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  1. #21
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    Dec. 19, 2009
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    If they received money from the USEA and the check was cashed I would think they have a contract with you. I have yet to meet an event that couldn't fit another person in when they MUST fit a person in. I do understand the reasoning for denying the use of another persons spot IF they had not cashed the check but if they took the money, they owe you a spot. Doesn't matter what they need to do, they need to do it.


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  2. #22
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by flashwhitelock View Post
    If they received money from the USEA and the check was cashed I would think they have a contract with you. I have yet to meet an event that couldn't fit another person in when they MUST fit a person in. I do understand the reasoning for denying the use of another persons spot IF they had not cashed the check but if they took the money, they owe you a spot. Doesn't matter what they need to do, they need to do it.
    Except that almost universally the Omnibus CLEARLY indicates what, precisely, is done in the case of over-subscriptions or scratches. A contract signed by and agreed upon by the entrant with their signature on the entry form! If one does not agree with the policy that an individual show has WRT scratches and waitlists, one has several options. None of which include getting offended after the fact, after signing the entry form and (presumably) having read the Omnibus and being aware of that competition's specific rules, when the rules are suddenly inconvenient.

    Don't like the policies? Don't enter the show.

    Ever tried scheduling 100+ rides in mid-November with limited daylight? No? Do give that a crack some time and come back and re-state your conviction that you've NEVER met an event that couldn't squeeze in another rider.
    Click here before you buy.



  3. #23
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    Jan. 6, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRyderKy View Post
    I am in the habit of emailing show secretaries within 1 week of sending my entry UNLESS I hear from them first. If it is close to the closing date, I send a "heads up" my entry is coming email to the secretary prior to sending my entry. This is regardless of my method of entry.
    I do the exact same thing. Its not too tough to send an email and most promptly reply. I snail mail a lot, but I also use event entries.
    I am on my phone 90% of the time. Please ignore typos, misplaced lower case letters, and the random word butchered by autocowreck.




  4. #24
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    Mar. 6, 2002
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    Oregon
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    Quote Originally Posted by PollyFW View Post
    I then printed, signed, and sent off hard copies of the entry and stabling forms.

    There was – apparently my paperwork went astray and that was that. I was not entered, I was not on a waiting list, and there was nothing I could do. Even though the secretary could clearly see that I entered and paid on October 2nd, I had absolutely no chance of competing.
    So, if I'm reading correctly, both the ONLINE entry AND the PAPER COPY of the entry were not received?

    Or does "went astray" mean that they were received, but not processed/retrieved/misplaced by the secretary?

    I think much depends on whether they were never actually received, or if someone dropped the ball and lost/misplaced/overlooked the OP's paperwork. From the second part I quoted above, I'm inclined to think that the entries WERE received but something went amiss in the process after receipt.

    Obviously probably not anything that can be done now, but it does sound like someone screwed up.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson



  5. #25
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    Oct. 22, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by S A McKee View Post
    Eventing should go to a 'free enterprise' system and ditch the involvement with USEA.
    In H/J land there are several choices of online entry vendors. None of whom are affiliated with USEF or USHJA.
    Your entries ( and payments if the show allows it ) go directly to the show secretary, funds never go to a middleman like USEA.
    You get an immediate acknowledgement that your entries were submitted to the show.
    There ARE other online entry programs commonly used by eventers, including evententries.com which is what I use for my entries. The problem has more to do with what happens when an event is over-subscribed on opening date. Unlike H/J, because of the need to schedule dressage times, there are far fewer horses which can compete at your average event, as compared to your average H/J "A" show. It is entirely possible that the event filled even with your entry being sent and credited appropriately in the system, but that so many other folks entered as well that they could not accomodate you. That being said, the secretary should not have cashed your check, or should promptly refunded it, were they not accepting your entry. If they do not do so, you have full recourse with USEF to recover the funds they owe you (including all starter and any office fees).



  6. #26
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    With Xentry you MUST print and send hard copies. It is not a good idea, it is a necessity.

    The "disconnect" with Xentry and organizers appears to be at the step following an entry being made on line and the organizer getting wind of the entry. Usually once the papers arrive, the secretary figures out that the original entry was made on line, and payment will be coming by that route.

    If the papers were not received, that is different than the more "typical" snafu where an organizer is not aware of the entry until the papers arrive. And could be indicative of a problem starting where the envelope was posted anywhere down the line and all the way to the organizer's desk!

    I do hope they get it figured out before next season!
    Click here before you buy.



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2003
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    Guthrie, OK
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    There is not a perfect way to contact the secretary/organizer to check on your entry, no matter the event or the system. Trust me, I have tried them all and have failed at all of them.
    I have called--left messages only to have have them never returned.
    I have emailed--only to have them never responded to until after closing date.
    I have snail mailed--only to have the leter still never reveiced and it is now 1 1/2 yrs later
    I have snail mailed with delivery confirmaition, with the delivery confinration confirmed--only to learn that when it goes to a PO Box, the DC only means the letter got the Post office, not into the correct PO box or picked up.
    I have sent it overnight by UPSP--only to find out that the secretary does not check their mail box for overnight deliveries, only their front door. And USPS doesn't deliver overnight mail to the door, only to the mail is normally delivered.
    I have sent it FedEx overnight with copies of all the usual forms that I print from same 1 file on my computer that has all the forms for entries that I use every show--only to be told later that I did not include the Jockey Club TIP form but if I had I would have won $100. (I include this form even for shows that don't participate in the program because 1) it might just be a "hint" for them and 2) it is part of the file I print and it just prints automatically with all the other pages)
    I have updated online "missing" information after completing an online entry--only for it to never show up as a complete entry and that that piece of information is still missing via on line even after I picked up my packet.
    I just got a reminder from EventEntries that my signature pages have expired--The 2012 show season isn't even over yet. And the 2013 signature pages aren't even available from USEA yet.
    I had one organizer/secretary tell me that if I wanted to be sure my entry was recieved and complete and was actually recieved ON opening day then I should drive to the secretary's location and hand deliver it, have her go thru the forms to be sure they are all correct and correct anything that is missing before I leave.

    Now, having shared my nightmares of over 20 yrs of competing/entering both recognized at schooling events from GAG thru CCI2* in 6 areas, I have to admit I am absolutely appalled by your story. I cannot believe a secretary would accept/cash a check for an entry and not bother to match paper work to it. That is just boggles my mind. She accepted payment for a service/product and has failed to provide that service/product. I would bet you could be real bitch and get an attorney involved, if it is really that worth it to you.

    But it seems that no matter how you do entries any more--electronically, snail mail, or combination there of, you are bound to get screwed sooner or later, even though you did do everything right.

    I have now come up with 2 methods (will have to wait and see how and when they fail!!):
    1) Stick with EventEntries whenever availalble and have all my forms on line/digital with them.
    2) When doing SnailMail 1) use FedEx overnight and 2) add another page to the packet of forms that lists each page that is enclosed along payment method/check number and how it is being sent (Fed Ex, USPS, etc) with boxes for the recipient to check off that each item is recieved (like a packing list!) to do yet more CMA.

    Good luck, and live and learn.



  8. #28
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    Oct. 26, 2007
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    San Jose, Ca
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    You would think that when they cashed the check that they would have cross referenced it with an entry. They cash checks that they can’t account for?


    4 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    I have never used a check for entry with Xentry--always credit card. I'd think if I were planning to mail a check I would just put it in the envelope WITH the entry form, Coggins, and stabling info. That way if they cash my check I *know* they've gotten all my paperwork!

    Organizers frequently bank checks as they come in, and do refunds after the show when they are needed. It takes a lot of money up front to pay for judges, portable stalls, EMTs, course improvements, etc. A lot of shows do not have slush funds or money in the bank to pay for shows--they rely on entry fees each year. A reckoning of the books after the show is when refunds are accounted for. This is neither wrong, illegal, immoral or the least bit suspicious--it's simple bookkeeping.

    To those who are insisting the show is doing these nefarious deeds out of pure laziness or sloppiness, please do volunteer some day to be an organizer or secretary. Then do please check back with us and tell us how easy it is.
    Click here before you buy.


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  10. #30
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    Mar. 6, 2002
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    Oregon
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    To those who are insisting the show is doing these nefarious deeds out of pure laziness or sloppiness, please do volunteer some day to be an organizer or secretary. Then do please check back with us and tell us how easy it is.
    No one is saying it's easy. Do you really think it's OK that the sec. received an electronic entry AND a paper entry (both complete) for the OP at the same time the payment was made, and that said entry never made it into the schedule?
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson


    7 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31
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    Oct. 26, 2007
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    San Jose, Ca
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    I have never used a check for entry with Xentry--always credit card. I'd think if I were planning to mail a check I would just put it in the envelope WITH the entry form, Coggins, and stabling info. That way if they cash my check I *know* they've gotten all my paperwork!
    I do not think the OP sent in a check. Maybe I am wrong, but I read this as OP signed up online, and paid by CC online – that is directly to USEA, who then turns around and cuts a check to the event. OP also mailed in paper work to the event, but it appears that was lost. So show sec. lost paper work, and cashed check for an entry that they did not account for (even though she was entered online), and then told the OP, too bad, so sad.

    I know this stuff isn’t easy, and I do not think that the show sec. was out to get anyone, but when the error is on THEIR part, THEY should take some steps to rectify the situation. They HAD the money, there was evidence of online entry, and the OP sent in paper work. – Show how show sec. lost paper work, and didn’t enter OP – but DID cash the check and take the money for the entry (but didn’t know who it was for?)

    So will there be a new show sec. etc when it becomes Fresno Horse Park?


    4 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    Mar. 24, 2009
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    698

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    Quote Originally Posted by MeghanDACVA View Post
    2) When doing SnailMail 1) use FedEx overnight and 2) add another page to the packet of forms that lists each page that is enclosed along payment method/check number and how it is being sent (Fed Ex, USPS, etc) with boxes for the recipient to check off that each item is recieved (like a packing list!) to do yet more CMA..
    ? Enclose a self addressed stamped envelope and ask the show sec to confirm your entry by checking the boxes??? and offer how a minute spent doing that far outweighs responding to emails or phone calls??


    Overall what a ridiculous situation and heartbreakingly sad too!



  13. #33
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    It is unfortunate all around, for certain. The secretary certainly could have tried to rectify the situation, but IN GENERAL if one looks at a list of accepted entris week after week and one's name doesn't show up, that would be a signal to contact the secretary right away. Sounds like one of those "live and learn" scenarios many of us go through when we're new to the intricacies of the sport.

    I and many other people have, I'm sure, made the mistake of thinking that mailing in entries to ARRIVE on opening date was a clever way of ensuring the entry would get in. That is, in fact, not the way it works and a very kind and helpful secretary clued me into this a lot of years ago and generously had me postmark an envelope with the proper "post opening date" date on it to make things legal and proper so my entry could be accepted. Lesson learned.

    Sometimes a show just fills on opening date, and even doing everything right does not guarantee entry.
    Click here before you buy.



  14. #34
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz 57 View Post
    No one is saying it's easy. Do you really think it's OK that the sec. received an electronic entry AND a paper entry (both complete) for the OP at the same time the payment was made, and that said entry never made it into the schedule?
    This is exactly, EXACTLY what happened to me at Richland Park this year. I just didn't get in. It turns out that I was told flat out that I'd used the "wrong" on line entry system, which made me quite angry--if I'd used evententries instead of Xentry I was told I would have gotten in. As it is, I still think it's "OK" in that (in this case) the mistake seems to have been genuine on the part of the organizer (it happens) and the OP was not "blacklisted" for using the "wrong" entry system. Or it's possible (this was not clear to me) that the event was simply just FULL in which case yes, the check should not have been cashed but if a refund is given then there's no harm, no foul . . . it was just an entry that didn't make it in ahead of the others.

    For the record, my credit card payment was accepted by Richland, the check from USEA cashed, and I never did get in (again, with a friend even offering me their spot) but I *did* receive a full refund including office fees a couple of weeks after the event.

    So I have walked a mile in the OP's shoes. Only in my case it was a bit of nepotism, not a legitimately full entry list, a genuine mistake, or human error, that cost me my entry.
    Click here before you buy.



  15. #35
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    Mar. 24, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by PollyFW View Post
    Over the ensuing weeks, I regularly checked the RamTap website for a list of accepted riders. It was not until the first week of November, well after the closing date of October 30th that it was posted.
    As well most people do check the secretary's list and so did the OP.


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  16. #36
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    Mar. 6, 2002
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    Oregon
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    It is unfortunate all around, for certain. The secretary certainly could have tried to rectify the situation, but IN GENERAL if one looks at a list of accepted entris week after week and one's name doesn't show up, that would be a signal to contact the secretary right away. Sounds like one of those "live and learn" scenarios many of us go through when we're new to the intricacies of the sport.
    The way I read it (which could have been wrong), the list was not made available until AFTER the closing date had passed, though.

    It sucks, and obviously nothing can be done after the fact if the show is full, but a little humility goes a long way. OP wasn't on a wait list at all - I believe she said she wasn't even on the secretary's radar as a "received" entry (waitlist or on the schedule) until she called and the secretary went looking for her entry paperwork.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    Reread the OP again--now I see how there was no list of accepted entries until after closing date. That is a bummer. I'm not sure (other than this year's Richland fiasco which was not actually a matter of errors or misplaced paperwork) that I've ever had an entry lost, misplaced, or not wind up where it belonged in 16 years doing this sport, so perhaps the OP has gotten all his/her bad luck out of the way right out of the start box? Given the scores of entries I've sent with nary a one going astray, I'm inclined to think it's just bad luck and not a sign of deep-seated cracks in the way shows are organized. Still crummy to miss one's local show--I live an hour from Richland so I get it!
    Click here before you buy.


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  18. #38
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    Oct. 15, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by GotSpots View Post
    There ARE other online entry programs commonly used by eventers, including evententries.com which is what I use for my entries. The problem has more to do with what happens when an event is over-subscribed on opening date. Unlike H/J, because of the need to schedule dressage times, there are far fewer horses which can compete at your average event, as compared to your average H/J "A" show.
    Am I correct in understanding that there are multiple systems you can use to enter one particular event? If so, this is not the same as in h/j land. H/J show managers pick ONE of the available software products, and manage everything from online entries to results to billing through that software. If a show manager uses "horseshowtime", you can't go enter that show through "horseshowsonline".



  19. #39
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    Feb. 23, 2009
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    PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by wanderlust View Post
    Am I correct in understanding that there are multiple systems you can use to enter one particular event? If so, this is not the same as in h/j land. H/J show managers pick ONE of the available software products, and manage everything from online entries to results to billing through that software. If a show manager uses "horseshowtime", you can't go enter that show through "horseshowsonline".
    Yes, you're correct. EventEntries is a third party system that organizers can choose to use, and the newer system, XEntry, was rolled out by the USEA, so all USEA sanctioned events can be entered through their system (at least that is my understanding, I have never personally used XEntry but have never had a problem with EventEntries)
    If it were easy, everybody would do it.

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  20. #40
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    Jul. 16, 2003
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    Guthrie, OK
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    Reread the OP again--now I see how there was no list of accepted entries until after closing date. That is a bummer. I'm not sure (other than this year's Richland fiasco which was not actually a matter of errors or misplaced paperwork) that I've ever had an entry lost, misplaced, or not wind up where it belonged in 16 years doing this sport, so perhaps the OP has gotten all his/her bad luck out of the way right out of the start box? Given the scores of entries I've sent with nary a one going astray, I'm inclined to think it's just bad luck and not a sign of deep-seated cracks in the way shows are organized. Still crummy to miss one's local show--I live an hour from Richland so I get it!
    Delta
    Read my previous my post. My experiences are not the result of one entry. On average, I send in at least an entry a month, sometimes more, and have that many for the past 3 yrs, and before that, at least a half dozen a year. So they are MULTIPLE experiences. All since the advent of electronic entries, etc. "Back in the good ole' days" when the only choice we had was mail and the phone, seems none of this stuff happened? We all sent our entries in, on time, with a SASE (self addressed stamped envelope for those of you who don't know what SASE stands for) so you could get your ride times snail mailed to you before arriving to the show and getting your packet, if you cared. And many of us didn't care.

    Some shows are very good about posting and updating entries and their status promptly, and keeping them current. Others are not so good. And it doesn't seem to be a function of EventEntries vs not EventEntries since some of those are updated frequently and others aren't. No rhyme, no reason.

    My strategy: CMA, period.


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