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  1. #101
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    Mar. 8, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    OP, this sport costs too much for it not to be fun. Where's the joy? When is your horse just allowed to be a horse and meander down the trail or gallop around without having to be on the bit or carry himself? This entire situation is what turns people off of dressage.

    If I were you I would trade in your dressage saddle for a good jumping saddle and start having fun with your horse.

    Geez. There are always people you can pay to tell you there is something wrong with your horse that only they can fix, and it's going to cost you. Walk away from them.
    Nonsense.

    What if the OP doesn't want to jump and is scared to trail ride? No more happiness ever for you OP.

    And for you info, the horse is sore, I doubt he would enjoy a jumping session very much...

    You are not the OP. You don't know this horse.

    The OP seeked help because she is unable/doesn't have time/doesn't have the desire to train her horse.
    She bought the wrong horse for her needs/goals.

    What does jumping have anything to do in this situation?
    Last edited by alibi_18; Dec. 9, 2012 at 07:32 PM.



  2. #102
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    Oct. 2, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by alibi_18 View Post
    Nonsense.

    What if the OP doesn't want to jump and is scared to trail ride? No more happiness ever for you OP.

    And for you info, the horse is sore, I doubt he would enjoy a jumping session very much...

    You are not the OP. You don't know this horse.

    The OP seeked help because she is unable/doesn't have time/doesn't have the desire to train her horse.
    She bought the wrong horse for her needs/goals.

    What does jumping has anything to do in this situation?
    Nothing, Miss Congeniality. The point is that the discipline of dressage has done diddly for this horse. What is lower level dressage? It's riding in a series of 20 meter circles at trot and canter. The subtleties of that are marvelous for the rider, but if I hear one more H/J friend say that when their horse can no longer jump, they'll just do dressage, I 'll scream. Horses must be very sound, even for lower level dressage. Add to the mix her early NH training of going around endlessly in a 10 meter circle, and no wonder she broke down.

    This horse is sore. That should be telling someone something, and to me, it makes sense to try getting out of the dressage court and do something else with the horse.

    Maybe this mare does not have the conformation for the work. This would make it difficult for her. If it were easy for her and she enjoyed it, she would be further along.
    A helmet saved my life.

    2014 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #103
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    Mar. 13, 2007
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    Northern Virginia, 45 minutes east of paradise - 2 hrs during rush hour
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basie View Post
    The conversation with my trainer (in lieu of my weekly lesson) about riding my horse more turned into a discussion about the veterinary osteopath’s recheck that happened earlier the same day.
    Gosh, what BS. You had to give up a LESSON for this? The only time you actually get to ride your horse?
    How does this guy convince you that what you want is wrong and what he wants is right?
    Honestly if he is making your horse that sore, I would say that he is likely riding your horse wrong. The horse should be getting fit, not sore. A little sore, sure. So sore that one vet wants to do injections? No way.
    Don't run away from this trainer. Run TOWARD another trainer. Find someone who will work with you and the horse as a team. You need an ENABLING trainer, not a disabling one.

    As an example, I called a very well respected trainer because I ran into an issue that I felt I would might screw up. He is hours away and I was ready to drop said horse on his doorstep. He said, sure, you could do that, but really **you** need to train the horse. You are the one who is going to be riding her, the two of you need to develop the partnership. So we talked on the phone for a hour or so and I got my head wrapped around the problem and I worked it out. And he was so right. It made a huge difference in our partnership. And I had an open invitation to bring the horse and myself to his place for a weekend of work if I needed it. Which I haven't needed, but I still plan on heading down there in the spring to give the horse a field trip :-)
    "The mighty oak is a nut who stood its ground"

    "...you'll never win Olympic gold by shaking a carrot stick at a warmblood..." see u at x


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #104
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    Sep. 11, 2011
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    isn't that a lot of soreness in a younger horse? I would be concerned and reduce the schedule personally...

    You are not in the drivers seat and it seems slightly taken advantage of. I think all horses need some down time and it does not appear the horse does anything but dressage.

    If there is no behavior issues I say ride the horse, its not made of glass! Unless you want a show horse that is only ridden by a trainer I say go for it, make mistakes, and learn. That is what the rest of us do LOL....


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #105
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    Aug. 11, 2000
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    Chantilly,va.
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    This trainer is about to kill the "golden goose", you! who, has provided him with a horse to ride as well as paying his meal ticket
    breeder of Mercury!

    remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans



  6. #106
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    Sep. 26, 2010
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    "The conversation with my trainer (in lieu of my weekly lesson) about riding my horse more turned into a discussion about the veterinary osteopath’s recheck that happened earlier the same day."


    ?? Dump this trainer and move on. Find someone who will help you become a partner with your horse.



  7. #107
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    Apr. 9, 2012
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    NYC=center of the universe
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    I don't see how the relationship with the trainer can be salvaged. YOU need to be able to ride YOUR horse. I would tell the trainer this and ask why he won't allow it. Is the horse not suitable? If not a suitability issue, the trainer needs to make it work for you or you need to find another trainer. You're paying the bills. The trainer should be tailoring the program to make the horse suit your needs. He's either capable of and interested in doing that, or not. All the best.
    Edit: wait, he won't talk to you about your needs? I would fire his ass!! Seriously. He's not interested in working with you and doesn't give a shit about your goals.
    Born under a rock and owned by beasts!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Mar. 30, 2004
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    Lexington, KY
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    Why is this horse at a dressage barn? I've seen lovely programs in H/J barns or even Eventing barns that involve lots of varied work for young horses, lots of calm hacking out, and poles and interesting things to keep it fun for the horse. What's the attachment to a dressage barn if you've admitted the horse doesn't have any upper level potential? I'm a little confused by the whole story myself, but it sounds like you don't have a lot of experience with the whole horse "scene" and that's alright. I've also met some upper level Pony Clubbers with excellent young-horse training skills and lunging skills. Perhaps you could find a strong Pony Clubber and pay him or her to teach you horsemanship and lunging and have him or her work with your mare for a LOT less than a Dressage trainer. If you're happy with the way things are going, leave it alone, but just throwing out some other options that you may not have thought of. Lots of different disciplines use lower level dressage skills in their flatwork as well, and a good program of any discipline will slowly increase your mare's work while maintaining her soundness.
    send some of their smart literate deer who can read road signs up here since ours are just run of the mill dumb ones who get splatted all over creation because they won't stay in the woods


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #109
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    Nov. 6, 2009
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    Basie, thanks for the update. I appreciate how difficult your position is, but honestly there are a few red flags for me here.

    First of all, you should not have had to give up your weekly lesson to have a simple conversation about your horse's health and program with your trainer...that's VERY wrong. Secondly, I would completely ignore the advice/opinion of someone who told me that my horse's hocks were sore, neck was stiff, and stifle was "reactive" (whatever the heck that means) when said horse is visibly sound and not showing any evidence of issues under saddle. Just to recap, a horse that is visibly sound and that is not showing any issues/symptoms under saddle is SOUND. The second vet's opinion sounds a lot more reasonable...horses in work do occasionally have some aches or pains and your horse doesn't even have any evidence of that...so leaving well enough alone probably the best course of action.

    Now, I'm still completely confused as to why you can't ride your horse. She's sound, you've told us that she is an appropriate mount for you...so what's the issue? Why isn't your horse "usable" for you? To sum up, I'm having trouble imagining a valid reason why an amateur rider couldn't ride their own sound and appropriate horse, especially with the help of a trainer.

    I think what it boils down to is that some trainers would rather ride other people's horses than teach other people how to ride their own horses. And you have to decide whether or not you are willing to bankroll training services that don't get you closer to your goals. I think your trainer's comment that "maybe" you can ride your horse in the future is pretty nebulous...at a minimum I'd say if you aren't riding as much as you want in a month I'd be making a change.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #110
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    Aug. 14, 2004
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    fwiw, as someone who charges my clients by the hour (as do trainers) if someone wanted to discuss their business with me i for sure would charge them for my time and/or depending on how tight my schedule is we might have to use their allotted time slot to do so - so i personally dont see anything wrong with her paying for the trainers time and or using her lessons time for an extended conversation if the trainer is booked solid.

    as for the appropriateness of horse being in full training etc - really none of us can say as we have not seen the horse and the owner. It could be the trainer is taking owner for a ride and it could be that the trainer has the horses well being foremost in his mind and is trying to create a horse the OP can enjoy for years to come. (how many here have horses that are not quite what they had hoped/dont progress as they hoped etc? who don't have trainer riding as opposed to those who do have the trainer riding who are able to advance etc. )


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #111
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    Jun. 14, 2007
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    TX
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    I think he realized you were unhappy about the lack of communication and might be worried you're about to pull your horse. That's why he offered information on the "good" ride.

    I'm still in the camp of pulling the mare and finding a trainer that will work with both of you.



  12. #112
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    Mar. 29, 2006
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    Basie,
    Are you the same Basie on UDBB? If you are, you are in the same state as I am.
    My suggestion to you is to come have a lesson on Mocha (my horse) with my trainer Dot Demis. She will give you an accurate and fair description of your riding ability.

    I sincerely doubt your riding is as horrible as your trainer is making it out to be.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #113
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    Feb. 11, 2002
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    I didn't read this whole thread, but I had read the beginning and am now reading the more recent posts.

    If this horse TRULY needs THAT MUCH TRAINING, and there has to be THAT MUCH of a limit on how much you can ride her, then she's not the horse for YOU! Who's supposed to be riding this horse??? YOU ARE! Is she DANGEROUS for you to ride without a trainer working with her all the time?? If that's the case, she's not the horse for you! This is supposed to be FUN and you are supposed to be able to ride your horse and enjoy her. So either you have a trainer that's a control freak, or you have a horse that's not good for you.

    I prefer a horse where it doesn't matter if I don't ride the horse perfectly every time, and I only need a trainer if we come to any humps in the road, or if I want to advance their training a little bit. You aren't going to "ruin" your horse if it's not being ridden perfectly all the time. People ride horses all the time NOT in a perfect dressage frame, it's not the end of the world! If you want to do dressage, fine, work WITH a trainer, and not be the trainer's thorn in his side!! It's all about you and your horse having a relationship, good, bad, or average!



  14. #114
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    Sep. 24, 2008
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    MBM...you would have a horse in training for an extended length of time, be uncommunicative about how things are going, not allow the owner to ride except in lessons once a week and then CHARGE the owner when they want to talk to you about some concerns?

    That's FUBAR'd.

    Basie, you're being taken advantage of, plain and simple. If you're happy with that, cool. If not, find another trainer and move, ASAP. Personally, I don't want to be used by anyone, nor have my horse used as a bargaining chip to keep me under their control.

    NJR
    Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behaviour does.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  15. #115
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    Aug. 7, 2012
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    316

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    It this bizarro world?

    The OP's posts are depressing. I will never own a horse I cannot ride or board or train with someone that doesnt encourage me to ride my horse or help me sell the one I had the misfortune of buying and get something more suitable.

    The longer she is with this trainer, the less likely she is to leave, sell horse, or be able to ride herself. Its like one of those bad relationships that everyone can clearly see is bad/ unhealthy/wrong for her but no matter how much talking, the person cant see it.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  16. #116
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    Oct. 29, 2003
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    Ocala, FL
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    I really feel for you OP - the earlier issues you had are coloring your decisions in regard to this current trainer. Your fear of having her become sore again is making you stay with someone who is obviously not a good fit for you even if he is a good fit for your horse. I have a 10 year old Irish Draught that I bought as a weanling, and I am so grateful that every trainer I have been to has involved me in his education and has taught both of us, but just my horse. I switched from hunters to dressage last year, mainly because my new trainer (who teached both, but is more focused on dressage) is so good with both me and my horse. My horse LOVES her and is so soft and willing. I trust her and am confident that I can do what she is asking of me. She would love it if I could ride MORE, not less. She does still prefer that she ride him once a week because we did have a bad issue going on when she first came into the picture - I had been without a trainer for about a year and had started to have real problems at the canter, so it has taken a long time to undo the damage.

    Anyway, I would take the follow poster up on the offer to check out their barn and maybe quietly start to look at other barns without letting this trainer know. You and your horse deserve to work together!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #117
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    Aug. 14, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nojacketrequired View Post
    MBM...you would have a horse in training for an extended length of time, be uncommunicative about how things are going, not allow the owner to ride except in lessons once a week and then CHARGE the owner when they want to talk to you about some concerns?

    That's FUBAR'd.

    Basie, you're being taken advantage of, plain and simple. If you're happy with that, cool. If not, find another trainer and move, ASAP. Personally, I don't want to be used by anyone, nor have my horse used as a bargaining chip to keep me under their control.

    NJR
    Well... full training - especially with a green or mis trained horse can need the full time attention of the trainer *if the rider isn’t up to the job* - that is totally common. and usually - depending on the horse and the riders ability - the trainer will bring the rider in for rides as they see fit - usually 1x/week at first then 2x etc.

    As for communication - horse trainers are an interesting breed and I have met *plenty* that were not good at communicating with humans.... so I don’t hold that against the trainer at all.

    as for time/$ - again, if the trainer is booked solid then they only have the allotted time slot... and yes, since i charge by the horse my clients get charged for my time - even if it is just "talking" - time is money.

    the horse may not be appropriate for the OP - but it is clear she likes this horse.

    How would you folks feel if the OP were to take this horse out of training and the horse or the rider got hurt?



  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nojacketrequired View Post
    MBM...you would have a horse in training for an extended length of time, be uncommunicative about how things are going, not allow the owner to ride except in lessons once a week and then CHARGE the owner when they want to talk to you about some concerns?

    That's FUBAR'd.
    NJR
    Well... full training - especially with a green or mis trained horse can need the full time attention of the trainer *if the rider isn’t up to the job* - that is totally common. and usually - depending on the horse and the riders ability - the trainer will bring the rider in for rides as they see fit - usually 1x/week at first then 2x etc.

    As for communication - horse trainers are an interesting breed and I have met *plenty* that were not good at communicating with humans.... so I don’t hold that against the trainer at all.

    as for time/$ - again, if the trainer is booked solid then they only have the allotted time slot... and yes, i can see the trainer not having extra time for an extended conversation and/or wanting to keep their schedule on rack.

    the horse may not be appropriate for the OP - but it is clear she likes this horse.

    How would you folks feel if the OP were to take this horse out of training and the horse or the rider got hurt?
    Last edited by mbm; Dec. 10, 2012 at 12:58 PM.



  19. #119
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    Sep. 24, 2008
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    Well, I must have a very unusual trainer because even though he has many training horses, young stock being brought on, student lessons and two farms (a sales barn and a brood mare farm), to look after, he still has time to discuss my horse with me...at no extra charge.

    NJR
    Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behaviour does.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  20. #120
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    Nov. 6, 2009
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    Erm, I have worked with different trainers in different disciplines over the years and had many conversations about the horses in question and their progression and planning for the future and I have never been charged for this. If I had a horse in full training with someone and the trainer wanted to charge extra to discuss how that horse was doing or to review the plan for that horse I would be flabbergasted. I can't imagine having to give up a lesson to communicate with a trainer. In any case, the only reason the OP needed so much time to talk to the trainer is that the trainer did not appear to be understanding her goals.

    If I wanted to ride my own horse, I would expect the conversation to take about five minutes:

    "Joe, I want to ride Fluffy myself. How can we accomplish this?"
    "Bee, you aren't good enough/he's not good enough/you need a different horse." Or, "Bee, he's not sound, so neither of us is going to ride him. You are wasting your money paying me to ride him." Or, "Okay, Bee, let's start working towards that, here's how:..."

    IMO, when a horse is in full training with someone, you are paying them by the JOB, not by the hour, and part of that JOB is keeping the owner updated regarding the horse's progress & future plan (within reason of course).


    4 members found this post helpful.

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