, mountain lions, coyotes etc. Remnants of their kills can be found on my 90 acre property.

    Local management practices lean toward leaving as much wild land as possible, allowing predators to return to the area, and do what they do naturally, control the deer, and other prey animal populations. Local ranchers keep donkeys with their cow / calf herds for protection.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Nov. 12, 2009
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    1,361

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhymeswithfizz View Post
    As for the blooding itself, I have certainly had much, much grosser things smeared on my cheek than that teensy bit of blood... I have three kids after all.
    LOL! No kids, but animal "oppsies".



  15. #55
    Join Date
    Dec. 25, 2007
    Posts
    1,395

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    My browser says "deleted".

    What is that about?



  16. #56
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    Jun. 20, 2012
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    134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gestalt View Post
    You know not of what you speak. I am not a "cosseted urbanite", I grew up on a farm and we slaughtered animals for our table and to sell. We simply shot them, no smearing blood over our bodies, no cutting off parts and caching them on our person. You simply put the animal down and get on with butchering. We were not "cosseted" socialites galloping around the countryside. (that was said tongue in cheek) The act of smearing fresh, hot blood on my face or wherever is a revolting thought. But do enjoy the freedom of America.

    And what is wrong with people from the city?
    I can assure you, not all foxhunters are socialites (I'm not sure I even know of any, personally, who are.) I work just so I'm able to do this and keep my horse. I know others do, too.

    On another note, this is one of the best threads I've ever read in a forum. Any forum.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2000
    Location
    Pretty much horse heaven
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    2,852

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash1 View Post
    I've been hunting for some time now...and we have never killed anything...I for one would not want to be part of that...tradition or not...I love being out there and watching the hounds work...that's our goal..I didnt realize that hunts acutally did that...
    If you are live hunting, you ARE a part of that. You are, indeed, HUNTING. All the PC talking of "chasing" is just that, PC talk. The hounds are doing their darnedest to track and catch their quarry. And it does happen on occasion. Anyone riding to hounds on a live hunt should accept and come to terms with that fact.

    Now, what I enjoy about hunting is the chase, the hound work, the great outdoors and my wonderful horse and my foxhunting friends and the wiles of the quarry and the mysteries of scent. And many other things. I'm glad that in my decades of hunting, the kills have been few and far between. But I've considered and come to terms with the fact that ever time i hunt, something may be caught. For the hounds and their quarry, there is no PC line that they run up to and stop at. Hunting is legal, time-honored, and it's in my blood. I don't need to apologize or deny I'm doing it. If I wasn't comfortable with this reality that something could be caught, I wouldn't hunt...despite the fact that almost every hunt I've ever been on was only a chase or a blank day hacking out.

    I don't enjoy a kill, but I can be happy for the hounds whose breeding and training and hard work paid off. I'm glad that much is done to give the quarry a fair shot (and then some), I.e. no dropped foxes or blocked earths and we stop hounds when the game runs out of hunt country (and the quarry figures out what is and is not hunt country pretty darn quick).

    I love to hunt, enjoy the chase immensely, but accept that every time we move off from a fixture those hounds are trying to do what they have been bred for generations and centuries to do. And I'm not going to ignore or deny or apologize for it. Hunting isn't for everyone, but I hope those that do hunt learn about and accept what they are a part of.
    Hindsight bad, foresight good.


    15 members found this post helpful.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2000
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    Pretty much horse heaven
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    2,852

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katyusha View Post
    On another note, this is one of the best threads I've ever read in a forum. Any forum.

    There was another and very similar thread on this subject some years back that you might want to read:

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...-to-learn-from
    Hindsight bad, foresight good.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Dec. 25, 2007
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    1,395

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    If you are live hunting, you ARE a part of that. You are, indeed, HUNTING. All the PC talking of "chasing" is just that, PC talk. The hounds are doing their darnedest to track and catch their quarry. And it does happen on occasion. Anyone riding to hounds on a live hunt should accept and come to terms with that fact.

    Now, what I enjoy about hunting is the chase, the hound work, the great outdoors and my wonderful horse and my foxhunting friends and the wiles of the quarry and the mysteries of scent. And many other things. I'm glad that in my decades of hunting, the kills have been few and far between. But I've considered and come to terms with the fact that ever time i hunt, something may be caught. For the hounds and their quarry, there is no PC line that they run up to and stop at. Hunting is legal, time-honored, and it's in my blood. I don't need to apologize or deny I'm doing it. If I wasn't comfortable with this reality that something could be caught, I wouldn't hunt...despite the fact that almost every hunt I've ever been on was only a chase or a blank day hacking out.

    I don't enjoy a kill, but I can be happy for the hounds whose breeding and training and hard work paid off. I'm glad that much is done to give the quarry a fair shot (and then some), I.e. no dropped foxes or blocked earths and we stop hounds when the game runs out of hunt country (and the quarry figures out what is and is not hunt country pretty darn quick).

    I love to hunt, enjoy the chase immensely, but accept that every time we move off from a fixture those hounds are trying to do what they have been bred for generations and centuries to do. And I'm not going to ignore or deny or apologize for it. Hunting isn't for everyone, but I hope those that do hunt learn about and accept what they are a part of.

    A great post.

    Yours is an excellent post and I have no quarrel with one single word of it.

    However, I wish I had said at the beginning what I will say now.

    This thread is without any doubt driving Dennis Foster nuts.

    I can assure you that every one of you that he can identify and that belongs to a MFHA member club will in some way feel pressure from him.

    He very rarely contacts the victime in person, but almost always goes it through a second or even third party.

    So it is my advice to anyone belonging to a MFHA member club that they drop the subject, unless of course they are very secure in themselves and in their position within their club.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2012
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    4,164

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    To fail to acknowledge the hunter, and indeed the warrior, part of human nature is to live in denial of half our humanity. It also fails to pay Nature the respect it is due, and denies us the opportunity to take full posession of, and yes, responsibility for our human position as the pinnacle predator. The farther we get from exposure to Nature, the less time our children spend with REAL animals in the outdoors, the more we are going to louse things up.

    Hiding who and what we are under a politically-correct veneer of shrink-wrap and bar-codes while delegating the work of bringing home the meat is hypocritical at best. It's a sorry day when even on the Hunting Forum we can't have an open and free conversation about, well, hunting!


    4 members found this post helpful.

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