[twotrudoc]

You are right on from the ECON viewpoint, Blugal!

[tabula rashah]

Here is a living wage calculator. Of course, it depends on your location. In some areas (obviously) you can live more cheaply than others. It was developed by MIT.

http://livingwage.mit.edu/

Thanks for sharing that, it's a really interesting link. According to it, my job is right on target for what it's supposed to be (and well everyone knows you're not going to ever make much in the horse industry anyway). But my DH's job is well below what he is "supposed" to be making according to it.

[dani0303]

According to the calculator, my job is just below what I should be making. Sounds about right. I can *almost* support myself (if not for school, my horse, etc).

[BuddyRoo]

I'm sorry to laugh, but I'm laughing a bit because we paid above min wage for new hires for a very low skilled job. AND we offered benefits. And we'd have people no show the first day, lost a third of the training class in a week, and most said it was due to having to show up on a schedule.

It just makes me laugh. We have all these people who WANT to work out there (supposedly) but we hire folks and they actually DON'T want to work. It's messed up.

My mom is unemployed right now and wants a full time job. It really bothers me that she can't find something but I could've hired 10 people in a week in her place and none would even show up for day one at above min wage.

Sorry. Soap box moment.

We hire about 30 people a week at this time of year. It's always rather frustrating. We just can't get enough people and yet my mom can't find something. <shakes head>

[LauraKY]

Buddy Roo, what about your location or industry or wages makes it unappealing to workers? Must be something.

[Renn/aissance]

Around here, there is no way that minimum wage could be a living wage. Apartment rent starts at near $1000/ month for something that isn't a total dump and in a safe area. That's before you add in any utilities. You have to have a car, there is no public transportation and MD requires car insurance, so there's another big bite. Grocery expenses can be fairly inexpensive if you know how to shop, esp with all of the Amish markets available locally. I would think that to be self sufficient, one would need to bring home close to $30K/ year in my area.

Like Tabula Rashah, I live in Maryland, although I'm in Baltimore. $30k/year also seems to hold true here. That's about what I make across my three jobs. I live with a roommate, and while I could cut costs a little by biking to the Light Rail station and taking public transportation to work, it is not a substantial savings in money and is a big loss in time (and also not a safe way to get home after dark- two miles straight uphill on a road that's barely lit and gets slick easily.) I'm satisfied with what I am making now considering what I do and my experience level, but I'm worried about being able to find another PT job to replace the FT position I'll be leaving when I go back to school.

[LexInVA]

Here in NoVA, you have to make 35-45K to live comfortably if you're single. Most jobs start out at 25-32K for entry-level stuff.

[Guin]

That MIT calculator is full of crap. It says in my metro-Boston area, a single person can live on $26,000 by him/herself. Add $10K and yes, you could probably manage to live on it. $26K would have you living in a cardboard box next to the Callahan Tunnel.

[mvp]

Well dayum, a full-time job ought to pay enough to support a full-time life, right?

Isn't this a definitional thing? If not-- full-time doesn't pay for someone, then what closes the gap?

If the employer isn't doing it, then you might as well admit that the government, yo' daddy, the past generations from whom you inherited dough, or even future generations from who you are taking stuff like the college fund.... those guys are subsidizing the company.

[BuddyRoo]

Buddy Roo, what about your location or industry or wages makes it unappealing to workers? Must be something.

Having to show up on time seems to be the biggest issue. 95% of our terminations are due to people not showing up on time.

[BuddyRoo]

I should mention that we are (I was) a business that is time based. IE: Our business depends on informercials so that means that when we have a big hit going off, we need people in their seats and ready to take calls. Being even 5 minutes late can mean that we can't answer calls.

So being on time was a big deal. Lots of people seem not to like that.

We also had an issue with folks who were on unemployment and as a condition of getting said benefits, had to be applying for jobs. So they'd apply, get hired, and no show because they didn't want to take a job when they could take unemployment. We actually had people say "I'm sorry, but I didn't really want a job, I just wanted to keep my benefits. Sorry."

[happymom]

So.... how much profit for banks, Wall Street, oil companies, etc. is enough?

[mvp]

You are right on from the ECON viewpoint, Blugal!

Not so fast! Even economic theory couched in academese has a time and place... and, as often as not, interestedness baked right into it.

I'm not an expert, but have you heard the howls about the Harvard economists being blamed for the theories that contributed to the kind of regulation (or lack of it) that we had leading up to the Apocalypse?

[twotrudoc]

mvp, trust me I just finished ECON 213 not three weeks ago. That IS the viewpoint of basic ECON. Whether or not you or anyone else agrees is not the discussion.

While I do not report to him, I have a very close working relationship to the Dean and Director of the Military Program for the college I work for. He's a PhD and we were just laughing month about how ECON people have a set viewpoint.

[Trakehner]

I guess it depends on who's making it.

I find the money paid to sports athletes obscene. The money musicians make is even more obscene....some criminals rhyming about raping women and shooting cops making millions of dollars, no excuse or value added to anything.

[danceronice]

I'm in Boston metro. If you want to live by yourself in an apartment or some sort of rental housing within 10 miles of the city and own a car, $40,000/year is pretty much the standard. Housing prices are outrageous here. If you have a roommate, you could scrape by on $30,000.

No, you just have to revise your expectations on rental housing. I'm sure some of the people I worked with as a real estate agent would have be aghast at living in the neighborhood I did in Waltham, but I had offstreet parking, hardwood floors, an awesome landlord, walking distance to the commuter rail, and a one-bedroom with lots of floor space. $1000/month. (The killer in MA is insurance on ANYTHING.) Not the prettiest neighborhood and it probably would have helped with some neighbors if I could speak Brazilian Portuguese, but I wasn't paying through the nose.

"Enough" is "what an employer can pay while remaining in business that someone considers sufficient for them to do the job." I asked for more per hour for this job than they were really looking to pay and because they really needed someone with experience, I got it.

[vxf111]

Here is a living wage calculator. Of course, it depends on your location. In some areas (obviously) you can live more cheaply than others. It was developed by MIT.

http://livingwage.mit.edu/

That's really interesting, thank you for sharing that.

[mvp]

Here is a living wage calculator. Of course, it depends on your location. In some areas (obviously) you can live more cheaply than others. It was developed by MIT.

http://livingwage.mit.edu/

A great little credit union in Ithaca, NY started gathering their own data about the real cost of living there. They documented it all-- average rent for a 1 bedroom apartment, health insurance if you bought it, the cost of a bus pass and the rest. They found that the living wage for that part of Central NY was above the poverty line. They repeat their study every other year, I think, and locals take it seriously.

[mvp]

mvp, trust me I just finished ECON 213 not three weeks ago. That IS the viewpoint of basic ECON. Whether or not you or anyone else agrees is not the discussion.

While I do not report to him, I have a very close working relationship to the Dean and Director of the Military Program for the college I work for. He's a PhD and we were just laughing month about how ECON people have a set viewpoint.

I'm not talking about whether or not economists have the correct view of the world. In fact, we agree that they seem to have a set view point. That does not mean it's the only one out there. And that was why folks were so exorcized about Harvard Econs providing the theory that misled Washington. People wanted something like separation of elite universities and elite governance, or at least a voice from the academy that didn't justify the status quo.

[mvp]

I guess it depends on who's making it.

I find the money paid to sports athletes obscene. The money musicians make is even more obscene....some criminals rhyming about raping women and shooting cops making millions of dollars, no excuse or value added to anything.

Holy crap, T-bone, we agree on something!

And another thing:

Economic historians are fond of pointing out that the greatest violence or instability can be found in societies that have great disparities in wealth, not merely great poverty.