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  1. #41
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    My best friend lost her father when she was 12, that was driving home one afternoon from work, to a drunk driver with a suspended license for ... drunk driving.
    The fellow went to jail for two years, got out and next time he got drunk, he had another accident where he was the only one involved and it killed him.

    I don't know what you can do with those people, but put them in jail forever, if you catch them before they keep killing when drunk.


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  2. #42
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    Over here the Graduated License program has a zero tolerance policy for young drivers, until they get their full license.

    I'd have no quibbles with doing that for everyone. I don't understand the "zero tolerance is going too far, other things also cause impairment" - ok, yes they do, but just because other things like prescribed meds or fatigue cause impairment, does that mean that a 0.0 BAC can't be legislated? Hey, other things besides seizures can cause a driver to suddenly lose control of their car, but we don't throw our hands up in the air and say "oh well", we suspend the license when a seizure disorder presents.

    People may have to drive. And they certainly have the right to drink if they're of age.
    But there's no protected right to drink and drive, and no one has to do it.


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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRoo View Post

    When I lived in Italy, there were actually check points along the roads. Zero tolerance. I believe it's the same in Germany? (I think my brother told me that--he lives there) No one screwed around with it. There was ALWAYS a DD. (Our Mormon friends were awesome for this btw. LOL. How do you go out to dinner in Italy and NOT have a glass of wine?)
    Ditto this.... hubby is English and over there, drinking is part of the culture. But not a single one of his friends or family would consider driving drunk. Then again, the public transportation system is much better, so it was easy to take the bus/train wherever one needs to go. Or, they walk.... (what a novelty, walking...!)
    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.


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  4. #44
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    I think the law about seizures is your license is suspended until you have six months without seizures and your doctor gives the go ahead to be renewed.
    At least that is what it was a while back.

    When I had a heart attack, I was on my way home and drove myself to the hospital, because I knew I was sick, but didn't know how sick or that I really was too sick to drive, just was not thinking right.
    Luckily nothing happened, but that was unavoidable.
    To drive when you know you may have seizures or worse, drink and drive, well, that I can't imagine.


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  5. #45
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    Apr. 29, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilitiger2 View Post
    When someone is drinking, their judgement is impaired-thats the whole point of drinking and why we don't have a lot of Kool-Aid related accidents. People are NOT able, reliably, to determine their level of impairment because the part of their brain responsible for that judgement is impaired! People THINK they are fine...and that is the whole problem. And the risk is there EVERY SINGLE TIME.
    I think sums up the problem quite well. A lot of people think "I'd never do that" while they're sober, but once they're drunk, they don't think they're impaired, or it seems okay because their inhibitions are so much lower.

    It's really important for people to make plans for safe transportation while they're still sober, instead of leaving it until it's too late to think clearly.
    "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn’t merely train him to be semi-human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming part dog."
    -Edward Hoagland


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  6. #46
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    Feb. 25, 2012
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    bluey, Iam so sorry about your friends dad. And for the family of the girl killed by the remorseless guy who was drinking. The people I have met in that circumstance (the driver) are usually suicidal.

    I just can't stress enough, that people make a choice to engage in very high risk behavior, i.e., drinking and driving, usually without ability to adequately assess the risk...BECAUSE alcohol has already impaired the part of the brain responsible for that assessment. Addiction develops as a result of both biological make up and high risk choice. Engage in enough high risk choice and over time you'll wind up with problems with addiction-sooner for some, later for others. IMPAIRMENT related problems do not require addiction-a first time drinker can easily kill someone. Its just that people are so terribly poor at determining risk-they never, ever think that they will kill someone ("I've only had two!"), and yet, they risk everything they love and value every single solitary time they decide to drink and drive. Every time. Talk to people who have killed others and they never, ever appreciated that they were playing Russian Roulette with their children, their families-everything they held dear.

    And just because there are other activities which impair drivers doesnt 'mean we shouldn't be aggressive about the ones we can address!

    I know no one who wants another Prohibition, so drinkers don't have to put the cork in the bottle at all, but they do not have the right to drink and drive. I love pistols but, as another poster pointed out, I do not have the right to carry them everywhere I want to, or to shoot them whenever I feel like it. If I commit a crime with a firearm, guess what happens to my gun rights? I have demonstrated I am not safe to carry. If someone decides to drink and drive, they have demonstrated they are not fit to safely operate a motor vehicle.
    And sadly, its the lawyers who really can make things so much worse for clients, with their "win/lose" mentality. I can't say how many clients have been teetering, finally getting the motivation to address their drinking because finally they are forced into treatment at least, when their lawyers tell them they got a lesser charge and they don't have to do treatment! Hooray! Free to drink and drive some more! I have a family member who should have gotten countless DUIs (and treatment) but, in spite of family pleading, his lawyer got the charges pled down every time, and now the guy is pretty much brain dead. Such a victory.

    Should the law be used for social good? Probably a question for legal scholars but in the meantime the way things are is very frustrating for anyone impacted by impaired driving!!


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  7. #47
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    It isn't all about drinking either. Drugs of any kind, prescription or illegal also impair judgement. Makes me wonder about the states whom have legalized pot for medicinal purpooses. What happens when they have an accident wether they are the cause or not? They will get the short end of the stick for having it in their systems. Not that I am sticking up for them but I feel stiffer laws should be put in place in every state for DWI, DUI and drugs and driving.


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  8. #48
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    Sep. 1, 2004
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    I see nothing wrong with someone having one glass of wine or one beer with dinner and then driving. You are well under the limit. Looks like the traffic accidents mentioned in this thread were committed by people who were drunk. There is a big difference in drunk and one glass of an alcoholic beverage with a meal. Most people know when to stop. I would like to see the repeat offenders dealt with more severely. And as some one mentioned earlier, taking away a license does not deter many drunk drivers.
    Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.


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  9. #49
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    Jan. 2, 2012
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    This is an international problem - including the no public transport in rurally areas.

    I know my limit under our laws (0.04) - ie 2 glasses of still wine with food. I have one.

    We have set the limit for people not on a full licence and/or under the age of 21 as zero. None. Does it stop all of them? No - but it certainly cuts the #s down. I think it should be applied to all ages and length of holding a full licence.

    If you fail the road-side test - regardless of accuracy or not - then you legally have to accompany the police to the police station for an evidential breath/blood test.

    We have these "Bloody Legend" ads run on TV - they are often screamingly funny or incredibly sad but you can relate to them from your own experiences .... and then you get hit by the punch line. You would need to google them, but the punch-line is often "Stop a mate from driving drunk - BLOODY LEGEND" - and the alternate "Drive drunk, you are a bloody idiot". Does it stop all of them? No - but it certainly cuts the #s down.

    We also have our "reality TV" shows - similar to your "Cops" (I love that "bad boys" refrain. We have a # "Road Cops", "Highway Patrol", Police Ten-7 - they deal with a lot of issues such as incidents, accidents, road-side D&A testing etc - but each follows only a small # of cases and provides a "what happened to this person" . We have noted a decrease since these programmes came on - no-one wants to eb one of their guests . However, it is frightening just how many of them are repeat offenders ... but if it stops some-one new doing it ...

    Does it stop all of the drunk drivers? No - but it certainly has cut the #s down.
    Still Working_on_it - one day I will get it!


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  10. #50
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    Actually, no. People do NOT know when to stop, that is the problem. They are impaired long, long before they think they are. Even at .08 BAC drivers are ELEVEN times more likely to have a single vehicle crash. no one wants their airline pilot to drink until he thinks he should stop, or their kids's school bus driver to "just have oneor two with lunch" and then drive the route home. That "most people know when to stop" is just crap the liquor cos want you to believe. And people ahve serious flawed reasoning ("Its just one". "I've always made it home before". "Its just a few blocks",,"I've had coffee").. all misguided. I worked at a DUI clinic and did bunches of evals every week, of people who really wanted that moment back.

    Can some people drink the low risk, one drink an hour option? Sure, if they are not elderly, stressed, on medication, suffer other mental health issues, don't have addiction issues, have a small body size, suffer a genetic intolerance to alcohol, are not drnking on an empty stomach, etc. But...people are not always aware of their risk factors.and ANYONE who drinks can cause a wreck. Given that wrecks happen with stone cold sober folks, why would we tolerate people who feel they need to ADD to that risk?

    Maybe this time it will post...


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  11. #51
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    May. 10, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by bird4416 View Post
    I see nothing wrong with someone having one glass of wine or one beer with dinner and then driving. You are well under the limit. Looks like the traffic accidents mentioned in this thread were committed by people who were drunk. There is a big difference in drunk and one glass of an alcoholic beverage with a meal. Most people know when to stop. I would like to see the repeat offenders dealt with more severely. And as some one mentioned earlier, taking away a license does not deter many drunk drivers.
    Study after study after study has shown that even ONE drink (and bear in mind that one drink = one 12-oz. beer, one 5 oz glass of wine, or one shot of liquor, and many establishments serve more than in one order; many mixed drinks have two or three times that amount) alters a person's judgement. That has nothing to do with tolerance, weight, or whether they appear impaired in any way. In addition, just one drink slows reaction time, and that thousandth of a second could mean life or death.

    If you want to drink, either find another way home. Even the tiny rural towns I've lived in have had taxi service that would come out from the bigger towns down the road. Yes, it's expensive if the taxi has to come from 30 miles away. If you can't afford a taxi, you can't afford to drink. Or have a designated driver. If you can't be responsible enough to do that, drink at home.

    People have the right to have a drink with dinner, if they are 21. People have the right to drive, if they pass the required tests. But they do NOT have the right to endanger others by drinking and driving, one drink or five or more.


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  12. #52
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    Maybe I am reading too much into this, but seriously, I got thumbs down for posts advocating against driving drunk?

    More than anything said on this thread, that really opens my eyes as to why this continues to be such a persistent and pervasive problem.

    I still hold out hope though. It wasn't that long ago that a three martini lunch was considered the norm for a high flying business person. I certainly don't know very many places that would tolerate that any longer. Maybe one day driving drunk will also be considered a social taboo, not a right.

    Just had a driver sentenced in our area recently for killing a four month old while driving drunk on Thanksgiving.


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  13. #53
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    Aug. 9, 2007
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    If you guys had ever seen a couple who lost their only child, an 8 yr old son, to a drunk driver in broad daylight on an Atlanta interstate when the drunk rear ended their car, or talked to a wife who lost her husband, again in broad daylight on an Atlanta interstate, when a guy full of qualudes came across 6 lanes of traffic and the medium and decapitated her husband right beside her (and no, they were NOT in a convertible)...... you'd have no tolerance for drunk driving. (I tried a lot of vehicular homicide cases because I don't like drunk drivers. Many judges and prosecutors and defense lawyers are drunk drivers, so they think it's just an "accident." Nope, it's a crime, a felony, and it's as bad as standing on an interstate overpass and randomly shooting at people driving by. A drunk with a car can wipe out your life in a split second. Many DUI cases are "fixed" in judge's chambers. It is wrong.I have always felt this way, way before I was hit by a drunk driver at 7am one morning on my way to court.)

    It's just as bad to drive full of prescription downers as it is to drive full of alcohol. I cringe when I read how many cothers are on downer prescription drugs. I hope they aren't driving around when using their oxy. Drink and drug as much as you like, but don't drive when under the influence.


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  14. #54
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    Jul. 21, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Shine View Post
    Maybe I am reading too much into this, but seriously, I got thumbs down for posts advocating against driving drunk?

    More than anything said on this thread, that really opens my eyes as to why this continues to be such a persistent and pervasive problem.

    I still hold out hope though. It wasn't that long ago that a three martini lunch was considered the norm for a high flying business person. I certainly don't know very many places that would tolerate that any longer. Maybe one day driving drunk will also be considered a social taboo, not a right.
    .
    I think there is already a lot less tolerance, on a social level, for people driving drunk or "buzzed". And I don't think anyone believes people should drive impaired or have the right to do so.

    I, however, have also found this an enlightening thread. From the responses here, it seems many of you are far less concerned about government intervention into your private lives than you are about people driving while impaired. I don't see much concern about government stopping and "searching" drivers for having consumed alcohol, without even suspicion let alone probable cause. I'm a little surprised at this willingness to give the government so much power, given the tone of other threads.


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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
    I think there is already a lot less tolerance, on a social level, for people driving drunk or "buzzed". And I don't think anyone believes people should drive impaired or have the right to do so.

    I, however, have also found this an enlightening thread. From the responses here, it seems many of you are far less concerned about government intervention into your private lives than you are about people driving while impaired. I don't see much concern about government stopping and "searching" drivers for having consumed alcohol, without even suspicion let alone probable cause. I'm a little surprised at this willingness to give the government so much power, given the tone of other threads.
    I think that may be because of the nature of drinking.
    Those that drink don't see anything wrong with being a bit or very tipsy.
    The trouble is that when they drink, no one knows where that will end and since cars and driving is a very important part of our lives, drinking and driving is a very important part of practically all of our lives, we definitely need to regulate it, just as we regulate other kinds of driving.

    I think that educating people that drink only can go so far, because, well, once you take that first drink, all bets are off what you may do next, if to keep drinking and what else, like driving.
    Is the nature of the beast.



  16. #56
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    What do you mean by stopping and "searching" drivers?

    We have RIDE checkpoints here and they ask if you have consumed any alcohol. Is it different in the US?



  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Shine View Post
    What do you mean by stopping and "searching" drivers?

    We have RIDE checkpoints here and they ask if you have consumed any alcohol. Is it different in the US?
    I am not sure, but that is all checkpoints are, they talk to the drivers and wave them on, unless they smell, see alcohol or someone acting off, then the police, with reason, can search.

    Or, they stop anyone driving erratically or breaking laws like speed limits or running red lights or stop signs.



  18. #58
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    Jul. 21, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Shine View Post
    What do you mean by stopping and "searching" drivers?

    We have RIDE checkpoints here and they ask if you have consumed any alcohol. Is it different in the US?
    The police stop you, question you about your alcohol use, sniff to see if they smell it, glance around the inside of your car, ask to see your license and registration and proof of insurance, etc. That's a search. All on absolutely no suspicion of any wrongdoing - just a fishin' expedition.


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  19. #59
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    Thanks. I was picturing airport security type 'searching' but that sounds like what we have here.

    On a side note, has anyone ever blown over? Or close to?



  20. #60
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    A few more things to think about thanks NDDOT for these stats!):

    On average, someone is injured in an alcohol-related crash every two minutes in the United States. Every 30 minutes, someone dies from injuries sustained in an alcohol-related crash. That's 48 lives lost per day.

    On the average weeknight between 10 PM and 1AM, 1 in every 13 drivers is is impaired by alcohol. Between 1AM and 6 AM, that increases to 1 in every 7 drivers.

    It's estimated that one of every five Americans will be involved in an accident in which alcohol plays a role.

    33% of deaths beteen the ages of 15 and 24 are from motor vehicle crashes. About 2 out of every five of these deaths in 1996 was in an alcohol related accident.

    In ND, the average cost for every injured survivor of an alcohol-related crash is $67,000, including medical costs, lost productivity, and auto damage.

    40%-50% of all traffic fatalities involve alcohol. Alcohol is also involved in 25%-30% of non fatal motor vehicle accidents, up to 64% of fires and burn injuries, 48% of hypothermia or frostbite cases, and 20% of completed suicides.

    Crash costs in the US average $5.80 per mile driven drunk and $0.10 per mile driven sober.

    Given these facts, tell me again why we're so lenient on drunk drivers?


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