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  1. #1
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    Default Home from the trainer's (yay!), talk to me re... (update w rads)

    Rory came home from the trainer's last night, which is so awesome for me because I've been missing his silly self. We w/t/c there and loaded up for the big trip home.

    Trainer had lots of good things to say about him, essentially that he's a WB with a WB brain, but loves to please and has the best work ethic. He also said that when the chiro was there, both he and the chiro think Rory will need injections in his left hock at some point. How common is that in young horses? Rory is 3.5. He has been a growing fool, and we didn't stick him last night at 10pm, but I think he's right around 16h or so. He's grown about two hands in the last 14 months. He is definitely taller than when he went to the trainer's in Sept. He is sound. I'm calling the vet on Monday to get his teeth done again, and will ask him when he comes out, but would like some info on this first . The only injections I'm familiar with are for lame horses with OCD, arthritic changes, etc; not young horses who don't have any problems yet.

    Also, now that he's back, we're going to be hitting up some schooling shows this winter and next spring. What memberships should I join next year? Even the local dressage barn has non-member fees for their unrecognized shows, most shows seem to do this now (as opposed to 12 years ago when I last showed). USEF? USEA? Whatever it is that exists now, since I think there have been changes? I plan on just doing dressage schooling shows and small shows for now, no jumping obviously, but we're eventually heading to the jumper ring and maybe eventing. I'm going to be taking a lot of lessons with a few different trainers, so I don't have one yet but should soon.

    TIA
    Last edited by TheJenners; Nov. 27, 2012 at 12:25 AM.
    Aisha, my heart from 03/06/1986 to 08/22/2008.

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  2. #2
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    Dec. 21, 2008
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    Default

    He shouldn't need injections at 3.5 unless he does have some sort of injury or trauma. As horses grow, they can go through a lot of changes. If he is lame due to a growth spurt I'd let him hang out and not do anything. If he isn't lame, I'd keep the riding light until he stops growing as fast. A joint supplement wouldn't hurt and could be good for a fast growing WB. Do you have rads on him so you know there's nothing going on? Lots of racing TB's get injected at 2 and 3 but if you're boy hasn't done much and doesn't have changes he shouldn't need them. They aren't a magic bullet for anything happening with a joint.

    As for associations, you don't need USEF membership for a lot of the local shows, but they a lot of times have their own associations/memberships for year end awards, etc. Check with the secretaries of the shows you want to go to and they should be able to help you.



  3. #3
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    No rads. Might have some flexions done I guess.Thanks!
    Aisha, my heart from 03/06/1986 to 08/22/2008.

    COTH's official mini-donk enabler.
    Odie, aka the Evil Burrito, is on Facebook.



  4. #4
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    Default

    I can only speak to shows down this way, but the local schooling dressage shows do not charge USEF stuff--if it isn't a rated/recognized then they can't charge those fees. For the local hunter/jumper shows, there are no "membership" fees to show, you only join OHJA for example, if you want to work toward year end points.

    Injections for a 3.5 year old? I find their conclusion suspect with no rads or flexions, heck, no vet visit! My 15 year old packer who has jumped a billion jumps gets twice annual vet visits, evaluation and hock injections to maintain his comfort (he isn't lame, certainly, but not 100% comfy at his age/condition). I'd perhaps have a vet out to do a basic lameness or what have you exam and shoot his hocks if you have a reason to do so-if for no other reason to get a baseline for future reference, but don't inject unless a vet/rads indicate it.
    Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!


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  5. #5
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    Default

    Unless I'm reading the OP wrong, there was no conclusion that the horse needs injections right now... just that he might need them at some point. Which, depending on what the planned career for the horse is, is varying degrees of likely. Perhaps there is something in his conformation that predisposes him to having hock issues. Please note I'm not saying that there is; I've never seen the horse in question, but it's certainly a possibility.



  6. #6
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    Mar. 18, 2012
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    Default

    That seems sort of presumptuous of trainer/farrier to suggest. I mean...they don't have a crystal ball, and he's only 3.5!
    I'm with kmwines01, he's probably growing. Check him out, supplement him, give him some time to grow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nickelodian View Post
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  7. #7
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    I think it sounds like you have an in tune, pro-active trainer. Flexions are a red herring most of the time, do some rads so you have them to compare down the road, and then do a lot of waiting and seeing.
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm



  8. #8
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    Default

    I am with mroades and will elaborate a little.

    sometimes in a young horse you see things, the way they carry themselves, the lead they favor, the leg they push more with, the one they hesitate before lifting when grooming, the way they feel on that side undersaddle, the way they rest it.. And the horse is sound. He works well. He is progressing. So you make a mental note of it " watch that xxxxxx"

    I dont think I would have phrased it the way this trainer did to the client, but I would have for sure made a point to mention my observations. I have one right now, whose owner I told when he was three, "that right hind.. Hmmmmm". At that time it checked out fine. Horse is six now and its time to have another peek...
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
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    I think that's the case. He's always been prone to be hipshot with one hind leg, and he went from unlimited turnout to being stallbound for two months at the trainer's, and that was the only leg that stocked up. So I guess we'll see. But thanks for all the input everyone.

    Anything else on memberships? I hate paying unnecessary fees...
    Aisha, my heart from 03/06/1986 to 08/22/2008.

    COTH's official mini-donk enabler.
    Odie, aka the Evil Burrito, is on Facebook.



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJenners View Post

    Anything else on memberships? I hate paying unnecessary fees...
    You need to check with your local associations. When I rode in GA, you didn't have to join any local organizations unless you wanted to go for year-end awards and there was no "non-member" fee. That's not necessarily true in PA/NJ, some associations make you join or pay a fee at each show. It really depends.

    USEF/USHJA you only need if you're going to show at a few rated shows. There's a non-member fee but it's not too pricey unless you plan on showing more than a handful of times. At that point it's more cost effective to join and get an annual membership. But if you're never going to show rated shows, or maybe do 1-2, it's probably not worth it.

    You need to figure out what your plan is, check the association rules, and then price it out/decide.
    ~Veronica
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  11. #11
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    Dec. 23, 2010
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    Regarding the USEF/USHJA fees (because I went through that dilema last year) if you're going to end up doing 2 rated shows or more at some point in 2013, it is worth it to join rather than pay the non-member fees. I suggested to a friend recently that she start joining now and spread the fees out so she's done with each assoc. by the time we hit Vermont in July. You have the USEF member fee, your USHJA member fee, and your USHJA horse member fee (lifetime for $30). It sucks to decide at the end of the year in August that you ARE going to a rated show and now you owe it all at once at pretty much the end of the show year



  12. #12
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    Excellent idea! Thanks
    Aisha, my heart from 03/06/1986 to 08/22/2008.

    COTH's official mini-donk enabler.
    Odie, aka the Evil Burrito, is on Facebook.



  13. #13
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    Dec. 21, 2008
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    Default

    Thanks for being a better reader than me, supershorty! I focused on her asking about injections for young horses rather than the trainer's statement. Get some rads done to have a comparison for when he gets older, has any issues, gets sold, etc. Always nice to know if what you're seeing on rads with a lameness is actually a change from sound rads.

    Good luck with him and maybe talk to a vet that specializes in physical therapy to work on strengthening exercises for that leg to help support his joint.



  14. #14
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    I never join anything unless I have to in order to enter the show or want to go for year end awards in some organization or other. That's been true everyplace I have lived and/or even visited. You don't have to join unless they require you to as a condition of entry and, IIRC correctly, this one is not going to be USEF rated ready for a bit yet. Save your money.

    Put it towards some rads. Flexions are really only useful in locating areas that need further diagnostics, not for making a diagnosis-makes them limp off, does not tell you why one leg is worse then another. Not a bad idea to get rads of both hocks now-they are not that expensive-and use them as a baseline for the future. They would also let you know if there is a problem laying in wait for you down the road so you can get interactive with managing it now.

    I shudder sometimes at how casually people sometimes go to injections without ever checking on what is actually wrong and being sure they will help and not hurt the actual condition that requires them.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

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  15. #15
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    Nov. 1, 2005
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EqTrainer View Post
    I am with mroades and will elaborate a little.

    sometimes in a young horse you see things, the way they carry themselves, the lead they favor, the leg they push more with, the one they hesitate before lifting when grooming, the way they feel on that side undersaddle, the way they rest it.. And the horse is sound. He works well. He is progressing. So you make a mental note of it " watch that xxxxxx"

    I dont think I would have phrased it the way this trainer did to the client, but I would have for sure made a point to mention my observations. I have one right now, whose owner I told when he was three, "that right hind.. Hmmmmm". At that time it checked out fine. Horse is six now and its time to have another peek...
    Agreed. I would ask trainer to elaborate but likely he/she saw little signs that made them go "hmmm". In your position I would get digital Xrays of the hocks (and other views, since you have already paid for the farm call) as baseline and then be attentive to how he uses himself, appropriate fitness for level of work etc. I would also add MSM to his diet if he is young, growthy and maybe a just a bit ouchy.
    I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.



  16. #16
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    Thanks for the great post F8 :-). I have already called for rads, not digital but still. I don't willy nilly go injecting things, which is why I was asking. I've only had older horses DID need injections for the last 10 years, so I just wasn't sure.

    Thanks again everyone!
    Aisha, my heart from 03/06/1986 to 08/22/2008.

    COTH's official mini-donk enabler.
    Odie, aka the Evil Burrito, is on Facebook.



  17. #17
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    Nov. 13, 2009
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    OP, have you ever had digital x-rays done on a horse? If you have, you know that they are about 1,000,000,000,000 times better than non-digital x-rays. After seeing what digital x-rays look like, I feel like "traditional" x-rays are about as useful as me painting a watercolor of what I think my horse's bones look like.

    I really would spring for the digital x-rays, especially if you intend to use them as a baseline for this horse going forward. Now that my horse is 7 and having some hock issues, I sure wish that my prepurchase x-rays from when he was 3 had been digital instead of the unreadable pieces of crap that I actually got (no, not all traditional x-rays are "unreadable," but unfortunately mine were and the vet in question did not re-shoot).

    ETA: I just got digital x-rays of my horse's knees last week. They were $50 per view from a clinic that is known for being a bit on the pricey side. Well worth it, IMO, for the clarity of the images.



  18. #18
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    Only digital!
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  19. #19
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    I didn't even know you could get the non digital x-rays anymore!
    Just have an experienced vet read them,, because you can see more than you need to and sometimes things look like something and the horse is fine, most vets go on flexions for soundness.
    Good luck, post pics!!
    Also to determine if he needs hock injections, usally the vet doesn't rely only on x-rays, but also on flexions.



  20. #20
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    I am going to agree, wait and get digital when it works for you! They are a bazillion times better than traditonal rads.
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm



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