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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calvincrowe View Post
    Religious freedom means the right to practice your religion freely in this country. All religions. This topic was on NPR a few years back, old news. I have no problem with a business allowing their employees to have a choice in what holidays (holy days) they take off from work. And, news to some of the US--there was NEVER, EVER prayer in public schools. Any that occurred violated the Constitution and that's why it is "not allowed". Gosh, I wish Americans would quit cherry picking from the Constitution to fit their own needs.
    Like, OMG, yeah, how people think the Constitutions bans religious expression by public institutions when it totally doesn't but is in fact referring to the requirement (at the time) in countries like England for membership in a particular church (C. of E.) to participate in public life, and how they think the Constitution refers to "separation of church and state" when it totally doesn't! I so hate when people cherry-pick and reinterpret to fit their own prejudices!

    (The one reference, in the Bill of Rights, strictly speaking, not the articles of the Constitution, refers to establishing a state religion a la the Church of England and requiring membership in that church for public participation/appointments, which was one of the issues between many colonists and the mother country and why they left Britain. It has nothing to do with public prayer, references to God by serving politicians/on currency/in Founding Documents (otherwise they'd have to ban the Declaration of Independence from public display), putting Christmas trees, creches, menorahs, or entire Buddhist temples on public land, or allowing or not allowing prayers of any kind in public schools, which didn't precisely exist at the time anyway and had they, not permitting prayer would have struck the Founders as odd.)

    And it's a little disingenuous to say that a private company can do what they like, which they can and should (if they have have enough Muslim employees it makes a policy sensible, they should have one, if they don't, they should be able to make individual calls on situations like religious vs. secular holidays) unless you also believe they should have freedom in hiring, firing, and wages, which they generally don't at this point...so I assume everyone who's okay with flexible rules about holidays because they're private company is good with their using their own discretion on hiring/firing, etc.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
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    Default the headline was misleading

    Having said that, I see no problem swapping the holidays one for another, if 80% of employees agree, but I do have a problem with the prayer room. Do any businesses outside of religiously affiliated ones have prayer rooms!?
    Another killer of threads


    4 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    As a teacher, I'm very sensitive to "holidays" since schools are seemingly off more than we are on (and paid only for the number of days we work, prorated over a year). Until parents agree that kids need more than 180 days of education per year, I only get to work that many days. Our union doesn't get to negotiate holidays, those are established by the state. We do negotiate our calendar, which indicates when our breaks for Christmas (or winter) and spring break will begin and end.

    The Tyson case shows how a union and owners can work together for the best labor agreement for the pool of workers and the good of the business. It seems everyone concerned was quite happy. IIRC, I heard an NPR story about how the meat processing industry in the Midwest has adapted to the changing face of their workers: Muslims, Hispanics, etc. Each group has cultural needs and they all seem to get along on the job and off.
    Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!


    10 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
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    How are prayer rooms any different than smoking areas? Both provide an area for employees to engage in an on-the-job personal need. If the employees work their required hours, and their break/prayer doesn't interfere with their job, then who gives a flying fig what they do on their OSHA-mandated breaks??
    Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!


    10 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
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    Dec. 20, 2003
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    N. Augusta, SC (but forever a BUCKEYE!)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitfield Farm Hanoverians View Post
    Oh great! We aren't allowed to have prayer in schools or public meetings anymore but we can have a muslim holiday & prayer rooms at work. What bullshit!!!
    I teach in GA in a public middle school. Every morning during announcements, we have a "moment of silent reflection" and we have a Bible club that meets every Wednesday and Friday. In addition, we have a prayer group that meets monthly for a 'rally around the flag' before school starts. All are strictly voluntary and have a school 'sponsor' (meaning a teacher who allows the club to meet in his or her room).

    So, to think that prayer and religion isn't part of the public school system is incorrect. We simply cannot REQUIRE students (or adults) to participate in things such as prayer or other religious ideals.
    Random horse pics http://www.flickr.com/photos/glfprncs/
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    6 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pal-o-mino View Post
    It is annoying when everybody wants what they want for their own personal gains and forgets about the good of the company or the country. I do get tired of hearing about this group wanting this or that. Nobody wants to assimilate. It's all about me, me, me. And heaven forbid anybody try to say they're offended about whatever me, me, me wants, cause they're going to be labeled a racist, meanie, butthead, you name it. Now the business owners of America have to be aware of the holidays (creeds, habits, etc) of 47 different religions, cultures, languages, persons, and hope he doesn't forget anything or he'll 'offend' someone and be sued for discrimination and out of business. It's ridiculous. Do your religious crap at home! Nobody gives a damn at work.
    So you would be fine with having to work on Christmas, then?

    Last time I checked, the Constitution said that the United States does not have a state religion. That means that people who live here can practice whatever religion they choose. Why should anyone "assimilate" to whatever religion YOU think they should practice? This country was founded and built on the freedom to worship, speak, and assemble as e choose, not on what someone else says we should be.

    A happy workforce that feels as though their needs are being met and their voice is being heard is going to be a productive workplace. Whether that's letting people choose the 8 holidays they'd like to take off, showing understanding when there is illness or a death in the family, providing quality daycare, or any of a number of other things, many businesses (for example, Walmart) have gotten so greedy that they forget that business is built on the backs of the employees. How many complaints have we seen on this board about businesses like Walmart, who treat employees like less than human, because their product/service is lacking? People will be productive and take pride in their work when they know they are appreciated...and if they know that they are not, the rest of us suffer as well because the whole company is less productive.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calvincrowe View Post
    their OSHA-mandated breaks??
    Contrary to what many may believe, there are no federal laws that require employers to grant workers breaks for eating meals or any other purpose during specific intervals



  8. #28
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    I read the article three times and could not see anywhere in it that said Labor Day was no longer a paid holiday. It did state that workers could swap the Muslim holiday for Labor Day and still receive overtime pay. It's an either/or choice. It's a good management decision.

    I did expect the typical knee-jerk howls from the Left, who obviously had not read the article carefully, about Fox news. After all these years, they still can not face the reality that the stranglehold the Liberal Mainstream Media once held on the information flow to the general population has been broken.
    “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
    John Adams


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
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    I don't have a problem with employers extending reasonable flexibility on holidays to their employees. That's just good business.

    But you don't have to be an "anti-Muslim bigot" to worry about inroads of Koranic thinking into our current society. Just watch the events in Egypt.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
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    Koranic thinking like what? Praying? Fasting? Giving to charity? Living inside your means (not taking out or giving interest-bearing loans)? Would you be more specific about your concerns?

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


    10 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31
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    Oct. 28, 2007
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    Is that Tyson plant Halal? If it is not then wouldn't that be a conflict to a religious Muslim?



  12. #32
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    Only if they're eating the meat they're processing I imagine.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  13. #33
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    Apr. 15, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryisBlaisin' View Post
    So you would be fine with having to work on Christmas, then?

    Last time I checked, the Constitution said that the United States does not have a state religion. That means that people who live here can practice whatever religion they choose. Why should anyone "assimilate" to whatever religion YOU think they should practice? This country was founded and built on the freedom to worship, speak, and assemble as e choose, not on what someone else says we should be.

    A happy workforce that feels as though their needs are being met and their voice is being heard is going to be a productive workplace. Whether that's letting people choose the 8 holidays they'd like to take off, showing understanding when there is illness or a death in the family, providing quality daycare, or any of a number of other things, many businesses (for example, Walmart) have gotten so greedy that they forget that business is built on the backs of the employees. How many complaints have we seen on this board about businesses like Walmart, who treat employees like less than human, because their product/service is lacking? People will be productive and take pride in their work when they know they are appreciated...and if they know that they are not, the rest of us suffer as well because the whole company is less productive.
    I've worked in Asian countries that don't celebrate Xmas. Did I whine to my boss and take the day off? Or expect them to cater to me? Or swap holidays around? NOPE. I WORKED. Just like I was expected to and just like everybody else. Very weird to be working on Xmas and very weird to have holidays off that didn't mean anything to me, but I was in THEIR country. You know, when in Rome, etc. Except when you're in the states, hey, anything goes. Just whine and complain loud enough and you can get whatever you want. I'm going to celebrate Festivus this year and see how my boss likes that.

    There's an Iranian company I do business with here. It's a shipping company. They took the new year off and didn't tell anybody. The iranian new year. Well, I had shipments coming in, stuff I needed to do, and they're closed. No warning or anything. A head's up would have been nice at least, can't keep track of everybody's holidays, if I had known i could have scheduled some things differently.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    I don't have a problem with employers extending reasonable flexibility on holidays to their employees. That's just good business.

    But you don't have to be an "anti-Muslim bigot" to worry about inroads of Koranic thinking into our current society. Just watch the events in Egypt.

    G.

    eh, the Koranic thinking is alive and well around here.
    we just don't call it that.
    if you are referring to the treatment of women etc...hatin on people....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #35
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    I'm sure this decision reflects the make up of the work force at that plant. Tyson has never struck me as an employer that is sensitive or caring about its minimum-wage illegal-alien work force. It's sensible for their bottom line.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...196958362.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/07/business/07tyson.html



  16. #36
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    Jul. 31, 2007
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    If it's any consolation to you members of the White and Christian majority, this is about swapping out a holiday commemorating the dirty laboring classes for another religion you don't like.

    So before you get all riled up, are you sure that you give a rat's patoot about Labor? Are you claiming that you had any allegiance with that classe's agenda before now?

    Sorry, I'm just a big ol' Marxist fan of Labor Day.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    9 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    eh, the Koranic thinking is alive and well around here.
    we just don't call it that.
    if you are referring to the treatment of women etc...hatin on people....
    Gosh I hope the poster meant something else otherwise I'd say that we've been Koranic in the USA for a long long time if we're talking about poor treatment of women, hating on people, etc.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


    5 members found this post helpful.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by pal-o-mino View Post
    I've worked in Asian countries that don't celebrate Xmas. Did I whine to my boss and take the day off? Or expect them to cater to me? Or swap holidays around? NOPE. I WORKED. Just like I was expected to and just like everybody else. Very weird to be working on Xmas and very weird to have holidays off that didn't mean anything to me, but I was in THEIR country. You know, when in Rome, etc. Except when you're in the states, hey, anything goes. Just whine and complain loud enough and you can get whatever you want. I'm going to celebrate Festivus this year and see how my boss likes that.

    There's an Iranian company I do business with here. It's a shipping company. They took the new year off and didn't tell anybody. The iranian new year. Well, I had shipments coming in, stuff I needed to do, and they're closed. No warning or anything. A head's up would have been nice at least, can't keep track of everybody's holidays, if I had known i could have scheduled some things differently.
    Heck, I've worked jobs here in the US where I worked each Christmas. Many people do. Having Christmas off is really nice, but not having it off isn't horrendous.
    Re the article...I have no problem with a private company having whatever days off it wants. And 80% of the union voted for it, so apparently the employees wanted it as well.



  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post

    So before you get all riled up, are you sure that you give a rat's patoot about Labor?
    As a rat owner, I find that phrase offensive and insist everyone stop using it now. You can say 'rodently challenged buttock area' instead, that's much better.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #40
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    Pal-o-mino--that is the funniest thing I've read on COTH in a long time! RCBA, my favorite new insult. I guess Twotrudoc will have to change her new thread title to: Rodent Illegitimate Child now...
    Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!


    1 members found this post helpful.

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