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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar. 6, 2002
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    5,997

    Default Opinions on this grain, please! Tag info included

    It's a locally milled "Wellness" low NSC formula:

    GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
    Crude Protein Min 14.0 %
    Crude Fat Min 8.0 %
    Crude Fiber Max 20.0 %
    Calcium Min 0.9 %
    Calcium Max 1.25 %
    Phosphorus Min 0.7 %
    Copper Min 60 ppm
    Selenium Min 0.6 ppm
    Zinc Min 150 ppm
    Vitamin A Min 5,000 IU/LB
    Vitamin D3 Min 2,000 IU/LB
    Vitamin E Min 100 IU/LB
    Biotin Min 0.75 MG/LB
    Starch Max 8.5 %
    Sugar Max 3.0 %

    And, on to the ingredients: Soybean hulls, rice bran, wheat middlings, suncured alfalfa meal, canola -- meal (? edge of tag is torn), cane molasses, soybean oil, calcium carbonate, hydrated sodium --- calcium aluminosilicate, salt, lignin sulfonate, vitamin E supplement, Zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, sodium selenite, vitamin D supplement, vitamin -- supplement, viotin, dicalcium phosphate, monocalcium phosphate, whole flaxseed, linseed meal, dried egg product, d-calcium pantothenate, choline chloride, ascorbic acid, vitamin b12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, DL-Methionine, Natural and Artificial flavors added, sodium bentonite, saccharin sodium, freeze dried lactobaccillus acidophilus, bifidobacterium thermophilum fermentation product, bifidobacterium longum fermentation product dehydrated, enterococcus faecium fermentation product dehydrated, dried aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, dried aspergillus niger fermentation product, dried saccharomyces cerevsiae fermentation solubles.



    I'm not super educated on low NSC diets, and wasn't really in search of one -but I ran across this yesterday at the mill and was curious what the greater minds have to say about it.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb. 11, 2011
    Posts
    1,395

    Default

    How many pounds are you planning on feeding?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar. 15, 2012
    Location
    Taft, TN
    Posts
    289

    Default

    Better question would be what the horse is doing. This looks like a good feed for either a horse in moderate work or a harder keeper with the higher protein and fat contents.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar. 6, 2002
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    5,997

    Default

    Yes, I have a hard keeper that needs to put on a few pounds, usually working 5-6 days a week (eventer-in-training!) but has been laid up with an abscess for the last month (causing the appetite loss and subsequent weight drop!). He's a BIG boy and is already getting premium, free choice hay (alf/orchard mix).

    D Taylor, if you're asking what the recommended feeding is, it says 4-6lb for horses in light use, 7-9 for "medium" use. I can't say how much this particular horse would be getting without giving it a try first, best guess would be ~6lb? He won't eat much more than about 3 quarts, volume-wise, at one meal.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2010
    Location
    North AL
    Posts
    862

    Default

    I would say that protein doesn't need to be 14% and fat should be higher. I would add oil and beet pulp too. have you tried Legends Performance or TC Senior? I prefer the Legends personally. I use Olive Oil, about 1/2 cup am and pm for my hard keeper



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 11, 2011
    Posts
    1,395

    Default

    Typically I feed a 12%CP....even for my hard keeper. But I balance for EAA's. It is common practice (but not actually a great one) to bump up a feed not balanced for EAA's by 2% (hence the 14%CP). SBHs tend on the adequate side for lysine, wheat mids tend on the adequate side for methionine....tho some people feel these are waste products and not simply by-products that actually have something to offer. But again I would want to see the EAA profile. Remember you want a bottom line of EAA (grams in daily ration and not a %).

    Personally I love SBH's. Great fermentable fiber and low NSC wrapped up all in one and a dummy proof fiber stretcher during those years hay comes in from the fields in less than stellar quanity nor quality, However this ingredient may not be ideal for a horse that tends not to eat well. They do tend to "fill a horse up" and be counter productive at higher levels in the ration. I always keep SBH below 6lb per head per day and in hard keepers keep that amount more around 3.5lbs or less.

    At 6lbs of feed vitE is a bit low unless the horse has access to good pasture. I generally supp mine at ~750IU per 1100lb horse during the non grazing season (which also tends to be my light riding or no riding season).

    Hard to say if this feed would at 8% CFat and fed at 6lbs and help add wt to your big horse without have a better GA specifically giving you calories per pound. At that level your are jacking up the calories yes. But realistically at 20% Cfiber and SBH's as the 1st listed ingredient roughly guessimating at this fat level only ~200-250cal/lb additional.

    If this horse is a good eater of his hay already I think your money would be better spent on a product such as Omegatin if he is truly a hard keeper.

    But if he tends to pick at hay and eats this well he could actually benefit from the higher fiber feed. Such feeding helps my hard keeper. He is a slow muncher when it comes to hay. So a high fiber/fat feed that he can "rapid reload" on really helps him out.

    I like the zinc and copper levels. And always nice to see probiotics and yeasts.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan. 22, 2006
    Posts
    2,153

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruiser12 View Post
    I would say that protein doesn't need to be 14% and fat should be higher. I would add oil and beet pulp too. have you tried Legends Performance or TC Senior? I prefer the Legends personally. I use Olive Oil, about 1/2 cup am and pm for my hard keeper
    TC sr is 14% protein as well....



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    36,072

    Default

    I would feed it at the lower recommended amount and see where that gets you. If you need to feed a bit more, nothing wrong with that.

    if you end up needing to feed 10lb/day, then I'd either look to another option, or add some beet pulp.

    I just don't like jumping to feeding more fat unless and until a horse proves he needs more.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2010
    Location
    North AL
    Posts
    862

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whbar158 View Post
    TC sr is 14% protein as well....
    True!



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