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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamantane View Post
    The "fiscal cliff" is high political theater, a contrived drama for the talking heads. I find it interesting that the term wasn't even visible until, amazingly, the morning AFTER the election that changed nothing.

    As far as dividends go, they are taxed twice, which is ridiculous. The corporation pays taxes on them and then they are taxed again to the recipient. They should either be tax-free to the corporation or tax-free to the recipient.

    It would be worthwhile noting that by far, retirees and retirement funds are those most impacted by these taxes.
    It's ok.
    The corporation won't overpay taxes, don't you worry.

    And the recipient is being taxed on them as income. But I am sure there are ways to avoid those as well, legally...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  2. #122
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    I don't shop at Walmart because I don't have to, we make enough to be able to shop elsewhere but there was a time when that wasn't the case. My sister and her two sons are living barely above the poverty line. She has a job and does not take government assistance and Walmart is the only place she can regularly afford to shop at. So I can't jump on the righteous bandwagon here and say "Down with the evil giant", where then would she get the things she needs to provide for her family's basic needs? A local store that charges higher prices? She already shops Goodwill for their clothes. Farmer's markets that charge higher prices for their produce? Shop at a local butcher? Well out of her price range.

    So, all of you in the higher tax brackets, what is the answer for her?

    Our local Walmart just went supersized and it was a welcome thing here in my very small town with so many people out of work. Sometimes any job is better than no job.
    Last edited by Crackerdog; Nov. 24, 2012 at 12:40 PM. Reason: wrong plural form


    7 members found this post helpful.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post
    WM has only been in Canada for a few years and, most people I know, do not like WM and consider it an intruder. I refuse to shop there like I refuse to shop at most box stores (Home Depot, Future Shop, Best Buy, etc.). I will drive further to patronize my pet store for quality products and superior service. I will go to my local grocery store for excellent fresh produce at lower prices. I will go to the farmers' market (ironically across the street from WM).
    I don't even look at their flyers.
    I don't patronize Costco and Sam's closed a few years ago. No way am I paying to have the "privilege" of buying stuff in a store.
    Here minimum wage is $10.50/hr and we have health care.
    I refuse to shop there as well. We had a Zellers ( try to go to Canadian stores) but it is changing to a Target in January so I guess I will spend my money at the local businesses. I find my local grocery store (no frills) way cheaper than walmart anyway. I know the areas around Kitchener put up a good fight to keep Walmart out but did lose the fight unfortunately.
    Just to keep this in context, workers deserve a wage that will allow them to live on. It is also the law here that everyone is entitled to their break which means their full break and if I was told I could not have my break then I would be doing something about it.
    I hope this strike improves their working conditions.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jsalem View Post
    Again, I really don't pretend to have all of the the answers but I think that so many of you are being so narrow minded. You say that the CEOs make "zillions of dollars". Business owners need to be compensated for the risks they take starting and running their businesses. They should be making more than their cashiers! Substantially more.
    I actually agree with you. BUT NOT to the point where the CEOs are foisting off their cost of doing business onto ordinary American citizens. We are PAYING for Wal-Mart employees' food stamps. We are PAYING for their health care. There is a line between making an honest, legitimate profit and keeping the bulk of it for yourself - with which I take no issue - and taking home $134 million with the US taxpayer footing the bill. And that, quite frankly, should be illegal.
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief


    7 members found this post helpful.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    An example of savings-
    The coffee I drink is 3.00 at WM...4.69 at Albertsons
    Cat food cans- 13.00 or so at WM/ 15.79 at Albertsons


    On average WM is 1-3.00 cheaper on the same items


    Albertsons here also got rid of self checkout lanes, so it takes longer to get out of the store.
    The WallyWorlds near me have nasty grocery sections. Rotting produce and leaky packages of meat that all have that iridescent sheen on it. It doesn't save much if you have to toss it within hours of purchase, or if it lands you in the emergency room.

    Probably not unique to WalMart, but the last time I was there (about 8-9 months ago), I watched one of the stockers jam his hand down the back of his pants, give his ass crack a vigorous scratch, and resume stocking cheese.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crackerdog View Post
    My sister and her two sons are living barely above the poverty line.

    So, all of you in the higher tax brackets, what is the answer for her?

    Our local Walmart just went supersized and it was a welcome thing here in my very small town with so many people out of work. Sometimes any job is better than no job.
    The answer for your sister who needs to buy and wants to work IS the strike. Assuming folks will take any work they can get, it behooves them to be part of the effort to make that pay a living wage.

    It surprises me when the 'have nots' spend lots of time explaining why the 'have even lesses' should STFU. Why is that in their best interest?
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    4 members found this post helpful.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    The answer for your sister who needs to buy and wants to work IS the strike. Assuming folks will take any work they can get, it behooves them to be part of the effort to make that pay a living wage.

    It surprises me when the 'have nots' spend lots of time explaining why the 'have even lesses' should STFU. Why is that in their best interest?
    And then what?
    We had a company strike to get more, or keep more. Have's all the way around, the company closed. Good work.

    To many of the have-nots Walamrt is a step up.
    For a lot of those it will be the only step they will take, true. But for some it's only the first step.
    But in reality you cannot demand higher wages in an area with no alternatives.
    Wages are also driven by demand and supply in the area. When the good workers are hired away from the poorer paying jobs, raises will happen as the quality of the staff goes down.
    (and that is probably also a reason why Honda does not want it's suppliers setting up shop within a 40 mile radius from the plant...)


    Yes. Walmart could be so much better for its workers, by the sheer size of the company alone.

    but it's far from the worst place you'll ever work, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  8. #128
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    It is not a black and white issue, no one is asking that workers make anything close to what CEOs make.

    I grew up poor, my mother waited tables and we lived on her tips. However, the owners of the restaurant had profit sharing and health insurance, only for my mother but it helped. She worked there until she retired at 64. Most of the staff worked there for many many years because of the profit sharing. The restaurant opened after WWII and is still in business and it is still atleast a 30 minute wait to get seated.

    That is not the norm for most businesses. It is get as much out of your workers and give them as little benefits as possible. My own corporation spent 2007-2010 cutting back benefits, there is not anything left to cut. It is the corporate culture and there will be more strikes as there should be until there is more of a balance. Walmart is the worst of the worst.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    I saw a bumper sticker that sums up our country's mindset perfectly-
    "Keep working...millions of people on welfare are depending on you"
    Do you actually know anyone on welfare? Everyone I've ever met on welfare works their ass off. If you think welfare is enough money to survive, you're sorely mistaken.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  10. #130
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    I don't think you can call it a strike. WM isn't unionized
    So I think it is more rightly called a protest.

    Second, while there were some employees protesting, a significant number appear to be shills bussed in. Saw a great interview where the folks yelling and screaming were unable to articulate at even a basic level, why the were even there. saw one of the organizers at a MD protest admit in an interview that the union helped organize the protest - a legal no no....oh well, forget the law, who needs it when the current make up of the NRLB reads like an attendance list of a Teamsters convention.

    Walmart has a pretty low turnover rate for a retail employer, so they cant be all evil. Lots of people are helped economically by the low prices they offer. Until the Walmart employees themselves vote to unionize, which they haven't, i don't see the issue.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tha Ridge View Post
    Do you actually know anyone on welfare? Everyone I've ever met on welfare works their ass off. If you think welfare is enough money to survive, you're sorely mistaken.
    Yes...my 25 yr old niece that is perfectly healthy but doesn't want to work, and my brother, who also is. Neither work at all. My niece has quit or been fired from any job she's had, for showing up late and having a poor work ethic.


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  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Do you really know the facts behind the Hostess closing? That this is the 2nd bankruptcy, that the workers, over the years, have given up pay and benefits? That the corporation was bought out by a private equity firm that loaded it up with more debt and management fees but made no changes to make it more profitable? That before the bankruptcy filing, the CEO was awarded a 300% pay increase and the executives 80 to 100% increases? That the corporation hadn't been paying into the worker's pension fund for a year?

    You can't blame this one on a union...you can blame it on bad management.

    As far as "if things were as bad as the few would tell you, you'd have a lot more people who are actual employees out on strike." They're afraid, afraid of losing the only job they have and maybe the only job available to them...did you forget, we have an unemployment problem.

    Do you not care that the taxpayer has to subsidize the low wage Walmart worker with food stamps, medicaid, housing benefits and tax credits? We pay, we just don't pay at the store.
    It was the unions fault, pure and simple. The Teamsters didnt want to strike, they didnt want thousands of members on the streets. The Bakery Union was just stubborn, wouldnt take a secret vote of their members to see if they wanted to strike or not. They called Hostess' bluff, and lost. And its just stupid to blame the problems on the CEOs pay increases. Had they given those increases to the union members, it would have been pennies to the unions workers hourly rates. In other words, it wouldnt have made a bit of difference.

    Did you give any thought to the fact that those union workers even had a job after the first bankruptcy? They could have just shut down right then, but they didnt. And saying the taxpayer subsidises the Walmart worker is ignorant. If I want to go work part-time, I can get subsidized by the Government too. Or work part time at the grocery, or Home Depot, or anywhere else that is retail. Or I can go get another job, being as Im only working part time. So its up to the worker if he wants to work or not.

    Walmart is entry level work. Period. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. If you want to make a decent living, then you have to get the skills to work a decent job. Why is that so hard to understand? I am not going to a minimum wage job thinking Im going to buy a house, feed a family, and take a vacation.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    The WallyWorlds near me have nasty grocery sections. Rotting produce and leaky packages of meat that all have that iridescent sheen on it. It doesn't save much if you have to toss it within hours of purchase, or if it lands you in the emergency room.
    Well, that situation must vary from location to location, because our Walmart here has wonderful fresh produce & meat departments.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by halo View Post
    And saying the taxpayer subsidises the Walmart worker is ignorant. If I want to go work part-time, I can get subsidized by the Government too. Or work part time at the grocery, or Home Depot, or anywhere else that is retail. Or I can go get another job, being as Im only working part time. So its up to the worker if he wants to work or not.

    Walmart is entry level work. Period. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. If you want to make a decent living, then you have to get the skills to work a decent job. Why is that so hard to understand? I am not going to a minimum wage job thinking Im going to buy a house, feed a family, and take a vacation.
    You are the first person to actually address my complaint (and others) that taxpayers are helping to pay Walmart's labor cost. I appreciate it.

    But I don't get your rebuttal. One of the issues in this case is that Walmart workers *do* want to work full time and cannot. But ditto the people who have jobs capped at, say, 39 hours per week so that they are ineligible for health- and retirement benefits. It's a huge problem because work, at bottom, was meant to pay the costs of living life.

    Are you saying that those who are working part-time are looking forward to taking government handouts?

    And I'd agree with you that a badly-paying part time retail job looks on paper like an entry-level job. In effect, that really means that someone or something else is paying the rest of that person's living expenses. But plenty of people in this thread have pointed out that workers are taking these jobs without the intention of treating them as "extras" to some other source of income.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    3 members found this post helpful.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by jr View Post
    I don't think you can call it a strike. WM isn't unionized
    So I think it is more rightly called a protest.

    Second, while there were some employees protesting, a significant number appear to be shills bussed in. Saw a great interview where the folks yelling and screaming were unable to articulate at even a basic level, why the were even there. saw one of the organizers at a MD protest admit in an interview that the union helped organize the protest - a legal no no....oh well, forget the law, who needs it when the current make up of the NRLB reads like an attendance list of a Teamsters convention.

    Walmart has a pretty low turnover rate for a retail employer, so they cant be all evil. Lots of people are helped economically by the low prices they offer. Until the Walmart employees themselves vote to unionize, which they haven't, i don't see the issue.
    Have you ever been on either side of a union organizing effort? My husband's company was, he was the general manager of one of the largest manufacturing plants in Baltimore. Dirty tricks on both sides, he was very anti-union at the time, now he says that the employees deserved a union.

    We had death threats made against us, obscene phone calls, the works, but what the company did in intimidation was just as bad.

    Right now, the problem is the job market is so crappy, that employers can treat their employees like dirt. At some point, things will improve.

    For example, my husband is now in sales. Two years ago, his company refused to raise the reimbursement rate for gas even as the prices climbed. It cost us money just to turn the car on. The owner of the company's answer...be glad you have a job. Well, he found a different company and took all his clients with him. Very satisfying.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  16. #136
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    LauraKY, sorry your family was threatened. Of course, that sort of moronic activity takes place on both sides. I've seen workers speaking against union interests threatened as well.

    And yes, I've been involved in working with unions and collective bargaining activities.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    I'm not trying to be a reverse snob here either, Ridge, but when you live on a budget sometimes you just don't HAVE that kind of option. I did not want to, and started out not doing so, but I do buy my meds at Wal-Mart. Understand that these meds make it possible for me to do things like get out of a chair, get into and out of a car, WALK, and therefore hold down a full-time job. The price differential between the meds at Drug Store A and Wal-Mart is $45.00/mo. to $15.00/mo. My PCP was actually the one who suggested buying my meds there, and I was stunned by the price differential. It may be difficult for you to understand that for a single person living alone in the rural South, that $30/mo. pays for FOOD for TWO WEEKS. So I do my grocery shopping elsewhere but I certainly do use the Wal-Mart Pharmacy. I can't afford not to.

    With all of that said, however, I do support the Wal-Mart strikers, b/c I don't see why Wal-Mart cannot pay a living wage.
    That's not being a reverse snob at all... You're the first person to actually answer my question. I wanted some hard numbers—$30 is an absolutely justifiable difference. (The very amount that made me switch from a name-brand to a generic prescription, actually.) So I appreciate the explanation, and I also appreciate that you're cognizant of Wal-Mart's shortcomings too.


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  18. #138
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    I have to say I've never left a Walmart so impressed with the low-end employees that I thought they should be able to buy a three bedroom house and feed four kids on the wages they're earning. Crap job, crap employee, crap pay. I don't expect terrific service. I expect to wait in line a bit. Luckily, at my Walmart, the $7.50-9/hr employees manage to keep the produce stocked and not rotting like some of you have (perhaps fictitiously) described. Perhaps some of you think this is a job whose skills demand that the employees should be getting $16 or so an hour (which would be more than I make at the small business where I work very hard and provide excellent service, multi-tasking every hour, and additional creative work without being asked, continuously impressing our customers and other staff and owners). I shopped at Walmart today, got fresh produce for the absolute lowest prices around, helped keep lots of people employed (that isn't why I go shopping, but seems to be a motivator for some of you. But isn't Walmart one of the top-maybe the top?- private employers in the nation? Clearly people want to work there), and saved money. I'm really not sure who lost out here. As for the supplementing with taxes to cover the other costs that Walmart employees incur due to having families to support and no means to support them... well, I am against that too. Hopefully they can work hard at Walmart and advance, but I guess there isn't much incentive for it if taxpayers are filling in the rest.


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  19. #139
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    Then there is those like I am and so many here, that come from rural areas without stores even in the little towns and don't drive well and can't see well to drive into town and thru the city streets and traffic.
    There are two WMs on the outskirts I can get to, not any other grocery store, the others are inside of town.

    Even if I wanted to shop somewhere else, I would have to find someone to drive me there!
    All why? To avoid shopping at WM? Crazy idea.

    By the way, our WMs have nice people working there, some have been there for years and know me, even if they are a very large store.
    One stop and back to the country, the stuff there is ok, who needs caviar or any other such WM may not carry?

    I think that maybe not all WMs are the same?


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  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frog View Post
    As for the supplementing with taxes to cover the other costs that Walmart employees incur due to having families to support and no means to support them... well, I am against that too. Hopefully they can work hard at Walmart and advance, but I guess there isn't much incentive for it if taxpayers are filling in the rest.
    Yes, let's let them starve, shall we?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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