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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2006
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    Saco, Maine
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    He's dangerous and painful doing anything but walking under saddle, right? How soon before he becomes dangerous and painful walking under saddle and who will be sitting on him at that moment? I would put the beautiful boy down. You cannot pass him on, full disclosure or not. If you send him on, chances are he will bump around when his first person gets tired of supporting him. The next one who takes him might be the one who thinks he's going to make this horse work for a living, etc etc. You only have to scan this board for 10 minutes to find hundreds of give-aways gone bad.

    I put my EPSM Thoroughbred down for this very reason. The idea of somebody somewhere treating his beautiful painful self badly was too much to bear. Instead, he got to eat 4 bags of peppermints, 2 bags of carrots, got a quick stick in the neck and that was that. Well, not really that, I still weep over him, 6 years later, but he's safe from suffering and that's all that mattered to me.

    When you do find a decent vet, make the appointment a week ahead then use that week to love on that horse. If the date draws closer and you feel it is the wrong choice, you can cancel the appointment. My guess is that you'll see it is the right decision.

    Good luck.
    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 2009
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    1,049

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    Find a new vet. If nothing else, I'm sure the vets back at Cornell would kindly euth him for you.
    That quick, painless end is MUCH better than the possibility of where he might end up otherwise, if you choose to rehome him.
    Vets who will not euth horses who aren't clearly DYING at that very second make me sad. There are so many other factors to consider!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2009
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    4,598

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    I'm surprised at how many people think the best option is to euth what sounds to be a pasture sound horse. I would personally keep him and try to free lease him to someone who needs a pasture pet, with you paying his shoeing/vet costs but no board (as someone else suggested). I would be very reluctant to lose control over a horse like this, which is why I would not give him away or sell him. I think he could endure a lot of suffering in the wrong hands. If I could not find a situation like this for him, I would look for an inexpensive but safe pasture board situation for him and fund it on my own dime until he is no longer comfortable in retirement AT WHICH POINT I then think it would be appropriate to euthanize him.

    I personally could not euthanize a horse that is comfortably pasture sound but just not useful as a riding horse. I think it is wrong. The only exception to this would be if I could not afford to feed, clothe, and house myself if I kept the horse (i.e., dire financial situation). I would not euthanize for my own convenience, even if that meant that I could not afford another horse until the present one passes away.

    But that's just me and what I can personally live with. It is the only way I can have horses at all, because the ethics of doing it any other way are a major problem for me.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
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    16,136

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    I ight agree with you, FA, were it not for the fact that this horse has a degenerative condition causing neurologic defects. He's in a position to fall and hurt himself or others at any given moment. I'd prefer to give a horse like this a kind ending before he gets worse. It's not as though he has a fixed injury that is unlikely to get worse quickly. This horse had gone from normal to sound at the walk only and neurologic in a frighteningly short period of time. If the vet says he's not improving, I would not want to push my luck and see if he can be maintained at pasture.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/


    6 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2006
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    2,527

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    Myself I would find an inexpensive boarding place and see if he can be happy and comfortable as a pasture pet or I would let him go. Would gabapentin help him any, can help with nerve pain. I would not attempt to re-home him though.



  6. #26
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    Nov. 13, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    I ight agree with you, FA, were it not for the fact that this horse has a degenerative condition causing neurologic defects. He's in a position to fall and hurt himself or others at any given moment. I'd prefer to give a horse like this a kind ending before he gets worse. It's not as though he has a fixed injury that is unlikely to get worse quickly. This horse had gone from normal to sound at the walk only and neurologic in a frighteningly short period of time. If the vet says he's not improving, I would not want to push my luck and see if he can be maintained at pasture.
    That's a fair point. I'm not especially familiar with this disease, but if it is true that he could go downhill quickly and without warning, then I may be more inclined to agree that euthanasia is more appropriate.

    I also find it really funny that I got two thumbs down for offering my opinion on this topic. Um, the OP asked for options, which I gave.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
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    Philadelphia PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineAlready View Post
    That's a fair point. I'm not especially familiar with this disease, but if it is true that he could go downhill quickly and without warning, then I may be more inclined to agree that euthanasia is more appropriate.

    I also find it really funny that I got two thumbs down for offering my opinion on this topic. Um, the OP asked for options, which I gave.
    To be fair, I have been following some of the other OP's threads (I have my own sudden interest in Vitamin E since my horse came up deficient) so I know more of the backstory than is just on this thread.

    Ignore the thumbs. I've decided that 99% of the people who bother thumbing around her are under the age of 12, need Prozac, or are criminally insane
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    Nov. 13, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    To be fair, I have been following some of the other OP's threads (I have my own sudden interest in Vitamin E since my horse came up deficient) so I know more of the backstory than is just on this thread.
    Ah, got it. Well, the main thing I wouldn't do is give him away with no strings attached, I suppose. That's a recipe for pain and suffering.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct. 9, 2012
    Location
    Washington State
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    506

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    I would not free lease this horse out to anyone as a pasture pet. If he looks sound at a walk, and is as gorgeous as the OP says I can see someone deciding to try and ride him, regardless of whatever they have been told. People do dumb things.

    I do not know anything about his disorder but if it is even half as bad as some of the posters have said then I would find a vet to put him down. I had to put down my daughter's horse because of epsm. He wasn't in pain but he was really weak in the hind end and had trouble getting up from a prone position among other things. It's never an easy decision and I am sorry you and your family have to go through this.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    Ignore the thumbs. I've decided that 99% of the people who bother thumbing around her are under the age of 12, need Prozac, or are criminally insane
    What are thumbs??
    Click here before you buy.



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    What are thumbs??
    Look at the bottom of each post. There's a little green thumbs up and a little red thumbs down. If you click on them, you will drive sane board members batty. Many people on this board seem to like to spend all day following their favorite members giving them good or bad thumbs. Of course, there's NO CONTEXT so you don't know why you got the back pat or bum slap and you don't know who gave it to you. Best as I can tell, it's some kind of newfangled light version of cyberstalking/bullying for adults. Can you tell who's not a fan of this??!!
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  12. #32
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
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    I HATE the thumbs. Both up and down but especially down. Take your down thumb and sit on it!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
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    Dec. 25, 2005
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    1,921

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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    Ignore the thumbs. I've decided that 99% of the people who bother thumbing around her are under the age of 12, need Prozac, or are criminally insane
    I think I need to give this a thumbs up


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    May. 21, 2008
    Location
    Sonoma County, California
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    So sorry for you, OP. Do you have loss of use insurance on this horse?

    Whatever you do, please don't just pass him along. Horses like this can so easily wind up in a weird situation, being 'repurposed.' I had a boarder who rehabbed her Lipizzan gelding after a severe injury. He healed up but was not safe for riding. She gave him away, papers and all. A year later she found out they'd somehow gotten him going and had sold him for big bucks to someone unsuspecting.

    I'm with others who say that it might be kindest to find someone who will euthanize him. Hard to imaging that Cornell would not do that for you.



  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    Ah, these are the things that pop up in "notifications" with bizarre, long strings of numbers and the word "good" and "bad"? I was somewhat mystified by that and since I mostly "COTH" on my iPad that string of numbers doesn't actually do anything. Mystery solved! How dumb . . . is it supposed to discourage people from saying things other people might not like? In which case, I guess I'm doomed.

    ETA I notice I cannot "thumb" myself. Dang.
    Click here before you buy.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
    Posts
    15,399

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    OP, start with Cornell. Having been around that vet school, I think you can find some folks who will understand your predicament and be willing to euthanize him if that's what you want.

    Also, they may find him especially interesting/worthwhile for a terminal study since they have examined him. Once you donate a horse to a university, you have no say whatsoever in how he is used, but it may be that with this horse, they show him to their lameness class, fill in the details of his case and then do a necropsy on him. That's not the worst end possible for a horse.

    Best of luck to you.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  17. #37
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2007
    Location
    Canada
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    4,086

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    I personally could not euthanize a horse that is comfortably pasture sound but just not useful as a riding horse. I think it is wrong. The only exception to this would be if I could not afford to feed, clothe, and house myself if I kept the horse (i.e., dire financial situation). I would not euthanize for my own convenience, even if that meant that I could not afford another horse until the present one passes away.

    But that's just me and what I can personally live with. It is the only way I can have horses at all, because the ethics of doing it any other way are a major problem for me.


    I am horrified by how many people make killing a sound happy horse out to be "an act of kindness". Spare me. It's what my vet (and likely the one who won't euth the OP's horse) calls "convenience killing".
    www.svhanoverians.com

    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
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    I guess it depends on how you define "sound" and "happy". I had a "sound and happy" one that had recovered about 95% from EPM, except she wasn't REALLY sound--one day she decided to gallop, fell down, and ruined herself, turning a stable situation into an immediate disaster requiring emergency euthanasia. I would rather not have had to witness the last few hours of that wonderful mare's life the way it happened. Better too soon than too late. IMO (feel free to give me the thumb--it appears to be anonymous so have at it!)
    Click here before you buy.


    15 members found this post helpful.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Oct. 21, 2003
    Posts
    8,689

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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    I guess it depends on how you define "sound" and "happy". I had a "sound and happy" one that had recovered about 95% from EPM, except she wasn't REALLY sound--one day she decided to gallop, fell down, and ruined herself, turning a stable situation into an immediate disaster requiring emergency euthanasia. I would rather not have had to witness the last few hours of that wonderful mare's life the way it happened. Better too soon than too late. IMO (feel free to give me the thumb--it appears to be anonymous so have at it!)
    No kidding. Neurologic problems are very serious. It is worse IMO to keep them alive due to our guilt or fear or cowardice, and risk a horrible end.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jul. 6, 2007
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    943

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donella View Post
    I am horrified by how many people make killing a sound happy horse out to be "an act of kindness". Spare me. It's what my vet (and likely the one who won't euth the OP's horse) calls "convenience killing".
    That may be, however this is not a "sound happy horse"

    Many times euthanasia IS the kind thing to do for a neurological horse. Spend some time around one & it will break your heart.

    As a prey animal who has to escape by running - not having a grasp on where your legs are, is not any way to live a life.

    Others may disagree, but after first hand experience, you form a different opinion.

    OP: Maybe you could check with your local Universities to see if any of them are conducting research on EMND. If it was something you're interested in, your horse could be of use for research (genetic or otherwise). Not sure if that is something you would want to do - that's a personal thing, but you may find comfort in your horse contributing to discovering more answers on this awful disease.

    So sorry that you are having to go through this!


    5 members found this post helpful.

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