The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 38
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2004
    Location
    Left coast, left wing, left field
    Posts
    6,355

    Default How do creationists explain all these people coming from two?

    So I feel woefully ignorant of what creationists actually believe. Anyone care to enlighten me? Is it that God created humans (no evolution) or is it literally Adam and Eve, and we all came from those two? If the latter, how do they rationalize the incest and who had the first daughter(s)? And where did different races come from (since of course Adam and Eve were white Anglo-Saxons)?
    Arrange whatever pieces come your way. - Virginia Woolf

    Did you know that if you say the word "GULLIBLE" really softly, it sounds like "ORANGES"?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    10,447

    Default

    Um, first, it kind of depends on who you mean by "creationists" (Catholic doctrine acknowledges the process of evolution and does not take Genesis literally, the young-earth creationists follow an analysis of the text that calculated, somehow, the exact age of the Earth and take the text literally, Deists would likely say God kicked the whole thing off and went off to do something else...it depends on who you ask.)

    Second, you do know that humanity does actually trace to a very small number of genetically-identifiable individuals and bottlenecks a couple times, so 'incest' already happened, no matter how you view it. (Also cross-breeding with Neanderthals, which are at the most a different subspecies.) There is mention of 'daughters', depending on which version you read, and of Cain living among other people. The different races, IIRC, are from the different sons of Noah going off to live different places and the different races are descended from different sons (another bottleneck, as all but Noah's passengers were wiped out, which interestingly dovetails with a known genetic bottleneck...and of course, the flood story appears in almost every creation myth we know of-a great flood wipes everything out and a wise man and the animals start over-with the Babylonian story almost certainly the exact same one-presumably the writers of the Jewish bible picked it up in Babylon.)

    There's another thing, what version of the creation story are you talking about? A lot of the 'young-earth' types seem to favor the KJV, which is very pretty but rather badly done.

    I'm a Catholic, and we don't have a problem with an ancient Earth or nonliteral reading of Genesis, so I can't really answer any more specifically than that...


    5 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2009
    Posts
    5,497

    Default

    A Young-Earth Bible-literalist pastor in my neck of the woods explained it thusly -

    Yes, Adam & Eve's kids were knocking socks and procreating. However, the reason their kids didn't all turn out to be six-headed nine-eyed monsters with lisps is because the gene pool was "pure". I.e., there were no genetic mutations to pass along that early in the game, since A&E were "perfect".

    Whatever you have to tell yourself, dude. I didn't stick around to find out why it was acceptable for Lot to offer his own daughters to a raging mob to be raped in lieu of two perfect strangers who'd just that day showed up on his doorstep.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 25, 2004
    Location
    Carolinas
    Posts
    4,801

    Default

    NatGeo ran a test in NYC several years ago. They took DNA swabs of several hundred people living in a particular neighborhood. After testing the DNA all participants were invited back for the results.
    All eventually traced back to a single man and woman in Africa, Adam and Eve. This piggy backs on an earlier DNA test that tracked male and female markers to determine the earliest man/woman. There was some question as to whether Homo sapiens started in Africa or Asia. The oldest markers found were in Africa. Early Homo sapiens migrated from Africa and "evolved" based on their environments. At least according to the current science.

    Now shall we discuss who is correct, The Bible or Science. Both state there were "Two" who "Our" ancestors.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2003
    Location
    Middleburg, VA
    Posts
    13,016

    Default

    Also, if you read Genesis, you'll get the idea that people in those stories lived a loooong time and had A LOT of kids. Lots of lineages and going forth and what not.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
    Posts
    15,345

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yellowbritches View Post
    Also, if you read Genesis, you'll get the idea that people in those stories lived a loooong time and had A LOT of kids. Lots of lineages and going forth and what not.
    Yeah. Isn't a whole butt-load of Genesis just a very, very long written pedigree for the descendants of Adam and Eve? I have only read the whole thing once.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2003
    Location
    Happily in Canada
    Posts
    4,882

    Default

    (Comic interlude, don't read if your sense of humour is malfunctioning)

    So, it isn't true, as we sung in a Catholic school I attended, that:

    Father Abraham had many sons
    And many sons had Father Abraham
    I am one of them
    And so are you
    So let's all praise the Lord (right hand)

    etc.
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    41,148

    Default

    ---"How do creationists explain all these people coming from two?"---

    You have to ask?

    It's a miracle, of course!

    Truly, that is what the jesuit priest in our school answered, winking, when asked that same question.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 30, 2007
    Location
    Hollowed out volcano in the South Pacific.
    Posts
    11,290

    Default

    Maybe if someone made a movie about it, we could figure it out. I dunno.....
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!


    4 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2008
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
    Posts
    4,034

    Default

    Has anyone read the book Sylvia Browne wrote - The Secret Life of Jesus Christ???
    Really interesting view of "religion".



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,058

    Default

    I don't know why they try to explain anything. A rational thought process is not something you possess if you are a creationist.
    www.svhanoverians.com

    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.


    15 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar. 30, 2007
    Location
    Hollowed out volcano in the South Pacific.
    Posts
    11,290

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Donella View Post
    I don't know why they try to explain anything. A rational thought process is not something you possess if you are a creationist.
    Or Kirk Cameron.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!


    8 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13

    Default

    Lex - Bahahaha
    “We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.”
    Kurt Vonnegut, Mother Night



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2006
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    4,407

    Default

    How do creationists explain all these people coming from two?

    obviously the OPer has never been to Arkansas


    6 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct. 12, 2001
    Location
    Center of the Universe
    Posts
    6,922

    Default

    they don't have to explain, they just "believe". If it made any sense it'd be science, not religion.

    a more interesting question is why anyone believes that a bunch of semi-literate people who lived a few centuries ago somehow had any knowledge of the origin of the human species?

    our science says that there was a really severe bottleneck about 3 million years ago when hominids were developing, perhaps fewer than 2000 individuals; and later on, more recently, there were several population bottlenecks with populations reduced to only a few thousand individuals. It's incorrect to say that there were ever only two humans living at one point in time- that's just a religious spin put on the science.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2009
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,287

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fooler View Post
    NatGeo ran a test in NYC several years ago. They took DNA swabs of several hundred people living in a particular neighborhood. After testing the DNA all participants were invited back for the results.
    All eventually traced back to a single man and woman in Africa, Adam and Eve. This piggy backs on an earlier DNA test that tracked male and female markers to determine the earliest man/woman. There was some question as to whether Homo sapiens started in Africa or Asia. The oldest markers found were in Africa. Early Homo sapiens migrated from Africa and "evolved" based on their environments. At least according to the current science.

    Now shall we discuss who is correct, The Bible or Science. Both state there were "Two" who "Our" ancestors.
    A bit oversimplified. The DNA evidence supports archaelogical evidence that modern humans originated in Africa and groups migrated from there. Using mitochondiral DNA, which only traces maternal lines, scientists come up with an "Eve" that existed almost 200,000 years ago. Using y chromosomes, which only trace paternal lines, scientists come up with an "Adam" that existed more recently (closer to 100,000 years ago). This suggests that there were a couple bottlenecks, but does not support a Biblical "Adam and Eve" and does not suggest that they were the only humans of their gender alive at the time (just the ones whose genetic lineage was preserved to modern times).

    However, I was always intrigued by wording in whatever Bible my church had used. It stated that the Sons of God would have children with the Sons of Man. My pastor, perhaps a little "out there" for being a pastor, liked to suggest that this means Homo sapiens mated with something ELSE... angels was his suggestion, but us kids decided aliens was more logical. Also there was a statement along the lines of "at that time, giants walked the earth". Again my pastor with the angels among us, us kids went with aliens or bigfoot. Of course, now we have evidence that many modern humans have Neandertal DNA (I know I do... short, reddish hair, pale skin...) and while Neandertals were shorter (which doesn't back up the "Giants" thing) it does make you wonder what other humans we may have shared the earth with, and what they were like.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    41,148

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oldpony66 View Post
    A bit oversimplified. The DNA evidence supports archaelogical evidence that modern humans originated in Africa and groups migrated from there. Using mitochondiral DNA, which only traces maternal lines, scientists come up with an "Eve" that existed almost 200,000 years ago. Using y chromosomes, which only trace paternal lines, scientists come up with an "Adam" that existed more recently (closer to 100,000 years ago). This suggests that there were a couple bottlenecks, but does not support a Biblical "Adam and Eve" and does not suggest that they were the only humans of their gender alive at the time (just the ones whose genetic lineage was preserved to modern times).

    However, I was always intrigued by wording in whatever Bible my church had used. It stated that the Sons of God would have children with the Sons of Man. My pastor, perhaps a little "out there" for being a pastor, liked to suggest that this means Homo sapiens mated with something ELSE... angels was his suggestion, but us kids decided aliens was more logical. Also there was a statement along the lines of "at that time, giants walked the earth". Again my pastor with the angels among us, us kids went with aliens or bigfoot. Of course, now we have evidence that many modern humans have Neandertal DNA (I know I do... short, reddish hair, pale skin...) and while Neandertals were shorter (which doesn't back up the "Giants" thing) it does make you wonder what other humans we may have shared the earth with, and what they were like.
    We really need a good, in real time, time machine, don't we.
    So many questions, so many guesses, relatively few real answers.
    No wonder those that don't understand basic science as we think we know today make up their own answers and some times may even get it right.

    Some times, I feel we are still trying to describe elephants by touch.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
    Posts
    8,852

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    We really need a good, in real time, time machine, don't we.
    So many questions, so many guesses, relatively few real answers.
    No wonder those that don't understand basic science as we think we know today make up their own answers and some times may even get it right.

    Some times, I feel we are still trying to describe elephants by touch.
    Absolutely not!!!!!

    If we had a time machine some bozo would go back, step on a butterfly, and we'd all end up voting for Hitler as World President!

    If you try and take Genesis literally you tie yourself up in a Gordian Knot of difficulties. Believers use the Sword of Miracle to cut the Knot.

    If you take Genesis as a story that, in fact, does roughly parallel the facts it's a much easier intellectual go. The folks of that time didn't have mitrocondrial DNA available; they did the best they could (as did the writers of other culture's "Creation Myths"). IMO we dishonor their honest effort by carving it into stone and demanding that everybody "sign on."

    I guess I'm close to being Catholic Deist, but I'm not organizing any church around it.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2006
    Posts
    10,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fooler View Post
    NatGeo ran a test in NYC several years ago. They took DNA swabs of several hundred people living in a particular neighborhood. After testing the DNA all participants were invited back for the results.
    All eventually traced back to a single man and woman in Africa, Adam and Eve. This piggy backs on an earlier DNA test that tracked male and female markers to determine the earliest man/woman. There was some question as to whether Homo sapiens started in Africa or Asia. The oldest markers found were in Africa. Early Homo sapiens migrated from Africa and "evolved" based on their environments. At least according to the current science.

    Now shall we discuss who is correct, The Bible or Science. Both state there were "Two" who "Our" ancestors.
    Quote Originally Posted by oldpony66 View Post
    A bit oversimplified. The DNA evidence supports archaelogical evidence that modern humans originated in Africa and groups migrated from there. Using mitochondiral DNA, which only traces maternal lines, scientists come up with an "Eve" that existed almost 200,000 years ago. Using y chromosomes, which only trace paternal lines, scientists come up with an "Adam" that existed more recently (closer to 100,000 years ago). This suggests that there were a couple bottlenecks, but does not support a Biblical "Adam and Eve" and does not suggest that they were the only humans of their gender alive at the time (just the ones whose genetic lineage was preserved to modern times).
    Just wanted to thank you oldpony for your post.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2003
    Location
    Middleburg, VA
    Posts
    13,016

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blugal View Post
    (Comic interlude, don't read if your sense of humour is malfunctioning)

    So, it isn't true, as we sung in a Catholic school I attended, that:

    Father Abraham had many sons
    And many sons had Father Abraham
    I am one of them
    And so are you
    So let's all praise the Lord (right hand)

    etc.
    Well, crap. Now THAT'S going to be stuck in my head ALL DAY.



Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 41
    Last Post: May. 21, 2012, 06:08 PM
  2. Color people... please explain my TB to me.
    By GingerJumper in forum Off Course
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Apr. 21, 2012, 08:30 AM
  3. Replies: 47
    Last Post: Apr. 1, 2011, 03:59 PM
  4. Can You Explain Anti-Choice People to Me? Honestly?
    By Beentheredonethat in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 430
    Last Post: Mar. 21, 2011, 02:36 PM
  5. Color people, explain the Medicine hat
    By RockingN in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: Sep. 24, 2008, 10:32 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
randomness