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  1. #1
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    May. 6, 2007
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  2. #2
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    Apr. 24, 2012
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    Default

    Well, shit.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
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    Feb. 8, 2010
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    Flyover State #1
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wildfox View Post
    Well, shit.
    Well put.
    Team Ginger



  4. #4
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  5. #5
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    Oct. 18, 2011
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    "He is confident of providing the FEI with a comprehensive explanation which will be considered at a hearing of the FEI Tribunal."


    this makes it kinda sound like they have figured out what happened, or at least some sort of explanation.

    wow - what a tough situation.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2001
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    "He is confident of providing the FEI with a comprehensive explanation which will be considered at a hearing of the FEI Tribunal."
    I am sorry, but statements like this are the legal equivalent of, "Uh, just a minute. Me and my legal team need work out how to obfuscate and nitpick the details into BS so I don't have to be punished." How many times do we hear this in baseball, cycling, and horse racing? I honestly have no sympathy in this case.

    The test is done and done. Buck up, take the punishment and move along. Stop trying to game the system and be a man. Lance Armstrong and others were good "riders." Bonds, A-rod, Sosa, McQuire were "good players."

    Put it this way, a person gets hurt in an experiment in my lab. I didn't pack the reactants. I didn't light the fuses. I am still the person who is responsible and the person who faces the inquiry and suffers the punishments. I see no difference between me and these riders who have been caught.


    27 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr. 13, 2008
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAyers View Post
    I am sorry, but statements like this are the legal equivalent of, "Uh, just a minute. Me and my legal team need work out how to obfuscate and nitpick the details into BS so I don't have to be punished." How many times do we hear this in baseball, cycling, and horse racing? I honestly have no sympathy in this case.

    The test is done and done. Buck up, take the punishment and move along. Stop trying to game the system and be a man. Lance Armstrong and others were good "riders." Bonds, A-rod, Sosa, McQuire were "good players."

    Put it this way, a person gets hurt in an experiment in my lab. I didn't pack the reactants. I didn't light the fuses. I am still the person who is responsible and the person who faces the inquiry and suffers the punishments. I see no difference between me and these riders who have been caught.
    Well said.

    I was just thinking about this last night. I wonder what his excuse will be?
    AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012


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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2000
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    Clarksdale, MS--the golden buckle on the cotton belt
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    Probably they know that the Burghley win is gone. But the penalty for doping intentionally is so huge that they are undoubtedly looking for ways to reduce the penalty by proving inadvertence.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  9. #9
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    Jul. 20, 2003
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    San Antonio, TX
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    He's scheduled to give a clinic out here in Area V in January. Wonder how this will affect clinic participation/interest, or if the clinic will still be held.
    Jonah 4:4: And the Lord said, "Do you do well to be angry?"

    With every day that passes, college football season gets that much closer!



  10. #10
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    Dec. 21, 2008
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    I honestly can't believe for a moment that the doping was deliberate on Jocks part. Who on earth dopes their horse when they know they are pretty much a dead cert to win?! The kiwis have too much at stake


    6 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
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    Jul. 10, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by cllane1 View Post
    He's scheduled to give a clinic out here in Area V in January. Wonder how this will affect clinic participation/interest, or if the clinic will still be held.
    I seriously hope participation is good. Just because he cheated does not mean he is not a good instructor (note, I did not say teacher).

    RoundTheBend,

    Then Jock was an idiot to trust others with his success.

    At some point we have to look at all of these positive results and realize that there is just NO way EVERYONE is in trouble because of mixed feed buckets, the wind blew from a drug factory, my new help was learning what horses are, etc. If that is true, then this industry is populated by some of the MOST INCOMPETENT PEOPLE calling themselves top riders and horsemen. And then why the hell should ANY of us attend their clinics.


    15 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    Jan. 6, 2008
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    Area II, the Blue Ridge Mountains
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    It's not a drug that would typically be used. I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt.

    So put that in your bong and smoke it.



    20 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
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    Apr. 10, 2006
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    I'm just confused as to why you'd want to give an UL eventer Reserpine.... or anything that might impair the horse's agility/ability to perform, when you are jumping large, immovable things at speed.
    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashGordon View Post
    I'm just confused as to why you'd want to give an UL eventer Reserpine.... or anything that might impair the horse's agility/ability to perform, when you are jumping large, immovable things at speed.
    No way. No how. That's why I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
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    May. 24, 2009
    Location
    Madisonville, la
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    I really don't want to believe that this drug was used for these horses. I find something isn't adding up for me about this whole situation. As for the clinic, that is a tough call. If the drug was used that goes against credibility and yes teaching he might be fine, but it is hard to take instruction from someone that might have used this drug.
    I thought this drug was a long lasting traq? Why would you want to have that in an upper level horse jumping jumps like that. Riding my pokey boy around novice is tough enough
    No Worries!



  16. #16
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    Feb. 22, 2000
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    There has been one rider/Person Responsible who successfully fought a doping positive. One.

    'Guilt' per the FEI is about the presence of the substance in the horse. The PR is responsible for seeing that no banned substances find their way into the horse. If a banned substance is found in the horse, the PR must explain to the FEI tribunal how that substance came to be found in the horse. That explanation might mitigate the resulting suspension period but even so, the PR will still beheld responsible.

    In 2010, Christine Yeoman, a British endurance rider, successfully argued her case, presenting evidence that her horse's positive test was due to a contaminated supplement, and that it would not have been possible for her to have that supplement tested before giving it to her horse. This defense did not come cheap -- Horse & Hound reported that she racked up £200,000 in legal fees. But she did what she set out to do, which was to clear her name.

    The FEI hearing documents on that case can be found here -- click on the horse's name. The legal firm discusses the case here and here.

    As of yet, no word on Kevin McNab's B sample for his reserpine positive. McNab has been an invisible man through this process and it will be very interesting indeed to see what approach he takes at his hearing.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
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    May. 26, 2011
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    As I posted when this story first broke, I don't think they gave the reserpine as a lead up to Burghley. I think they gave the drug just after Badminton and figured it would be well clear of the horses system by Burghley.

    There will be all kinds of BS "reasons" offered but I believe they gave the drug as part of a recovery/rehab for the horse to keep him quiet.
    "I couldn't find my keys, so I put her in the trunk"


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  18. #18
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    Apr. 30, 2002
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    Looking up
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    In the racing world, a positive test is prima facie evidence of administration. You can't defend against the positive by saying you didn't give it or didn't know who gave it -- trainers are responsible, period, even if they aren't even in the same hemisphere when the horse raced. There's no defense on that.

    Positive in both samples means he was given the drug and why, and for what reason, they can blabber about til the cows come home but doesn't change the finding. I am just wondering why. It's a tranquilizer. Is the horse too hot to control in dressage or something? did they think they could get away with it so many days out and still have the effect? This is a long acting TQ. it's reasonable to expect that it was used to make the horse calmer for some reason. I don't think a rider at that level worries about the horse not being too stoned to ride over fixed timber. I think it was a trace that was found, so I am sure they knew the dosage they wanted to use, just got caught when it didn't clear the horse in the expected time frame. Shit happens. You think you know what you are doing and then bam the horse screws it all up. Funny how that happens. If anyone thinks reserpine is the only thing in the whole wide world that is was ever given to a top event horse, well, I gots news for ya. It ain't.
    "Passion, though a bad regulator, is a powerful spring." -- Emerson
    www.eventhorse.wordpress.com


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  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2005
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    Northeast
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    Quote Originally Posted by FitToBeTied View Post
    As I posted when this story first broke, I don't think they gave the reserpine as a lead up to Burghley. I think they gave the drug just after Badminton and figured it would be well clear of the horses system by Burghley.

    There will be all kinds of BS "reasons" offered but I believe they gave the drug as part of a recovery/rehab for the horse to keep him quiet.
    Reserpine has a nasty habit of not following the rules.

    It is a drug that in one horse makes everything peaceable, turns others into monsters, and still other makes you wonder why you gave it, as it seems to have no effect.

    It can also be slow to clear. And drug tests have zero tolerance.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
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    Mar. 1, 2003
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    Happily in Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by JER View Post
    There has been one rider/Person Responsible who successfully fought a doping positive. One.

    'Guilt' per the FEI is about the presence of the substance in the horse. The PR is responsible for seeing that no banned substances find their way into the horse. If a banned substance is found in the horse, the PR must explain to the FEI tribunal how that substance came to be found in the horse. That explanation might mitigate the resulting suspension period but even so, the PR will still beheld responsible.
    I have come to understand in the past year or two (reading all these cases) that if I want to participate in this sport at this level - I take a risk. The risk that somehow, my horse will test positive no matter how clean I am. And if that were to happen, the risk I took is that the FEI will find me responsible and I will have to take a 2-year ban on the chin.

    I don't have the money or the time to have a 24-hour body guard on my horse 365 days per year, to grow my own hay and grain etc. etc. I also don't have 200,000 GBP to fight this sort of thing. Better to spend that money and those 2 years training, going to schooling shows, maybe going hunting or trying polo or...
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng


    5 members found this post helpful.

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