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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2006
    Posts
    789

    Default Is 1500 Dodge Ram enough truck for a 2+1?

    We have been looking for a new truck....wantyed a 2500 around 2010-2011. Husband's friend told him he does not need a 2500....1500 will do. He is away on a hockey weekend and just called....he and "the boys have been looking at trucks all day" between games. Seems they have all decided a 2007 (!!!!!) 5.7 hemi 1500 with a "couple of added springs" will do the job. They say it has a trailer package and will pull like a 2500 witht he springs.

    The trailer is a Jamco 2+1 plus tack room....horses are all large warmbloods. Is such a truck enough for the job???



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2000
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    9,941

    Default

    No. Not enough truck for a trailer that size, much less a trailer that size loaded with horses. The brakes and weight aren't enough for safe stops or control.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2001
    Posts
    6,677

    Default

    Your husband needs an education in hauling.


    A tow rating is a very poor approximation that fails to account for the reality of towing.

    What you want to do is look at the GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING (GVWR) on the door panel. Add this to the GVWR of the trailer you are considering this gives you the GCVWR (Gross Combined....). Subtract out the true weight of the truck and trailer, the passenger and fuel weight, tack, equipment etc. What you will get the the upper limit on what you can haul with the vehicle. Many times this is MUCH less than the tow rating.

    For example:

    My truck's GVWR is 8,800 lbs. My trailer's GVWR is 14,500 lbs. Therefore my GCVWR is 23,300. My truck weighs 7,000 lbs with 2 passengers and fully fueled. My trailer weighs 4,500 lbs. empty (got these via truck scales).

    23,300-7,000-4,500=11,800

    This means I have only 11,800 lbs of towing capacity even though the truck manufacturer said I have 13,600 lbs.

    Tow ratings are a bogus number and do not reflect real capability of the truck, its suspension, its brakes and engine. You are NOT just TOWING a horse. You are towing the TRUCK, TRAILER, HORSE(S), PEOPLE, EQUIPMENT regardless if they are in the truck or in the trailer.

    Also, it is not the GOING that is important. It is the STOPPING. Does the 1500 have a breaking system to stop a loaded combined vehicle? Do not rely on having brakes on the trailer. I've lost mine and was very happy to have massive brakes on the truck.

    I bet you will find the 1500 is lacking in ability to tow such a trailer.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2000
    Location
    Greenville, MI,
    Posts
    11,710

    Default

    Take it from someone who had a 1500. IT WAS WAY NOT THE TRUCK. for the job.
    do yourself and everyone a favor, get a 2500.
    So typical, non horse men tell people OH you don't need a 2500. 1500 is fine.
    That was the BS my ex followed 10 years ago. And I went along, I was the one scared to death hauling two big tbs on the highway. NEver again. You will be so happy if you get a 2500.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2007
    Posts
    839

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RAyers View Post
    Also, it is not the GOING that is important. It is the STOPPING. Does the 1500 have a breaking system to stop a loaded combined vehicle? Do not rely on having brakes on the trailer. I've lost mine and was very happy to have massive brakes on the truck.
    This!! I pull my 2+1 without DR with a dually. It's a little overkill, a 250 is probably sufficient, but I've had enough times to be thankful for the extra power, and especially brakes to not want anything else. IMO, you'd be nuts to pull a 2+1 with DR and 3 warmbloods on board with anything less than a 250/2500.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug. 2, 2004
    Location
    Whidbey Is, Wash.
    Posts
    9,252

    Default

    Simply put, no.
    Aisha, my heart from 03/06/1986 to 08/22/2008.

    COTH's official mini-donk enabler.
    Odie, aka the Evil Burrito, is on Facebook.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
    Posts
    14,651

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Treasmare2 View Post
    We have been looking for a new truck....wantyed a 2500 around 2010-2011. Husband's friend told him he does not need a 2500....1500 will do. He is away on a hockey weekend and just called....he and "the boys have been looking at trucks all day" between games. Seems they have all decided a 2007 (!!!!!) 5.7 hemi 1500 with a "couple of added springs" will do the job. They say it has a trailer package and will pull like a 2500 witht he springs.

    The trailer is a Jamco 2+1 plus tack room....horses are all large warmbloods. Is such a truck enough for the job???
    "THEY" aren't the ones potentially putting themselves and their horses at risk. THEY don't know what they're talking about.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2006
    Posts
    789

    Default

    Thanks everyone...all you have said certainly supports my arguement against so I will be having him read these comments.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug. 13, 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    776

    Default

    I will add more reading material for him then. We had a Dodge 1500 and I believe it was a 5.7. DH had it before we ever had horses. It pulled our small 2 horse with the manger front--those tiny little trailers. When we got a Featherlite 3 horse, even with one horse in it I couldn't keep it from losing speed rapidly going up gradual inclines. So besides the towing safety issues, I think there are power issues. Especially with warmbloods on board. We didn't have the bigger trailer long before we bought a 3/4 ton diesel.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb. 27, 2005
    Posts
    489

    Default

    No way. They are not taking into account that horses are a live load...meaning they can shift and affect the trailer, unlike a "dead" load that just sits there. 2500 minimum.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov. 6, 2009
    Posts
    1,929

    Default

    No. RAyers explained it better than I could have. Plus as Unfforgettable points out, horses are a live, unstable load. There is a good book on towing by Tom and Neva Scheve that gives some additional helpful explanations about choosing tow vehicles. I'd refer to my copy right now except that it is out on loan to someone who told me they were going to tow their trailer with a little SUV.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Sanger, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,748

    Default

    No....had a F250 diesel that pulled my steel 2-horse slant load with dressing room
    and 2 large TB's like there was nothing back there. Then we got a 2005 Dodge 1500 5.7 engine and it had to work to pull it and the gas mileage was like 10 mpg
    towing. Got a 2007 Dodge 2500 mega cab with 5.9 diesel...am happy camper again.

    It's just not enough truck!
    Julie
    www.centaurfencing.com
    Safer, Stronger, Lasts Longer!
    Godspeed BARBARO--Run fast and free!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2009
    Posts
    653

    Default

    Well I'm glad that someone in the family stops to ask for directions!!

    asking a guy friend ..... out looking at the wrong trucks 'all day' ....

    Just go straight to the source and ask the folks that have the right experience, and a few that have already paid the price for this knowledge and can save you the same.

    All good advice well said.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    May. 21, 2008
    Location
    Sonoma County, California
    Posts
    2,491

    Default

    NO!

    I have an F250 diesel and would think twice about hauling a heavier 2+1 with THAT.

    Another thing to consider is that you can void your vehicle insurance if you haul a load your truck is not rated to tow.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2011
    Posts
    865

    Default

    We have a Large Jamco 2+1 and I am currently looking for a F-450 to pull it with. Our 2005 F-350 is adequate, but at its limits.

    Rayers, you need to do your math again. You only have 1,800 pounds to add to your truck before exceeding its GVWR. Your trailer with horses would be putting that on its tongue, before even considering anything else inside your truck.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2001
    Posts
    6,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by airhorse View Post
    Rayers, you need to do your math again. You only have 1,800 pounds to add to your truck before exceeding its GVWR. Your trailer with horses would be putting that on its tongue, before even considering anything else inside your truck.


    No, I am correct. The 1,800 pounds goes to the tongue weight of the trailer. I used to have my CDL and learned how to make the calculations. The weight is the COMBINED not the single. Otherwise even semis wouldn't be able to haul.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2011
    Posts
    865

    Default

    So your trailer magically transfers no weight to your truck?



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2001
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by airhorse View Post
    So your trailer magically transfers no weight to your truck?
    That is TONGUE weight on the trailer. You realize the majority of your trailer weight is carried on its axles? Only a fraction of a well designed trailer actually rests on the hitch. For example my 3 horse maybe hits 750-1,000 pounds on the hitch. I don't even load the upper leaf spring. Whereas 2,000 pounds of hay will put the upper leaf springs to the "stops."

    Crossing the scales with passengers and 1 horse in the 3 horse, my front axle is 5,400 pounds, my rear axle is 4,400 pounds and my trailer axles are 6,400 pounds. Well within the GCVWR.

    Make a free body diagram with the weights and forces and you will understand how to calculate the allowable weights on trucks and trailers.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb. 17, 2000
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    3,484

    Default

    The only thing I could add to this is that I used to have a similar set up with a Dodge 2500 5.9L engine. I had the bigger engine, tow package and better springs. In the end it wasn't the the springs, breaks or engine that gave up the ghost. It was the transmission. Big expensive fix.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2011
    Posts
    865

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RAyers View Post

    Crossing the scales with passengers and 1 horse in the 3 horse, my front axle is 5,400 pounds, my rear axle is 4,400 pounds and my trailer axles are 6,400 pounds. Well within the GCVWR.

    Under GCVWR, over GVWR by 1,000 pounds. Your combined front and rear axle weight should not exceed 8,800 to be within your trucks GVWR.



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