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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    The answer for your sister who needs to buy and wants to work IS the strike. Assuming folks will take any work they can get, it behooves them to be part of the effort to make that pay a living wage.

    It surprises me when the 'have nots' spend lots of time explaining why the 'have even lesses' should STFU. Why is that in their best interest?
    My sister does not work at Walmart, she only shops there and it is a nicer one than some of the other posters seem to have in their area. I fail to see how this protest that is going on benefits my sister in any way.

    I also don't get your last two sentences, but then again I don't get many of your posts.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crackerdog View Post
    My sister does not work at Walmart, she only shops there and it is a nicer one than some of the other posters seem to have in their area. I fail to see how this protest that is going on benefits my sister in any way.

    I also don't get your last two sentences, but then again I don't get many of your posts.
    I'll explain. The reply was to those who are living in areas with depressed wages and therefore need to watch every penny. They think that's reason enough to patronize stores that are doing the underpaying. But that supports the company that functions just fine underpaying people... and so the cycle continues.

    Is that more clear?

    My point as well, is that I think some of those people believe they are somehow better or better off or insulated from the effects of ambient poverty. I don't think it's true, but rather, short-sighted. And the in-fighting among two groups, here, the "have nots" and the "have even lesses" is such a waste of time. It's a form of economic cannibalism that insures the "haves" aren't the target.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    4 members found this post helpful.

  3. #143
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    Jan. 18, 2002
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    canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dare1 View Post
    I refuse to shop there as well. We had a Zellers ( try to go to Canadian stores) but it is changing to a Target in January so I guess I will spend my money at the local businesses. I find my local grocery store (no frills) way cheaper than walmart anyway. I know the areas around Kitchener put up a good fight to keep Walmart out but did lose the fight unfortunately.
    Just to keep this in context, workers deserve a wage that will allow them to live on. It is also the law here that everyone is entitled to their break which means their full break and if I was told I could not have my break then I would be doing something about it.
    I hope this strike improves their working conditions.
    Dare, our town voted to keep walmart out. You are right there is cheaper places than Walmart to shop. The workers here in walmart seem to have it way better then the U.S. walmart, thats because we have laws here that protect the workers and of course the company doesn't have to worry about providing health care because our governments do.
    Our Zellers is closing also and becoming a Target. I also found Zellers just a cheap as walmart.
    I also hope the strike improves working conditions.
    www.tayvalleyfarm.com
    My other home.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #144
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    Washington State
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    I'll explain. The reply was to those who are living in areas with depressed wages and therefore need to watch every penny. They think that's reason enough to patronize stores that are doing the underpaying. But that supports the company that functions just fine underpaying people... and so the cycle continues.

    Is that more clear?

    My point as well, is that I think some of those people believe they are somehow better or better off or insulated from the effects of ambient poverty. I don't think it's true, but rather, short-sighted. And the in-fighting among two groups, here, the "have nots" and the "have even lesses" is such a waste of time. It's a form of economic cannibalism that insures the "haves" aren't the target.
    Yes that is more clear but isn't an answer for my sister is it? She doesn't want have to shop at Walmart. She doesn't make enough money to shop elsewhere on a regular basis right now, so should she not shop?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crackerdog View Post
    Yes that is more clear but isn't an answer for my sister is it? She doesn't want have to shop at Walmart. She doesn't make enough money to shop elsewhere on a regular basis right now, so should she not shop?
    Others have asked this as well... of course, meaning it rhetorically as in "F U, I didn't choose to be so poor that I have to shop at Walmart, so I'll do so with impunity and thank you for not making me feel bad while doing it."

    I think being poor sucks. I think trying to make ends meet while on strike really, really sucks. What helps? You decide that you-- the consumer, too-- has something to gain by supporting people who are demanding a living wage. Your sister, as someone not employed by Walmart, is likely to suffer less for the strikers' efforts than they. You pinch pennies harder to shop somewhere else until Walmart gets better.

    It sounds simple. It's also hard.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #146
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    I've found that if you watch sales, Walmart is no cheaper, and many times more expensive, than a regular grocery store.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    7 members found this post helpful.

  7. #147
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    Jul. 14, 2006
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    Who is the us in your "let's"?


    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Yes, let's let them starve, shall we?



  8. #148
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    Nov. 8, 2005
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    NC
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    It's so easy to oversimplify and reflexively take one side or the other based on gut feelings and the sentiments we found appealing when we had no life experience or merely bitterness or herd-warmth we developed when we were older based on what we saw.

    I was reflexively anti-union for years because when I was 8 or 10, I listened carefully to my uncle who at that time enthusiastically belonged to the Teamster's Union, but was outraged by the corruption of Dave Beck and hoped that Jimmy Hoffa would make life better. (My godfather/uncle worked his way up from driving a truck into management before competition and management nepotism bankrupted his firm and wiped him out at age 48 because he'd believed in his company even while he was driving the truck, and unfortunately put all his bonus eggs into the company basket.) What I learned from him was that the unions were corrupt and exploited the rank-and-file almost as badly as the people on the other side of the table would have if there were no unions. That gave me an anti-labor bias, paradoxically learned from a pro-labor uncle.

    Oddly enough it wasn't until I was in management that I began to develop empathy and sympathy for the front line workers who turn the wheels every day.

    I learned because I came to know them personally and in detail with respect to what they did -- such that I realized virtually every one of them -- including the folks who moved from New Jersey and had they lived the accustomed life-scripts would have hated the company on principle -- were good and honest people who were repeatedly harmed by stupid management policies, often because their own managers lacked the balls to explain up the line what the consequences of stupid policies would be.

    In terms of the damage they can do to people and the business, there is often nothing worse than an incompetent middle manager kissing up to the higher-level folks.

    By the time I joined senior management, I think I'd become very objective. It's a tough tightrope to walk, balancing the tension between the financial and competitive needs of the business with the legitimate working condition and 'fairness' needs of the frontline people who turn the wheels. (Happily, pay and benefits were never an issue until very late in the game for me.)

    It's also tough to be fair and objective when folks on both sides of the traditional divide are suspicious when you don't say or do what they might expect people in that role would automatically do, if you want to maintain credibility in both camps. But eventually both sides begin to trust your judgment. (At least until true idiots [from France] acquire the company, which is why I quit.)

    Throughout my almost two decade career with my last company I went, for example, to people's funerals who weren't even in my department because I knew and cared about them, and continued to do so even after I'd quit, because it wasn't for show.

    Was the only member of senior management who when the plant closing was a 'done deal' met with and bought a grand dinner on my personal budget for everyone remotely connected with the program for which I was responsible, and on their last day when their plant was closed 1000 miles way, also was alone in sending everyone a deeply sincere message of appreciation and regret. I'd have flown out but for other commitments. There's a reason that a bunch of my FB friends years later are from that plant at all levels. Sad that I could do no more for them than care.

    Competent managers who understand and can rationally balance everyone's needs in the interest of keeping the engine that pays our wages and salaries tuned up, are damned rare. My point here is not to pat myself on the back. My point is that honest people at all levels can find the means to work in the mutual best interests of everyone instead of trying to bash and demonize the folks who 'traditionally' oppose them. When they do, they can optimize the returns and benefits for the firm and everyone involved on all levels. There's a reason that my team always exceeded our goals and carried all the others in the sector who did not.
    If I knew what I were doing, why would I take lessons?

    "Things should be as simple as possible,
    but no simpler." - Einstein


    9 members found this post helpful.

  9. #149
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    Jun. 16, 2001
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    I think what the country needs is to make opening and operating small business easier.

    Amricans need to stop being watched like they were potential terrorists* so that people can actually go into their garage or shed and invent the next apple computer, flying car or free energy device and that will not happen if people fear that they will be taken away as a suspected terrorist.

    What we need as society to do is break up the big box stores by eliminating bulk price breaks. If Staples buys 1000 gross of pentel pens the small stationary store should be able to buy 1 gross at the same price.

    Every dollar spent at a big box store is a dollar that does not stay in the community. The profit is siphoned off and sent to wall street and never returns. The small stationary store is no doubt run by a person who lives in the community and will spend the profit in the community. They should be teaching this in school.


    *Actually it is the alphabet agencies doing the watching that are terrorizing the taxpaying citizens but we will save that for later.
    The Denver Broncos went to visit an orphanage. "It's so sad looking into their faces so devoid of hope." Sara aged 6


    4 members found this post helpful.

  10. #150
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    Jul. 20, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by enjoytheride View Post
    Walmart does not force full time employees to become part time and lose their health insurance, that is ridiculous.

    It is possible that if you want to restrict your availability at some point after your hire date that the only hours available would make you become part time (for example, saying that you could work weekends and evenings at your hire date, then changing your mind later). That would be the associate's choice. Full time employees are required to meet a certain number of hours each week to keep their full time status and they will not be scheduled below those hours.

    The only time I have ever heard of a full time associate losing health insurance is if they make the choice to become part time. Like it or not you can't hire on for a company that does most of its business after 4pm and on the weekends and demand to not work during those times.

    There are several different options for health insurance, with different deductables, out of pocket expenses, and doctor choices.
    Not true. Of the group that was hired with my friend, he's the only one that still has full time hours. The others have had hours reduced and not because they restricted their availablility. It happens.

    And yes, there are choices with the health plan and he has the best one. It does not even begin to compare to the kind of policy he had when he worked in industry. And most of the full time folks can't afford the premiums that he can. He is in a lucky position that he does not need to live totally off the WM salary. if he did he'd lose his house. As it is he will be paying 25% of his take home salary per month in health insurance. Most people can't afford that when they are living below the poverty level, so they go without..... or they take the high deducible option, which still leaves them paying a fortune out of pocket if they need care.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  11. #151
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    Jul. 20, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacardi1 View Post
    You don't think 2% versus 13% isn't a big difference?
    Add to that the range. Take a look at cashiers for example. Much bigger range at Costco than Walmart. Walmart employees have a very limited opportunity for advancement and their pay scale policies limit the amount long tem employees can get, so that ulimately you earm much less over the long term if you stay there.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #152
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    Sep. 26, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by ynl063w View Post
    Wait. You will make a special trip to Walmart for Ziploc bags? I know I've been defending Walmart here, but in all honesty I don't EVER shop there. I live within one mile of Acme, Giant, Walgreens, and CVS that all have weekly specials. I refuse to drive the 2 miles and battle the extra traffic to Target (Walmart is even further, so completely out of the question) to save a few pennies on anything (and I do know it's not worth my time or money). How much are you really saving??
    The only reason I do that is because the Walmart in my area is on the way to the barn. So I only have to do is pull off this one road, turn into the parking lot and then go back out. It might be a total of 200 yards extra to do this and since I drive a hybrid...

    I wouldn't make a special trip for it because I wouldn't save anything


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  13. #153
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    Sep. 24, 2004
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    Piedmont Triad, North Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5 View Post
    I think what the country needs is to make opening and operating small business easier.


    What we need as society to do is break up the big box stores by eliminating bulk price breaks. If Staples buys 1000 gross of pentel pens the small stationary store should be able to buy 1 gross at the same price.
    You contradict yourself. Seems like you ask for a lighter gov't touch then advocate for a gov't kick in the groin.

    There are legitimate reasons for bulk price breaks. Try buying a single paper clip vs buying a box of them.

    I was involved in a business selling to Sam's/Walmart ... We had a love/hate relationship. One side S/W bought enough product that we could dedicate a significant portion of company's capacity to their product. No change overs, no downtime, order material in bulk, hire&schedule people far in advance, spread fixed costs over more product, ...very good for business. On the other side... Low low prices, demanding delivery schedules, demanding quality standards, exacting packaging specifications, PITA in many ways. Many, many eggs in a single basket.

    Yet we couldn't afford not to deal with them... and give them almost ruinous bulk price breaks.


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  14. #154
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by hosspuller View Post
    You contradict yourself. Seems like you ask for a lighter gov't touch then advocate for a gov't kick in the groin.

    There are legitimate reasons for bulk price breaks. Try buying a single paper clip vs buying a box of them.

    I was involved in a business selling to Sam's/Walmart ... We had a love/hate relationship. One side S/W bought enough product that we could dedicate a significant portion of company's capacity to their product. No change overs, no downtime, order material in bulk, hire&schedule people far in advance, spread fixed costs over more product, ...very good for business. On the other side... Low low prices, demanding delivery schedules, demanding quality standards, exacting packaging specifications, PITA in many ways. Many, many eggs in a single basket.

    Yet we couldn't afford not to deal with them... and give them almost ruinous bulk price breaks.
    Try serious farming, where you are also a price taker, not maker.

    No matter what you do, you have to learn to play within the rules and make do with what you get, or go out on a limb and try to start something different on your own.
    The trouble there, few can make that work, the volume is not there and without volume, you lose efficiency.

    What is the rate of failed starter business in five years, something like 80-90%?


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  15. #155
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    Nov. 18, 2010
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    california
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Try serious farming, where you are also a price taker, not maker.

    No matter what you do, you have to learn to play within the rules and make do with what you get, or go out on a limb and try to start something different on your own.
    The trouble there, few can make that work, the volume is not there and without volume, you lose efficiency.

    What is the rate of failed starter business in five years, something like 80-90%?
    That was the point of the post by 5 to support small businesses not corporate retail. I buy at the local farms and the big supermarket for some things, but our local super market also buys local produce and stock organicproducts and grassfed beef. It is an effort but local is important !


    4 members found this post helpful.

  16. #156
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    Sep. 24, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Try serious farming, where you are also a price taker, not maker.

    No matter what you do, you have to learn to play within the rules and make do with what you get, or go out on a limb and try to start something different on your own.
    The trouble there, few can make that work, the volume is not there and without volume, you lose efficiency.

    What is the rate of failed starter business in five years, something like 80-90%?
    And that is an argument against increasing the tax rates. The goal is to hold out the prize of fabulous wealth against the risk of failure and loss of your start-up money. Like a lottery ticket, except there is an element of effort & talent vs pure chance. Confiscate earned wealth with high tax rates and kill the goose that produces jobs & wealth.


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  17. #157
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    Nov. 18, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by hosspuller View Post
    And that is an argument against increasing the tax rates. The goal is to hold out the prize of fabulous wealth against the risk of failure and loss of your start-up money. Like a lottery ticket, except there is an element of effort & talent vs pure chance. Confiscate earned wealth with high tax rates and kill the goose that produces jobs & wealth.
    But taxes and their rates are also a function of what is considered "taxable" hence the deductions for business expenses. That is the element of our tax code that allows small business to pay less. So the rate is only a small piece of the elephant.

    Edit: Gotta love thumbs down for telling the truth about "tax rates".
    Last edited by stolen virtue; Nov. 25, 2012 at 04:53 PM.


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  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmedHope View Post

    By all means continue to shop there but remember that the person helping you find your cheap good is probably on some sort of government assistance.
    Which Wal-Mart encourages.
    I've had a flyer stapled to by pay check multiple times saying I am eligible and should apply.

    If your company is pulling in a revenue that exceeds COUNTRIES, you can surely afford to pay your workers a decent wage that they can live on.
    This sums it up to me: fair, humane treatment and a living wage.
    It shouldn't be too much to ask.

    As for the comments from some of the posters?
    The words of Ebenezer Scrooge come to mind: "Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"
    "if they don't like it they can scoop poop"

    A FINE ROMANCE - JC Reg Thoroughbred - GOLD Premium CSHA - ISR/OLDNA Approved
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  19. #159
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    Dec. 31, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred View Post
    "if they don't like it they can scoop poop"

    I guess we differ, because I think ANY job is honorable. I listed quite a few self starter type jobs that require little to no training/talent, yet could pay more than a full time job at min wage. People don't HAVE to work at Walmart. We have several "pooper scooper" businesses here in town, that all do fairly well. They usually have a couple of family members working together. They are reliable and do a good job (according to some of my friends...I scoop my own dog's). So is that job "beneath" someone to do? Apparently the people that own their own business think it is worthwhile, and don't have to put up with working for someone else. My point of the post you refererred to is that they CAN start their own business without investing hardly anything except time. But most people are not self motivated to do so, and some find "some" jobs "beneath" them.


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  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred View Post
    This sums it up to me: fair, humane treatment and a living wage.
    It shouldn't be too much to ask.

    As for the comments from some of the posters?
    The words of Ebenezer Scrooge come to mind: "Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"
    "if they don't like it they can scoop poop"

    I think of the other Scrooge line "If they are going to die, they had better do it, and reduce the surplus population."
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    3 members found this post helpful.

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