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  1. #1
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    Jun. 14, 2006
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    Default At my wit's end w/ doggie diarrhea...I could really use some help here.

    I have posted on the Menagerie group, but I figure since we're still in OT Day, I'll post here.

    Long and short...my 9 1/2 YO Lab started going off food and having diarrhea about 3 mos ago. I thought it was the bag of food so I tossed it and got new. Still didn't improve, though it might be teeth or a parasite. Took him in for a dental, bloodwork, and fecal. Nothing of concern. Put him on ID. No improvement.

    Went to MSU. He ended up having another anastamosis surgery, cut out more bowel (had one last year) and this time they did an end to end instead of a side by side.

    Symptoms persisted.

    Then I moved. Seeing a new veterinarian. Have had him on metronidazole for about 3 weeks now. At first, they thought the persistent loose stools might be due to the soft diet. So started transitioning him back to regular food plus pumpkin plus the hamburger/rice. Actually got worse.

    Back to hamburger rice. A little better.

    Then new vet recommended that I discontinue the SD LB Adult altogether and go with California Natural. But to mix. Worse.

    Other than when he's on ONLY hamburger and rice, it's loose stool. Like....explosive diarrhea. He's on a probiotic, I've got pumpkin in the mix. I am at a loss and I'm tired of seeing him uncomfortable.

    I'm ALSO tired of having to clean diarrhea out of my carpets because he can't hold it when the urge comes.

    I could use ideas. Anything at this point.

    What he's on now:

    1) 3 more days of a 21 day dose of metronidazole.
    2) California Natural dry and some canned of the herring and sweet potato.
    3) Purina probiotic (script)
    4) cup of pumpkin every meal.

    Help please. I just can't keep doing this. It's driving us ALL batty.

    I want my dog to feel better and I want to NOT have to take stock out in Woolite Carpet Cleaner for WHITE FREAKING RENTAL CARPET.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb. 14, 2008
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    925

    Default

    Specialists are your friends. Go see an Internist. You may not have any options since he has had multiple R&As but worth a consult at the very least.

    Having multiple Dobermans with IBD I feel your pain.......



  3. #3
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    VA
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    Default

    I have a call in to the surgeon too. He is a really great guy, did both of the surgeries in the last 12 mos. He is going to call back later. I really think the gal I'm seeing now is out horsed. Dr. D warned me of that and told me to call him--gave me his personal cell and everything--but being the holidays, I've tried not to bother him. It's just that...it's Not. Better. At . All.

    I am trying to be cool. Dog is happy, alert, energetic! Just not wanting to eat so much and then when he does, has horrid stools.

    like the kind I can't even pick up on the trail because it's WATER.

    And of course, that's happening in my home too and it's a rental and the landlady would cow out if she knew. (I'm a very thorough cleaner though.)

    I just want him to feel good and dangit, I want to sleep through a whole night without a dog walk vs having a mess to clean up!!!!

    My husband is not pleased AT. ALL.

    I think that if he had his choice right now, we'd euth the dog. That's not going to happen but I have to get this resolved.

    Tell me that there are other tricks????
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2006
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    Maine
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    Default

    If you haven't done so already, a round of Panacur is worthwhile. Otherwise, I would try a canned food such as Evo 95% beef as one of your best limited ingredient options. Immodium can be used to break the cycle of GI cramps.



  5. #5
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    Mar. 9, 2006
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    Raleigh, NC
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    Any time I can't get a handle on diarrhea in a dog, despite every diagnostic under the sun, I grab the Tylan powder. Only works while they're on it, but it's cheap, and there are no known long term side effects. Ask your vet for some! (It's a poultry coccidiostat). Depending on dog size it's like 1/4 tsp/day.
    From now on, ponyfixer, i'll include foot note references.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul. 22, 2008
    Location
    Rochester, NY
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    Default

    So sorry BR. I own the world's most touchy tummied GD and feel your pain deeply. First three years of his life were much like your last few months. It's awful. :/ Some thoughts:

    -Even if his fecal(s) show nothing, it isn't going to hurt a thing at this point to hit him with a round of panacur. It's cheap, safe, and an easy option that may well show some results. Easiest thing first, right?

    - I have no love lost for SD foods and while I know he's not on it now, I wouldn't go back no matter what anyone suggests. Are you feeding one of the grain free CN foods? If not, maybe give one of them a go, or look for one of the natural balance limited ingredient GF foods. I would avoid lamb at all costs; I know many, many dogs who are extremely sensitive to it, and many seem to develop sensitivities later in life even if they've been eating it for years. Grain free makes a big difference in our house, and we also have to be careful with protein content; anything very rich in protein sends my dog right back to projectile hershey squirt land. I also feed home made yogurt for probiotics; it's a hell of a lot cheaper than any script stuff and the dog just loves it. I might also tone down the pumpkin a bit to maybe 1/2 a cup a meal; it's good stuff but can have the oposite of the intended effect in great volume. When we need it around here, about a half cup a meal serves fine, and my dog is 140 lbs.

    - Look into slippery elm bark. I still don't understand the voodoo behind it and it can be pricey, but you need very little and it really DOES work. May not address the underlying problem but it could help you get a handle on things & make him feel better in the meantime.
    I wish I had more advice to offer. Good luck!
    bar.ka think u al.l. susp.ect
    free bar.ka and tidy rabbit



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshfield View Post
    If you haven't done so already, a round of Panacur is worthwhile. Otherwise, I would try a canned food such as Evo 95% beef as one of your best limited ingredient options. Immodium can be used to break the cycle of GI cramps.
    Did that too, I'm sorry...we did do a power pak.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
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    Jun. 14, 2006
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    VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pony Fixer View Post
    Any time I can't get a handle on diarrhea in a dog, despite every diagnostic under the sun, I grab the Tylan powder. Only works while they're on it, but it's cheap, and there are no known long term side effects. Ask your vet for some! (It's a poultry coccidiostat). Depending on dog size it's like 1/4 tsp/day.
    I have no bloody clue what that is. I will have to research. My dogs are about 80-90 lbs normally.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
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    Oct. 14, 2012
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    Why did they resect the bowel? Did they send out pieces for pathology? I am surprised he isn't on a rx GI diet. If they suspect a food sensitivity an otc novel ingredient diet won't necessarfly work.

    Call the surgeon for a consult , then to internist.



  10. #10
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    Apr. 14, 2001
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    Minnesota
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    Have you tried Imodium? You can use it on dogs. Your problem might be bigger and too complex, but it's worth a shot.

    My go-to plan of action for diarrhea is:

    Withhold food for 12-24 hours
    One Imodium at onset of symptoms
    Half rations after initial fast
    Another Imodium 24 hours after first if still liquid stool
    GOOD probiotics throughout (multiple strains of bacteria, not just one, and stored and purchased out of the fridge.)

    (For a 70 lb dog. I imagine you would break up the pill for something smaller.)

    I have not faced the history that you've got with your dog, but this works to resolve nearly all diarrhea cases I have had over the last 15 years or so.

    Something else to consider: have they cultured the stool? I wonder if your guy has something like C. difficile from his hospital stay. No clue what you would need to do if that's the case, although I have read of success with fecal transplant in people with persistent C. dif infections--essentially taking stool from a healthy animal, making a slurry and tubing the ill animal with the product, to reset the bacteria in the gut.



  11. #11
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    Jul. 30, 2005
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    Have you tried starving him for 24 hours and then starting a dry food? (I'd try rice and a novel protein source, just in case.)

    No idea if starving is a good idea for your dog, but its something else to ask the vet about.

    A bone maybe? (I know my dog's poop is always firm when they've had a bone to chew on.)

    Would he tolerate wearing a nappy? At least then the mess would be more contained.
    Horse Show Names Free name website with over 6200 names. Want to add? PM me!



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by volvo_240 View Post
    Why did they resect the bowel? Did they send out pieces for pathology? I am surprised he isn't on a rx GI diet. If they suspect a food sensitivity an otc novel ingredient diet won't necessarfly work.

    Call the surgeon for a consult , then to internist.
    He'd had a bowel resection last year due to a perforation of the bowel. They saw some distention in front of the surgical site this time so they redid it.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
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    Mar. 9, 2006
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    Default

    Imodium is not safe long term, only occasional use. Not for small dogs (not a prob with this one obviously).

    Tylosin (Tylan generic) is a macrolide antibiotic used primarily in cattle, swine, poultry. Sometimes used in dogs/cats for chronic colitis. Not for ruminants orally or horses ever. Dose is (just looked it up) 1/4 tsp 2-3 times day (basically on each meal). Those with chronic clostridial colitis can be controlled with one dose every 2-3 days.

    *Sorry about the earlier coccidiostat thing--I had the "c" rolling around in my head and hadn't grabbed my drug formulary. The "c" was clostridium, which is difficult to definitively diagnose often.
    From now on, ponyfixer, i'll include foot note references.



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kookicat View Post
    Have you tried starving him for 24 hours and then starting a dry food? (I'd try rice and a novel protein source, just in case.)

    No idea if starving is a good idea for your dog, but its something else to ask the vet about.

    A bone maybe? (I know my dog's poop is always firm when they've had a bone to chew on.)

    Would he tolerate wearing a nappy? At least then the mess would be more contained.
    Yes, I've fasted him. No bones. I've been very diligent about what he is getting.

    As far as a nappy...I don't think he'd leave it on. He'd flip. I could try but I think it would just result in a worse mess of me cleaning up shredded diaper AND poop.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
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    Apr. 14, 2001
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    When is he having accidents? When you're not home? When you are home?

    I'd keep him in an x-pen on linoleum during the night or when you're not home, if that's when he's having accidents.



  16. #16
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    Feb. 24, 2011
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    Idaho
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    If the vet hasn't done it already, ask him to test for pancreatic exocrine deficiency. It's basically that part of the pancreas is either not working or has atrophied for some reason, and the enzymes required to do the first, biggest breakdown of food in the gut aren't there. So the dog will eat, but not much, and have horrible yellow diarrhea, and lose weight -- because there's just no digestion going on. The fix is a prescription powder (powdered pig pancreas, ick, but it works) and it's like a miracle drug.

    I went through some horrible diarrhea, weight loss, unexplained liver enzyme results, etc with my girl corgi -- after we actually went in and were going to do liver shunt surgery, they discovered the pancreas problem.

    Your vet might have already checked the pancreas when he was in to do the bowel resection, but if not, it's worth asking.

    Good luck!
    Nanakorobi yaoki: Seven times fall, eight times rise.
    http://reveilleandrinsie.blogspot.com



  17. #17
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    He has been doing really well the last week til last night. We had been keeping the dogs in our bedroom at night and I "hear" him sit by the door, get up and let him out. Well, last night, he left our door open when he came to bed. So I ddin't hear. It's pretty obvious that he totally had an emergency poop. Just like what I was dealing with before. He is used to having a dog door but doesn't now. So his "signal" is basically one whine and some nail clicking if on a hard surface. I just missed it after several days of little sleep. MY FAULT. Not his. Totally my fault.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
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    Were the enzymes off? His aren't So just wondering.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReveilleandRinsie View Post
    If the vet hasn't done it already, ask him to test for pancreatic exocrine deficiency. It's basically that part of the pancreas is either not working or has atrophied for some reason, and the enzymes required to do the first, biggest breakdown of food in the gut aren't there. So the dog will eat, but not much, and have horrible yellow diarrhea, and lose weight -- because there's just no digestion going on. The fix is a prescription powder (powdered pig pancreas, ick, but it works) and it's like a miracle drug.

    I went through some horrible diarrhea, weight loss, unexplained liver enzyme results, etc with my girl corgi -- after we actually went in and were going to do liver shunt surgery, they discovered the pancreas problem.

    Your vet might have already checked the pancreas when he was in to do the bowel resection, but if not, it's worth asking.

    Good luck!
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
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    Oct. 12, 2001
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    you need a diagnosis as to why this is happening before proceeding- this really isn't normal "oops ate something yucky" diarrhea, nor does it sound like an undiagnosed giardia infection. He's had several bowel resections? perhaps that has damaged the bowel to the point it's not functioning properly.



  20. #20
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    I asked about short bowel syndrome before the last surgery and after. They assure me that he has not lost enough to be a problem. But....I wonder.

    Given his age plus the amount of small intestine that he's lost....

    New vet says we need to "reset" his bowel to a different source. I'm fine with trying new food but Good God in Heaven...it was 89 bucks for this 2 weeks of food. And I can't get that when we move to Africa. What am I going to do THEN?

    I just need to find something he can handle NOW. I'm not giving the SD anymore, but you guys...I'm tired of this. My husband is REALLY tired of my zoo-like feeding practices at this point. I cook for the dog, I mix for the dog. I get the stink eye every night from hubby. ANd then today, more poo in the house. It's no good. I have to figure it out.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



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