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  1. #1
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    Default How much would you pay for...

    17.1hh 13yo mare. Has successfully competed and won in 4ft jumpers, 4th level dressage and prelim level eventing. Her jumper/eventing career has only just begun yet it's very rare that she's out of the placings. She is a definite GP jumper prospect (she may be 13 but has the legs and body of a 6yo!) according to all top trainers who have ridden and worked with her, as well as multiple vets. Trainer expects her to be ready for Grand Prix in no time with a capable rider, as she's schooling comfortably 4'6+ courses at home with a greener rider and has plenty of scope to spare. I quote their trainer - "she'd laugh at 1M45!". The owner said that if she sold to an eventer, she'd definitely go Advanced. She is quite a packer - fast, gorgeous, neat and incredibly, ridiculously scopey. Her paces are to die for, as is her jump. Her bloodlines are also impeccable (who knows of Sandro Hit and his sire?). She is incredibly ridable and sweet.

    She is not mine, but her owner (who is a friend of mine) has asked me if I would be interested in purchasing her and to make an offer if I am. So my question is, what would you pay for a mare like this?



  2. #2
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    If she's as good as she's made out to be anywhere between 55-350k. Depends on the seller, buyer, what trainer it's with, the level of competition (Rated? junior jumpers? A/O jumpers? What?), difficulty, etc. If this were Reed Kessler and she was offered a new jumper that had potential, she'd pay a lot different then Mary Sue would pay for the same jumper she was offered. My advice to you is if you really like her, offer less than what you can afford to pay for her; and if you really really like her and the owner won't take the first offer, come up to what you can afford to pay for her.



  3. #3
    sonadorah is offline Training Level
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunterrider23 View Post
    If she's as good as she's made out to be anywhere between 55-350k. Depends on the seller, buyer, what trainer it's with, the level of competition (Rated? junior jumpers? A/O jumpers? What?), difficulty, etc. If this were Reed Kessler and she was offered a new jumper that had potential, she'd pay a lot different then Mary Sue would pay for the same jumper she was offered. My advice to you is if you really like her, offer less than what you can afford to pay for her; and if you really really like her and the owner won't take the first offer, come up to what you can afford to pay for her.
    Okay, thank you! Money is not a huge issue - I just didn't want to offer a too small amount and insult her, but I obviously also don't want to end up paying more than she's worth. It's funny you should mention Reed because of my friends connections..
    If she was your horse, how much would you ask for her? Does age play any effect on her price at all? I don't have much experience in buying and selling.



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonadorah View Post
    Okay, thank you! Money is not a huge issue - I just didn't want to offer a too small amount and insult her, but I obviously also don't want to end up paying more than she's worth. It's funny you should mention Reed because of my friends connections..
    If she was your horse, how much would you ask for her? Does age play any effect on her price at all? I don't have much experience in buying and selling.
    PM'd you!



  5. #5
    sonadorah is offline Training Level
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunterrider23 View Post
    PM'd you!
    Thank you



  6. #6
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    Do you have a coach? Perhaps you could get a lesson with them on the mare and they could help you evaluate the worth of the horse? Not exactly orthodox, but it might be a possibility if the owner is your friends.



  7. #7
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    Value as in, they actually put her on the market and try to sell her???

    I'd need to know a little more about that "win in the 4' jumpers". One win or more? How many in the class? How long at that level? Any record to suggest she will hold up to a GP career? Winning a 4' jumper class just isn't all that impressive in HJ land.

    She is a 13 year old mare, and everyone thinks their horse is a GP jumper prospect.

    In the real world I would be impressed if they got $55K for her.



  8. #8
    sonadorah is offline Training Level
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    Quote Originally Posted by over the moon View Post
    Do you have a coach? Perhaps you could get a lesson with them on the mare and they could help you evaluate the worth of the horse? Not exactly orthodox, but it might be a possibility if the owner is your friends.
    I do, yes. It is definitely a possibility, although I may try and book a lesson on her with her current trainer if I haven't already made an offer by the time I can get it organized, and just pop in a 'so how much are horses like this worth?'. She has not yet told her trainer that she's seriously considering selling her - and won't mention it until after I have made a definite decision and offer.



  9. #9
    sonadorah is offline Training Level
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    Quote Originally Posted by dags View Post
    Value as in, they actually put her on the market and try to sell her???

    I'd need to know a little more about that "win in the 4' jumpers". One win or more? How many in the class? How long at that level? Any record to suggest she will hold up to a GP career? Winning a 4' jumper class just isn't all that impressive in HJ land.

    She is a 13 year old mare, and everyone thinks their horse is a GP jumper prospect.

    In the real world I would be impressed if they got $55K for her.
    If I do not end up taking her, they will not advertise her nor will they put a price on her. If her owner still decides to sell, she will find another buyer through word of mouth and sell her to best home and best offer. Once word is out, there will be offers coming from all directions - I assure you! I feel very privileged to be given first choice on this mare, which is why I don't want to make a wrong offer. I don't know details on what she has won and done - only what I've been told which is what I posted. She's not just a backyard mare, and this is not just a backyard rider and trainer we're talking about either - they are all very competitive and as far as I know, they get her out a lot.

    According to the trainers and vets, she will very easily go Grand Prix. She is schooling courses of 4'6 like they are 2ft and she jumps much higher grids and single fences (although, I don't know the height). The rider is not ready to school courses above that height (and I do not believe she ever wants to!) but I assume she has gone higher when ridden by her trainer. These are opinions of top trainers and riders, and she is 100% sound so there is no reason why she wouldn't. Although quite honestly, if I did buy her and didn't end up taking her Grand Prix because of her age - I would not be disappointed. Simply owning a mare like this would be a blessing, and I bet she would through some lovely, talented foals.



  10. #10
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    I wouldn't know how to price her as a jumper.

    As an event horse: I've known a successful (winning CCI*) prelim gelding, age 13, safe enough for any young rider or amateur, easy ride, sound. Had potential to go intermediate, possibly advanced. For sale with a BNT, a fair price at $35K and had very few looks. This was about ten years ago. A mare decreases the price somewhat; fancy/spectacular dressage will increase the price.

    As an event horse, the biggest knock is the age: by 13, if the horse was truly Advanced material, it probably should have an Intermediate record by now. Not saying that the horse can't/won't go advanced-- but it shouldn't command an "Advanced" price tag. Successful prelim horses are available for around $40k or less (depending on location), often younger with more "potential" years left.


    Obviously, take the same horse and if it has the talent for equivalent (or better) dressage or show jumping, the price definitely increases. I'll leave that up to the dressage riders and show jumpers.
    “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
    ? Albert Einstein

    ~AJ~



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonadorah View Post
    Hi all!

    I'm just curious as to where a young (18+) but experienced and talented rider would look for owners? I know of someone (through mutual friends) who is 18 and found an owner who paid for a new horse, actually pays for her to ride/compete it, pays for it's upkeep, etc. She is not the most experienced/polished rider in the world, but she definitely has potential that clearly he can see. Do you have to have connections to find these sorts of owners, or owners looking to half own your own competition horse? Or is there some other way that you can advertise yourself and find them? Speaking mainly jumpers. I am very dedicated, experienced and looking to make it to the top but don't have the finances to own more than one horse.

    Any information would be fantastic, thank you.
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=370784



    Quote Originally Posted by sonadorah View Post
    Okay, thank you! Money is not a huge issue - I just didn't want to offer a too small amount and insult her, but I obviously also don't want to end up paying more than she's worth. It's funny you should mention Reed because of my friends connections..
    If she was your horse, how much would you ask for her? Does age play any effect on her price at all? I don't have much experience in buying and selling.

    I'm confused... Did you finder a buyer to buy the new horse for you? Are you selling your other horse to get this one? Or in your first post, or are you saying you can only afford one horse and that would be this mare (you don't currently have a horse)?

    In one thread, you ask about owners financing saying that you don't have the finances, then in this topic money is no issue?

    I agree that more info is needed - showing at AA shows? Winning consistently? Were the events recognized? Is she currently with a professional trainer? In what discipline?

    What would you be looking to do with her? What level are you currently competing at?

    Just saw your latest post - " I don't know details on what she has won and done" - would concern me. 4th level dressage, prelim eventing and 4'+ jumpers at a "packer" level for a 13 year old with little wear and tear on her body? I'd be looking for verifiable show records in all of the stated disciplines, as that would affect her value significantly. From the information provided, I'd say $25-35K.



  12. #12
    sonadorah is offline Training Level
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    Quote Originally Posted by hAlterHorse View Post
    [url]

    I'm confused... Did you finder a buyer to buy the new horse for you? Are you selling your other horse to get this one? Or in your first post, or are you saying you can only afford one horse and that would be this mare (you don't currently have a horse)?

    In one thread, you ask about owners financing saying that you don't have the finances, then in this topic money is no issue?

    I agree that more info is needed - showing at AA shows? Winning consistently? Were the events recognized? Is she currently with a professional trainer? In what discipline?

    What would you be looking to do with her? What level are you currently competing at?

    Just saw your latest post - " I don't know details on what she has won and done" - would concern me. 4th level dressage, prelim eventing and 4'+ jumpers at a "packer" level for a 13 year old with little wear and tear on her body? I'd be looking for verifiable show records in all of the stated disciplines, as that would affect her value significantly. From the information provided, I'd say $25-35K.
    Yes, I will be selling my current horse if I buy her. My parents have agreed to give me the money I need to pay for this horse if I do decide to get her, as this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Obviously - those details will be discussed but at present this is all her owner has told me.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonadorah View Post
    If I do not end up taking her, they will not advertise her nor will they put a price on her. If her owner still decides to sell, she will find another buyer through word of mouth and sell her to best home and best offer. Once word is out, there will be offers coming from all directions - I assure you! I feel very privileged to be given first choice on this mare, which is why I don't want to make a wrong offer. I don't know details on what she has won and done - only what I've been told which is what I posted. She's not just a backyard mare, and this is not just a backyard rider and trainer we're talking about either - they are all very competitive and as far as I know, they get her out a lot.
    I hope they do, seriously, but the horse market is not seeing offers coming in from all directions right now, even on younger horses with more experience, a well thought out path to the GP ring, and Big Name trainers attached.

    You seem to be very attached, and it may well be an exceptional horse, but I'm not sure I'd base my offer on a perceived line of buyers waiting at the door. $0.02, perhaps worth a touch more, but just my thoughts.



  14. #14
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    Thumbs up God idea!

    Great idea here!



    Quote Originally Posted by over the moon View Post
    Do you have a coach? Perhaps you could get a lesson with them on the mare and they could help you evaluate the worth of the horse? Not exactly orthodox, but it might be a possibility if the owner is your friends.
    breeder of Mercury!

    remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans



  15. #15
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    It is very easy to find out what the horse has done in the jumpers, if indeed it has been connected to "top trainers" and thus has shown in rated shows. All you need is the horse's show name and the owner's name, which presumably you know, to look up everything on the USEF site.

    If the horse has been successful at 4th level dressage, and has been competitive in good company in the 4' jumpers with an amateur, I'd be inclined to think it was a nicely educated amateur horse. GP is another matter entirely and requires a lot more than the ability to jump a big jump at home. My adult amateur horse can quite easily jump around a course at 4' without particularly exerting himself, but he is nowhere near being a GP horse, prospect or otherwise, and he's easily trotted 5' with a professional in the tack.

    I agree with Dags on the pricing, and think you should seriously involve your trainer before proceeding any further.
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonadorah View Post
    If I do not end up taking her, they will not advertise her nor will they put a price on her. If her owner still decides to sell, she will find another buyer through word of mouth and sell her to best home and best offer. Once word is out, there will be offers coming from all directions - I assure you! I feel very privileged to be given first choice on this mare, which is why I don't want to make a wrong offer. I don't know details on what she has won and done - only what I've been told which is what I posted. She's not just a backyard mare, and this is not just a backyard rider and trainer we're talking about either - they are all very competitive and as far as I know, they get her out a lot.

    According to the trainers and vets, she will very easily go Grand Prix. She is schooling courses of 4'6 like they are 2ft and she jumps much higher grids and single fences (although, I don't know the height). The rider is not ready to school courses above that height (and I do not believe she ever wants to!) but I assume she has gone higher when ridden by her trainer. These are opinions of top trainers and riders, and she is 100% sound so there is no reason why she wouldn't. Although quite honestly, if I did buy her and didn't end up taking her Grand Prix because of her age - I would not be disappointed. Simply owning a mare like this would be a blessing, and I bet she would through some lovely, talented foals.
    I've never felt "privileged" that someone has offered me a horse for sale. Typically people offer a horse for sale because they want to sell it and make some money on the deal. So trust me, the seller isn't honoring you by offering you the mare first. More likely they are hoping that you are so enamored of the horse that you might make an above-market offer. The fact that they have not put a price on the mare confirms this. If they put the horse on the market and subjected her to the scrutiny of knowledgeable buyers more than likely the price is going to be lower than what you are thinking (whatever that is).

    Now, I'm sure you know this, but it is REALLY, REALLY easy to call a horse a "grand prix prospect." It's also easy to say, "schooling x height." And "winning at 4 ft" can mean something really different depending on the show. A lot of owners and trainers who are marketing horses say stuff like that. When I'm looking at a horse, I pay no attention to "puffery." Instead of being impressed by what everyone is saying about the horse, I would recommend looking closely at the details of the horse's actual show record. Because you are looking for a jumper, the eventing and dressage records don't really add much value (other than it's nice if the horse is very broke on the flat) but I would definitely fact check those results as well.

    There's a lot more to evaluating a horse and deciding how much to pay, but I just want to warn you that you sound a little starry-eyed over this horse and to make a good decision about buying an expensive horse you need to set that aside and coldly evaluate everything about the horse.



  17. #17
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    Be careful. Nobody here has seen the horse and you haven't verified the show record. Likewise you haven't had YOUR trainer evaluate the horse. You seem very keen to pay whatever it takes based on a seller's comments about what the horse has done. That is exactly how folks overpay dearly for horseflesh.

    Do your homework. Talk to your trainer, someone you trust to evaluate the mare and to determine a fair price. This must not be somebody beholden to the seller in any way.

    They are likely selling the mare now because of her age. The price goes down after 10, and starts to go significantly down at about 13.

    A 13 year old prospect really means she didn't make it to GP for whatever reason. She sounds like a great ammy horse.

    And if she hasn't had any foals, you're likely not going to breed her at this age unless you move fast or use embryo transfer. So breeding value is potentially not meaningful.

    Along with show records, ask for a copy of the papers to prove age. If you don't want to do that yet, make any offer contingent on a clean vet check and papers backing up identity and age (and identity on papers should match show records).

    She sounds great. Just not crazy money great unless everything is confirmed, amazing, and your trainer agrees. And think about your relationship with your trainer. You need to trust that they are not taking any money other than a commission from you (usually 10 - 15%). Some trainers will jack up the price and get a cut from both sides.

    Good luck!
    Born under a rock and owned by beasts!



  18. #18
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    I would tell the sellers they can come back to you once they have put a price on the horse. Then, you will evaluate the horse based on your trainer's evaluation, your riding evaluation, the actual show record of the horse, and the horse's papers. After that, a vet check, and then and ONLY then will YOU be able to come back with an offer. If you make any kind of a murmer about a price or offer before any of the above, then you are being taken for a sucker.

    Don't talk to them about it any further until they have given you their price. After that, begin to think yes or no.
    My warmbloods have actually drunk mulled wine in the past. Not today though. A drunk warmblood is a surly warmblood. - WildandWickedWarmbloods



  19. #19
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    Can't put a value on her without more specific information. You could PM folks with her show name and they could look for you to see if she really has the results claimed.

    One big question I see is will she jump the water? That is the single thing that keeps the most horses out of the top levels.

    Combine that with the fact she, according to seller, has Evented where they are trained to jump INTO the water, not over it? Could be a problem.

    Far as her age? Not that limiting overall at <4'. Maybe a real nice Ch/AD Jumper. BUT as a GP prospect? 16 is where most of them start to show their age, few are competing successfully past 17. Unless she is ready to go GP early next year-like in 3 months as she turns 14? She will physically run out of time before she gets enough exposure to be a good GP horse (if she can jump over the water). And you'd need a rider for her pronto with alot of GP mileage to get her there quickly.

    Just don't see alot of value here without specific, recent results...and a GOOD PPE. If she was all that they say and sound, she should have been easy to sell already assuming they priced right.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  20. #20
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    I agree with the others who say you sound very starstruck - easy to do when you really like a horse for whatever reason, but you need to detach a little bit. Have you ever ridden the mare to even see if you are a good fit? And if you are planning on showing with a trainer, you really should seek their professional advice. Another quick note... No matter what the horse's capabilities are, it is also true that there aren't that many *riders* that make it to the GP level. It would be tough given her age for you both to get enough show experience to make it happen. It sounds like you love her, so go ahead and do your due diligence - research her record, ride her, have your trainer evaluate, do a PPE (I always pull blood) - and make your offer based on the cold hard facts. Also... Doesn't hurt to offer a low number and if they say that is not at all what they had in mind, ask what they dud havein mind - one way to get a number out of them. I don't think I would make an offer without a price, since you know they must have one and are hoping you overshoot it.



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