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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 2008
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    Sunshine State
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    Default Am I misunderstanding the intent of the rule?

    On Saturday I rode in my first recognized Novice horse trial in over a decade. The competition was a single day affair, but the morning started out quite cool so I wore my show jacket as I would for any other show.

    By show jumping time (after lunch) it was considerably warmer, so I decided to take advantage of this rule:
    8. At Eventing Tests or when all three phases of a Horse Trials are contested over one day
    - Protective headgear and protective vests as above. Clothing as appropriate for the test in
    progress (see below), or at the competitor’s option - boots, britches, spurs and gloves - as
    applicable for the test being performed. Long or short sleeved shirt with collar and without
    neckwear, of a conservative color, neatly tucked into riding breeches.

    I removed the show shirt, stock tie, and jacket and rode in a plain gray Kerrits riding shirt, tucked in, collar open. Yes, I was the only one not in a jacket, but I was comfortable, and not particularly bothered by it.

    As I left the ring, one of the event organizers (an ULR who I have a lot of respect for by the way) stopped me and asked me, "are you planning on supporting our event in January?" I said I hoped to, and he said he hoped that if I returned, I would follow the proper dress code for a recognized horse trial and wear my jacket for show jumping.

    I asked him about this rule and he said he'd never heard of it, and when I pulled up the rules a bit later (as respectfully as possible - I was freaking out) he said that the rule assumes a show coat is worn over that shirt.

    Am I confused about the rule? The other riders from my barn who were planning on jumping sans jacket put them back on pronto.... I felt properly dressed down for dressing down.
    The rebel in the grey shirt



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    176

    Default

    I'm sure a more informed rule guru will chime in, but I thought that you could go without a jacket when the heat index was 85 or if all three phases were on one day. So I don't think you're in the wrong. Jackets do look better in the pictures though



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 9, 2005
    Location
    Unionville, PA
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    Default

    I think the "without neckwear" indicates no jacket. But I too am hardly a rules guru.
    Delaware Park Canter Volunteer
    http://www.canterusa.org/



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2012
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    128

    Default

    It was my understanding that at recognized events jackets were required; unless it is VERY hot and an announcement is made by officials at the show.

    Generally, if I'm confused I will sometimes ask the person at the in-gate or TD.

    Did you take your new mare to novice event already?? Or was this a different horse?



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 3, 2003
    Location
    Michigan
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    Default

    My understanding was that at one-day horse trials, the rule you posted applies. As I read it, no jacket is required, and if you don't wear a jacket, you can't wear a collar or neckwear. I think this is more common at events on the East coast where they sometimes go straight from stadium to x-c (or just have really tight schedules). Hopefully Janet will chime in here--she will know.

    Now, at a 2 or 3 day horse trials, they may waive coats due to heat and humidity, but that will be decided by the show management, and they will make an announcement on the grounds to let you know.

    Our local eventing association follows all of the USEA rules for their unrecognized horse trials. Most of our unrecognized horse trials are one-days. I have mentioned this rule to our board members (I'm on the board) and they also seemed to be unfamiliar with it. So, everyone is still wearing their jackets at these one-day local horse trials. I am trying to promote this rule because I think some parents are intimidated by the cost of all the "outfits" their kid has to have to compete in an unrecognized event.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2000
    Location
    Pretty much horse heaven
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    2,859

    Default

    I was scribing at a recognized event earlier this year and a Rolex rider was coming to the ring sans show jacket. The judge questioned her, and the rider referred to the rule above as the show was a one-day show. Judge apologized, acknowledged that the rule and rider were correct, and rider proceeded with her ride sans coat. So: I think you are interpreting it correctly, but that it's not a well-known/understood rule. It was the first I'd hear of it (one-days are rare in the midwest where I moved from, but more common in the SE where I live now).
    Hindsight bad, foresight good.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 2008
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    Sunshine State
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by justhoofit View Post
    It was my understanding that at recognized events jackets were required; unless it is VERY hot and an announcement is made by officials at the show.

    Generally, if I'm confused I will sometimes ask the person at the in-gate or TD.

    Did you take your new mare to novice event already?? Or was this a different horse?

    No, I took my coach's old guy. He takes good care of me.
    My understanding of the rule is that a conservative shirt is okay, no jacket required, but if I've been misunderstanding it, please correct me! I certainly won't do it again any time soon. (I don't think we have another one-day horse trial any time soon anyhow)
    The rebel in the grey shirt



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan. 19, 2005
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    PA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWB View Post
    No, I took my coach's old guy. He takes good care of me.
    My understanding of the rule is that a conservative shirt is okay, no jacket required, but if I've been misunderstanding it, please correct me! I certainly won't do it again any time soon. (I don't think we have another one-day horse trial any time soon anyhow)

    You were right. You were perfectly fine in a grey shirt with a collar and no jacket.

    Around here....it is VERY common to not wear a jacket...at all levels. We have a lot of HTs where you have all phases in one day. If your division goes with everything on the same day...you do not have to wear a jacket even if the HT has divisions on other days. People just wear a conservative color for their shirt.
    Last edited by bornfreenowexpensive; Nov. 19, 2012 at 06:09 AM.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 1999
    Location
    Ohio: Charter Member - COTH Hockey Clique & COTH Buffy Clique
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    9,143

    Default

    I went to an unrecognized event the year after that rule was enacted and the judge mentioned it to me after I finished my 2nd dressage test. I told him of hte rule and while he admitted he didn't know about it but didn't argue with me, he did indicate he would prefer I wear one. Whatever. I actually didn't even bring one with me and even if I had, probably would have stuck to my guns at that point because I was in the right -- following the rules as written. But that's just the PITA in me.

    You're fine. Follow the rules. It's not like they can eliminate you for it and who knows... maybe the organizer will actually read the rulebook before January.
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug. 30, 2011
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    Default

    I've done both - worn my ratcatcher with collar (no stock tie) sans jacket at a 2 day when jackets were waived, and show jumped at a one day in a polo when it was really hot. Both are fine.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar. 26, 2008
    Location
    Maine
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    1,855

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWB View Post
    I asked him about this rule and he said he'd never heard of it, and when I pulled up the rules a bit later (as respectfully as possible - I was freaking out) he said that the rule assumes a show coat is worn over that shirt.
    THAT (putting a jacket over a shirt with no neckwear) would have been wrong. You were correct in your interpretation. I've previously asked on this forum about wearing a jacket over a shirt with the collar open/no neckwear (as was popular with the jumper kids for a while) at a 1-day HT and Janet confirmed that it's either jacket/shirt WITH neckwear or no jacket with collared shirt SANS neckwear.
    "Last time I picked your feet, you broke my toe!"



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct. 12, 2002
    Location
    Aurora, OR U.S.
    Posts
    243

    Default Are you misunderstanding the intent of the rule?

    No, you do not understand the intent of the rule. In fact you understand it perfectly. We passed that rule, precisely to make competing at one day events easier, since there is no reason for all the time consuming costume changes.
    Malcolm


    10 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWB View Post
    By show jumping time (after lunch) it was considerably warmer, so I decided to take advantage of this rule:
    8. At Eventing Tests or when all three phases of a Horse Trials are contested over one day
    - Protective headgear and protective vests as above. Clothing as appropriate for the test in
    progress (see below), or at the competitor’s option - boots, britches, spurs and gloves - as
    applicable for the test being performed. Long or short sleeved shirt with collar and without
    neckwear, of a conservative color, neatly tucked into riding breeches.

    I removed the show shirt, stock tie, and jacket and rode in a plain gray Kerrits riding shirt, tucked in, collar open. Yes, I was the only one not in a jacket, but I was comfortable, and not particularly bothered by it..
    Your interpretation of the rule is correct. If all three phase are one day, you do not need to wear a coat at all. I do it all the time.

    The ONLY possible quibble would be whether "gray" is a "conservative color". I would consider it conservative, but someone else might not. But you DEFINITELY don't need to wear a coat.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
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    Feb. 3, 2000
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    Nokesville, VA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slp2 View Post
    My understanding was that at one-day horse trials, the rule you posted applies. As I read it, no jacket is required, and if you don't wear a jacket, you can't wear a collar or neckwear. ...
    ... Hopefully Janet will chime in here--she will know.
    I assume it is just a typo, but for Dressage and Show Jumping,if you don't wear a jacket, You MUST wear a shirt with a collar and sleeves.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
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    Oct. 20, 2008
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    Sunshine State
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    Default

    Thanks all! I did just get an email from one of the organizers saying that my shirt was just fine. Now to make sure other people know about the rule so I don't stick out like a sore thumb if I ever choose to take advantage of it again....
    The rebel in the grey shirt



  16. #16
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    Aug. 9, 2002
    Location
    Fairfax, VA USA
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    Default

    JWB, this rule has been in effect for a few years now (Janet would probably know how long ), and as mentioned, you were completely in the right.

    What concerns me is that an ULR would be out of touch with the current rules (and to upbraid you, and be wrong? Yikes!) He was also wrong about the jacket over a shirt with no neckwear...:-/

    I coach riders at the lower levels all the time, and I make it a point to be on top of all rule changes so as to prevent them from being eliminated on some technicality (and yes--in a perfect world, THEY would be the ones who read the rule book, and stay abreast of the current rules!) Even if this ULR doesn't compete in any "one day competitions" himself (which would be unusual, especially these days), I would think that he coaches students who do compete at one day competitions--so *should* be familiar with this rule.
    "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

    "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")



  17. #17
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    Oct. 20, 2008
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Doolittle View Post
    What concerns me is that an ULR would be out of touch with the current rules (and to upbraid you, and be wrong? Yikes!) He was also wrong about the jacket over a shirt with no neckwear...:-/
    He was actually very polite in the delivery of the message, but right as I was coming out of SJ, when my nerves were still frazzled and I just wanted to discuss with my coach & breathe for a few seconds, so the whole conversation just kind of blindsided me... I don't change gears so quickly and I'm sure the conversation wouldn't have felt so mortifying if it had been 10 minutes later once I'd had a chance to decompress. I probably could have come up with more coherent response than stammering, "but there's a new rule for one day shows...." I swear my IQ drops 50 points when the nerves kick in.

    I also agree that he should have been aware of the rule but no one is perfect, and he knows about it now anyway.
    The rebel in the grey shirt



  18. #18
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    Apr. 20, 2009
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    Raeford, North Carolina
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWB View Post
    I swear my IQ drops 50 points when the nerves kick in.

    .


    Don't we all?!?

    Well I give you credit, it sounds like you handled an uncomfortable (and unnecessary) predicament like a really good sport. Good for you for politely informing him of the rule instead of sulking away and then bashing the entire show cadre on COTH (like has been done many times).

    Wear your grey shirt with pride!
    "Drawing on my fine command of the English language, I said nothing" - Robert Benchley
    Cotton would fight.
    http://buildingthegrove.blogspot.com/


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  19. #19
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    Aug. 9, 2002
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    Default

    Yes, props to you JWB for keeping your cool! It's difficult when someone in a position of power and/or influence pulls you aside to give you a "talking to", even if they are polite--it can really throw you off your game, and make you second guess yourself--which is why people in those positions should think before speaking to a rider, and try to imagine the impact on the rider's state of mind. Unless it's a situation where the rider is obviously eliminated (or dangerous), can it not wait until *after* said rider is done with all phases?
    "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

    "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")



  20. #20
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    Jun. 16, 2009
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    Gray Court, SC
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    Default

    I'm still absorbing the idea that an ULR would deem to talk to us. Shocking!

    I could imagine that moment ...

    ULR: You know, you're not really suppose to ride Dressage Naked
    me: Holy Cow, <Fill in name of BNR>, I saw you at Pine Top,you have an amazing horse
    ULR: Thank you, but still you...
    me: hey, thanks for watching my test...gotta go, need to dress for cross country

    Half way home I'd realize what I was being told, laugh, then carry on for I know that BNR wont ever really remember who I was anyway TO paraphrase Bad Eventer, If I don't leave with an E, its a good day.

    Oh, and I agree you were correct in reading the rule.

    <pulling tongue from cheek>


    3 members found this post helpful.

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