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  1. #1
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    Default Idiocracy

    Fiction or prediction?
    Discuss.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/



  2. #2
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    Prediction for sure. My husband was watching that one day and I tried to watch, but couldn't, because it was too possible and scary for me...



  3. #3
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    That movie was both painfully bad and accurate. Got his law degree at a mega store.... recliner with toilet bowl inside.... crops 'watered' with gatorade..... yeah, too possible for comfort.



  4. #4
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    I liked the movie because it was scarily possible.

    However, how do we have a rational discussion about its premise? We are not going to become a eugenics society which only allows smart people to procreate. (And there's no guarantee they would give birth to smart children, either.)

    We have already allowed big business/politics/religion/special interest groups to have huge influence on how our society functions.

    Every OT the lack of quality education being given to children is bemoaned.

    Is it inevitable that we end up like the Idiocracy movie? Or any of the dystopian predictions of authors, movie-makers, philosophers?

    Do we feel, as individuals, that we are unable to engender change?

    I often do feel helpless, one person in the universe. So I try to remember the following:

    "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng


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  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blugal View Post
    I liked the movie because it was scarily possible.

    However, how do we have a rational discussion about its premise? We are not going to become a eugenics society which only allows smart people to procreate. (And there's no guarantee they would give birth to smart children, either.)

    We have already allowed big business/politics/religion/special interest groups to have huge influence on how our society functions.

    Every OT the lack of quality education being given to children is bemoaned.

    Is it inevitable that we end up like the Idiocracy movie? Or any of the dystopian predictions of authors, movie-makers, philosophers?

    Do we feel, as individuals, that we are unable to engender change?

    I often do feel helpless, one person in the universe. So I try to remember the following:

    "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
    Easy, stop subsidizing the poor to have even more children. When they can get more money and entitlements by having more children, they do so.


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  6. #6
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    True, dressed, but I also feel that part of the issue lies in technology.

    Case in point. A 20-something was the cashier at the grocery where I take my sr dad shopping for his sr discount day. He's hard of hearing and I asked cashier to flip the cash display so my dad could see the total as the cashier spoke it. Dad's also a little slow and shaky getting cash out the wallet, and is forgetful, so he needed that display to keep track.

    Problem was the CASHIER needed the display back in order to make change. No math involved.. just hand out the total on the screen.

    Just one example of how technology is making us stupider. Never mind that short term memory isnt' being used because of our pre-programmed cel phones (I used to have a brain like Rainman for phone numbers.. now, not so much). And, auto correct for spelling typos AND grammar on the computer.

    It's no wonder when 4 people get to a four way stop nobody can use deductive reasoning to figure out who goes first..

    Rant in progress..


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dressurpferd01 View Post
    Easy, stop subsidizing the poor to have even more children. When they can get more money and entitlements by having more children, they do so.
    Yes! AND, what the hell takes 12 to 15 years to "educate" 'em? Why are we wasting megamillions on teaching children rote memorization of useless "facts," like which states we gained in the Louisiana Purchase and on what date, when almost anything like that one would EVER need to know is at your fingertips in a database? It isn't like you need to go to the library any more and dig that out, you know? Here's what I think we should be teaching:

    (1) How to speak and write the proper English language.
    (2) How to do the basic math needed for personal finance.
    (3) The BASICS of personal finance--for REAL!
    (4) U.S. Government, civics, and comparative systems worldwide.
    (5) The way legitimate science is done.
    (6) Comparative world philosophies, historical & modern overview
    (7) Introduction to marketing & media awareness
    (7) Above all, HOW TO THINK CRITICALLY about nearly EVERYTHING.

    Beyond those basics, which could be taught by the 8th grade, courses are strongly vocational-track in nature, which saves the inordinate expense of teaching everyone (including the unmotivated) absolutely everything. Kids should be taught to use technology as a tool rather than as an end in itself.
    There should be FAR less testing and far MORE thinking, which could be evaluated at the end of the year on the basis of class participation, essay writing and whether the student was actively engaged with learning.

    I feel this would be a far better use of taxpayer dollars than what we have currently, which is plainly not producing workers for the 21st century.


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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    Yes! AND, what the hell takes 12 to 15 years to "educate" 'em? Why are we wasting megamillions on teaching children rote memorization of useless "facts," like which states we gained in the Louisiana Purchase and on what date, when almost anything like that one would EVER need to know is at your fingertips in a database? It isn't like you need to go to the library any more and dig that out, you know? Here's what I think we should be teaching:

    (1) How to speak and write the proper English language.
    (2) How to do the basic math needed for personal finance.
    (3) The BASICS of personal finance--for REAL!
    (4) U.S. Government, civics, and comparative systems worldwide.
    (5) The way legitimate science is done.
    (6) Comparative world philosophies, historical & modern overview
    (7) Introduction to marketing & media awareness
    (7) Above all, HOW TO THINK CRITICALLY about nearly EVERYTHING.

    Beyond those basics, which could be taught by the 8th grade, courses are strongly vocational-track in nature, which saves the inordinate expense of teaching everyone (including the unmotivated) absolutely everything. Kids should be taught to use technology as a tool rather than as an end in itself.
    There should be FAR less testing and far MORE thinking, which could be evaluated at the end of the year on the basis of class participation, essay writing and whether the student was actively engaged with learning.

    I feel this would be a far better use of taxpayer dollars than what we have currently, which is plainly not producing workers for the 21st century.
    I think I love you! Lol, kidding, but really you're exactly right. Problem is the damn teachers unions would never allow that to happen.


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  9. #9
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    Excellent idea, which more closely resembles how education USED to be. Yanno, back when we had great thinkers who leapt forward with great inventions, new theories, etc. Now? Not as much, and certain not as life changing. The telescope? Awesome invention that engendered new thought, new ideas, new theories and new science. Ohh the new mini-iPad...um, not so much. Invention of antibiotics? Saved untold millions. We still don't have a cure or vaccine for HIV after 30+ years, though I hear there is something now that lowers the risk of those positive for it to spread it. Cancer? Well...we have the HPV "vaccine" which lowers the chances of getting certain strains.
    COTH's official mini-donk enabler

    "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl



  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dressurpferd01 View Post
    I think I love you! Lol, kidding, but really you're exactly right. Problem is the damn teachers unions would never allow that to happen.
    You are dead wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    Yes! AND, what the hell takes 12 to 15 years to "educate" 'em? Why are we wasting megamillions on teaching children rote memorization of useless "facts," like which states we gained in the Louisiana Purchase and on what date, when almost anything like that one would EVER need to know is at your fingertips in a database? It isn't like you need to go to the library any more and dig that out, you know? Here's what I think we should be teaching:

    (1) How to speak and write the proper English language.
    (2) How to do the basic math needed for personal finance.
    (3) The BASICS of personal finance--for REAL!
    (4) U.S. Government, civics, and comparative systems worldwide.
    (5) The way legitimate science is done.
    (6) Comparative world philosophies, historical & modern overview
    (7) Introduction to marketing & media awareness
    (7) Above all, HOW TO THINK CRITICALLY about nearly EVERYTHING.

    Beyond those basics, which could be taught by the 8th grade, courses are strongly vocational-track in nature, which saves the inordinate expense of teaching everyone (including the unmotivated) absolutely everything. Kids should be taught to use technology as a tool rather than as an end in itself.
    There should be FAR less testing and far MORE thinking, which could be evaluated at the end of the year on the basis of class participation, essay writing and whether the student was actively engaged with learning.

    I feel this would be a far better use of taxpayer dollars than what we have currently, which is plainly not producing workers for the 21st century.
    It's is pretty much a teachers' union manifesto on what our jobs should be. The more testing is relied upon to judge the value of a student, a teacher, or a school, the more dumbed-down the curriculum will become.

    I believe Texas even outlawed the teaching of critical thinking.

    The common core state standards address a lot of these issues. However, the CCSS are also a racket in that no one knows what the testing will look like, but they do know that it will all be done on computers--yes, every child in every school will need to have access to a computer at the same time.

    But back to the movie, dressurpferd, if you ever sat down and watched it, you might recognize Fox News, which owes its existence to non-critical thinkers.
    2012 goal: learn to ride like a Barn Rat

    A helmet saved my life.



  11. #11
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    Default

    A great movie, and so very easy to believe it is prediction : )



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dressurpferd01 View Post
    Easy, stop subsidizing the poor to have even more children. When they can get more money and entitlements by having more children, they do so.
    Oh, yes. I'm sure the rich would never think of taking the dependent child credit on their taxes.
    2012 goal: learn to ride like a Barn Rat

    A helmet saved my life.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHorseProblem View Post

    But back to the movie, dressurpferd, if you ever sat down and watched it, you might recognize Fox News, which owes its existence to non-critical thinkers.
    Or as Jon Stewart refers to it, bull sh** mountain


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
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    Lady Eboshi--Actually, we DO try to teach all of those things--the BASICS. And I SO think we need to track kids after 8th grade like in the UK so they go for more education or into training in a useful career.

    Dressur--You really should get an understanding of something before you vent about it. The unions have nothing to do with dumbing down curriculum. If anything, they help keep teachers who DO their jobs and demand standards from getting fired because those are the ONLY ones who get complaints from parents and kids. I actually think testing is useful because we have some common standard, so when the crap teacher that all of the kids love has kids who can't pass basic educational information three grades below, you have actual data on that. And, as TheHorseProblem said, we're moving to a national standard so when we do test, we have some kind of accuracy, otherwise Texas puts creationism in the science curriculum.

    I was watching 20/20 last night and they did a story of the people who have gotten out of the crazy Mormon cult with the guy in jail. One of the things they went over was that those people do not have to follow any curriculum and were teaching what they wanted. Those kids were taught that the idiot prophet was the president, had no history but Mormon, and an 18 year old couldn't read.

    I've been having this discussion with my friends for 30 years. In general, the stupid people seem to breed the most because that's all they have in life. All the smart people have few or no children. But, has it really changed in history? We've had amazing geniuses throughout, and I don't think their parents were particularly smart. DaVinci? Einstein? Gallileo? Franklin?

    I think the key is offering education. I think it's myopic and lacking understanding to think stupid people are having more kids to get "entitlements." And, if you actually think that, the more you should want to shove "entitlements" like education, healthcare and social services at them, because that's WAY cheaper than paying for life in prison, continuing to have more children, and medical care they can't pay for.

    Maybe Idiocracy is the R plan. They wanted to force all people to give birth to every child. That's sure a good way to create a mass of stupid people one way or another.



  15. #15
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    Agree with TheHorseProblem--teachers are totally in favor of a system that values critical thinking, logical thought and vocational training options rather than testing out the wazoo on rote memorization and a cookie-cutter approach!

    I think what's most important is a complete overhaul of education. That's not something that teachers are opposed to; that's something that bureaucrats and administrators and lobbyists for textbook companies and the religious right are opposed to. Teachers, at least good teachers, don't care about grades; they care about measuring and assessing actual learning. Right now nothing in the standardized educational system measures the whole child--critical thinking, development of ethics, self-esteem (and not the touchy-feely "everyone's awesome" way), etc., and those are things that determine what kind of parent and general human citizen that child will be. Instead, it's all about being able to fit every peg in the system, square/round/oblong/whatever, into the same square hole so that we can tell if they're ready to become Real People. And if that's our focus, we're going to be stuck with a bunch of really dumbed-down squares.



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