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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Oct. 16, 2008
    Location
    Central Oklahoma
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    3,113

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    Quote Originally Posted by dacasodivine View Post
    Is it really that horrible for an owner to want to be able to enjoy her horse and to "just" trail ride? It doesn't sound like she's unsafe to ride, just not where the trainer would like her to be in dressage. The mare might not have the mentality to do dressage.

    The OP has admitted the mare was started too early. The best thing she might do with her is let her be a horse for a while then put her back in training or take lessons on her with a good trainer.

    Look at the post by someone on how it's done in Australia. It's routine for people, even people with limited riding experience, to bring along their own horses. It can be done. It may not get done as quickly as having the horse in full training, but this way the owner gets the pleasure of riding their own horse.
    Of course it's not horrible for owners to just want to "trail ride". However, I doubt that is what OP has in mind. If she wanted to "just" trail ride, she would not have gotten a warm blood, and would not have sent her to various "dressage" trainers. Tons of seasoned QH would have fit the bill for a fraction of cost of a warm blood.

    I'm not talking about getting that mare competitive for show - I'm talking about that mare needing more education for that mare to be balanced enough for the owner to enjoy and not get scared her mare or herself. Unless that trainer is a complete crook, based on the description provided by OP, I am leaning toward that trainer understands the difficulty of riding young horses and don't want the owner to hurt or get her confidence shattered.

    I don't know what people in Australia' do. Maybe they are braver, maybe the riding skills of average amateurs are in average better than ours, or maybe there are plenty of broken bones and they just suck it up and deal with it.



  2. #82
    Join Date
    Aug. 7, 2012
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    322

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    Just sell the mare and get something you can ride as much as you want to RIGHT NOW without having to worry so much about this and that and her training/trainer, sheesh. Sounds like your damned if you rider her more and her training does downhill or damed if you dont rider her more and you are miserable.

    Who wants to wait 2-3 years more of training? pffft to that.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Nov. 6, 2012
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    211

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    If all you want to do is "enjoy" your horse - take her to another barn and enjoy her! I've had my mare almost 7 years now - it was definitely a "green on green" situation and we've had our share of problems. But, she is my horse and I wanted to be the one to establish the relationship and do the training. Would she be WAY more advanced with a trainer? You betcha! Does SHE sit around complaining that she'd be a champion if she wasn't stuck with me? HA!

    Somebody earlier said you and your trainer may be expecting too much from your mare in expecting her to work in self-carriage - that may be correct. There are a whole lot of horses out there doing nothing but "noodling around" and they and their owners are enjoying themselves.

    Horses are expensive and unless she (and you) have the potential and the desire to show upper level, you might as well enjoy her while you're paying all those bills! If you like the trainer and the facility is it possible to keep her where she is but take her out of training and increase to two or three lessons a week?

    I'm also one of the 50+ re-riders and I got my horse because I love horses and wanted them in my life again. Not for someone else to train/ride her while I looked on and wrote out the check. We've both learned a lot and I wouldn't trade those years for anything!

    Good luck and have fun!


    4 members found this post helpful.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2009
    Location
    Montreal, Qc
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    However, he's not interested in talking to me "off the clock", really isn't interested in my goals as the owner/rider and won't offer any updates on my horse's progress (unless asked) other than to say that she needs to get stronger
    Regarding that quote.

    Why can't OP talk to the trainer during training time? A bit before the lesson or or a bit after or during her weekly lesson? Or set up a meeting time with the trainer. I can't believe that in 6 months, with a weekly lesson, she was unable to talk with her trainer even once.

    Trainer won't offer any updates. (unless asked) . Isn't that just normal? When OP ask about her horse's progress she gets an answer. Should the trainer be writing and calling the OP everyday? OP is riding there once a week. She sees the progress every week and has a chance to talk about it at least once every week. How is that not enough?

    As for talking about her goals. Well according to OP, the horse isn't fancy, she wants to do low level dressage. She haven't mention showing or not.
    How long does it take to make plans/training schedule for such goal? How many times, how often and how long of a conversation should the trainer have with the OP about her low level riding goals?

    Sound pretty insecure and demanding clients to me.

    Sorry OP, it might not be this way at all.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2009
    Location
    Mission,B.C
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    721

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    im sorry but if been in a similar situation and i for better lack of the word dumped trainer.as i was paying too much for training i was getting and horse ended up worse then what i started with,and didn't have any interest in my goals.
    2-3 yrs..you got to be kidding me!!!!!!!
    by what i read i see a trainer that wants your horse for him/her self and to fill their pockets at same time.
    move yourself and horse to someone else.
    if trainer didn't keep updated/or wouldn't talk to me about it
    wouldn't allow me to be present for some training sessions.i run the other way.atleast thats me.



  6. #86
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2000
    Location
    Greenville, MI,
    Posts
    11,849

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    Quote Originally Posted by EcstaticLady View Post
    If all you want to do is "enjoy" your horse - take her to another barn and enjoy her! I've had my mare almost 7 years now - it was definitely a "green on green" situation and we've had our share of problems. But, she is my horse and I wanted to be the one to establish the relationship and do the training. Would she be WAY more advanced with a trainer? You betcha! Does SHE sit around complaining that she'd be a champion if she wasn't stuck with me? HA!

    Somebody earlier said you and your trainer may be expecting too much from your mare in expecting her to work in self-carriage - that may be correct. There are a whole lot of horses out there doing nothing but "noodling around" and they and their owners are enjoying themselves.

    Horses are expensive and unless she (and you) have the potential and the desire to show upper level, you might as well enjoy her while you're paying all those bills! If you like the trainer and the facility is it possible to keep her where she is but take her out of training and increase to two or three lessons a week?

    I'm also one of the 50+ re-riders and I got my horse because I love horses and wanted them in my life again. Not for someone else to train/ride her while I looked on and wrote out the check. We've both learned a lot and I wouldn't trade those years for anything!

    Good luck and have fun!
    AMEN to this post sister!!! Could not have said it better!!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  7. #87
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    1,098

    Default

    Any updates?



  8. #88
    Join Date
    Nov. 10, 2012
    Posts
    20

    Default UPDATE:

    The conversation with my trainer (in lieu of my weekly lesson) about riding my horse more turned into a discussion about the veterinary osteopath’s recheck that happened earlier the same day. The vet found that my horse’s hocks were sore, that her neck was very stiff when turning to the left and that she was reactive in her right stifle (a new development). A chiropractic adjustment was done and I was told to have my horse’s hocks injected again. Although the vet told me she discussed her findings with the trainer, the trainer told me that all she said while watching my horse being lunged was that she wanted to see more movement in my horse’s back. He maintained that he hadn’t noticed any soreness/lameness while working my horse and recommended getting x-rays and a second opinion.

    I had the x-rays done and they were fine – the hocks and stifle were clean except for a slight bone spur on the left hock that we already knew about (and which didn’t concern the vet). The second vet gave me another point of view to consider: that it’s unrealistic to expect a horse in training to be pain free – it will have aches and pains just like any other athlete. Since the horse is visibly sound, the trainer isn’t noticing anything under saddle and her attitude towards work is good, his recommendation was to leave well enough alone -- continue with the monthly Legend shots, but don’t do injections unless the horse is actually manifesting discomfort. Since this sounded like perfectly reasonable advice and I’m not a fan of joint injections anyway, that’s what I’ve decided to do.

    Meanwhile, this episode reinforced my trainer’s position regarding limiting my riding to once per week. He didn’t want to commit to a set schedule because he couldn’t predict when he will be able to get the horse to a place where she will be “usable.” He won’t come out and tell me that my riding stinks on ice or address my concerns about how I’m supposed to improve my riding if I can only ride my horse once per week and the training costs prevent me from taking lessons or leasing a horse at another barn (neither is available at his barn). My pointing out that my mare isn’t FEI material doesn’t seem to make any difference. I think he genuinely believes this is the right course for the horse and not that he has any grand aspirations to use her to further his own reputation. In fact, he’s told me that he no longer likes to show because the judging is too subjective and political. Since he has his gold medal, I have to assume this is based on principle rather than just sour grapes.

    I’m learning a lot in my weekly lessons, but that only makes it more difficult not to be able to ride more. As a substitute, I’m searching for videos of good riding to provide myself with a mental picture to emulate when I do get to ride. I sent one video to my trainer to get his opinion as to whether he thought it was a good example, but got no reply.

    It’s possible that vets and trainers see me as the biggest sucker in the world and are taking advantage of me at my horse’s expense, but my horse seems more comfortable and happy at this barn than she’s been anywhere else. Today I actually got an unsolicited update from the trainer indicating that he had a “great” training ride on my horse yesterday and that he thought I would be able to maintain her almost by myself in the near future if her work continues to be good. So, although I wish my trainer was more approachable and willing to help me learn more about riding well, that obviously is not his style. I’ll just have to hope that the training has finally clicked for my horse and that I will be able to ride more soon -- this whole experience has been a lesson in dealing with frustration and learning to be patient. Thanks again to everyone for sharing your opinions/experiences on this topic.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2009
    Location
    Montreal, Qc
    Posts
    3,008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Basie View Post
    The conversation with my trainer (in lieu of my weekly lesson) about riding my horse more turned into a discussion about the veterinary osteopath’s recheck that happened earlier the same day. The vet found that my horse’s hocks were sore, that her neck was very stiff when turning to the left and that she was reactive in her right stifle (a new development). A chiropractic adjustment was done and I was told to have my horse’s hocks injected again. Although the vet told me she discussed her findings with the trainer, the trainer told me that all she said while watching my horse being lunged was that she wanted to see more movement in my horse’s back. He maintained that he hadn’t noticed any soreness/lameness while working my horse and recommended getting x-rays and a second opinion.

    I had the x-rays done and they were fine – the hocks and stifle were clean except for a slight bone spur on the left hock that we already knew about (and which didn’t concern the vet). The second vet gave me another point of view to consider: that it’s unrealistic to expect a horse in training to be pain free – it will have aches and pains just like any other athlete. Since the horse is visibly sound, the trainer isn’t noticing anything under saddle and her attitude towards work is good, his recommendation was to leave well enough alone -- continue with the monthly Legend shots, but don’t do injections unless the horse is actually manifesting discomfort. Since this sounded like perfectly reasonable advice and I’m not a fan of joint injections anyway, that’s what I’ve decided to do.

    Meanwhile, this episode reinforced my trainer’s position regarding limiting my riding to once per week. He didn’t want to commit to a set schedule because he couldn’t predict when he will be able to get the horse to a place where she will be “usable.” He won’t come out and tell me that my riding stinks on ice or address my concerns about how I’m supposed to improve my riding if I can only ride my horse once per week and the training costs prevent me from taking lessons or leasing a horse at another barn (neither is available at his barn). My pointing out that my mare isn’t FEI material doesn’t seem to make any difference. I think he genuinely believes this is the right course for the horse and not that he has any grand aspirations to use her to further his own reputation. In fact, he’s told me that he no longer likes to show because the judging is too subjective and political. Since he has his gold medal, I have to assume this is based on principle rather than just sour grapes.

    I’m learning a lot in my weekly lessons, but that only makes it more difficult not to be able to ride more. As a substitute, I’m searching for videos of good riding to provide myself with a mental picture to emulate when I do get to ride. I sent one video to my trainer to get his opinion as to whether he thought it was a good example, but got no reply.

    It’s possible that vets and trainers see me as the biggest sucker in the world and are taking advantage of me at my horse’s expense, but my horse seems more comfortable and happy at this barn than she’s been anywhere else. Today I actually got an unsolicited update from the trainer indicating that he had a “great” training ride on my horse yesterday and that he thought I would be able to maintain her almost by myself in the near future if her work continues to be good. So, although I wish my trainer was more approachable and willing to help me learn more about riding well, that obviously is not his style. I’ll just have to hope that the training has finally clicked for my horse and that I will be able to ride more soon -- this whole experience has been a lesson in dealing with frustration and learning to be patient. Thanks again to everyone for sharing your opinions/experiences on this topic.
    So, after all that, you haven't truly spoke to your trainer at all about your concerns.

    It has nothing to do with his style but really yours.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Nov. 7, 2002
    Location
    Central FL
    Posts
    5,375

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    "Today I actually got an unsolicited update from the trainer indicating that he had a “great” training ride on my horse yesterday and that he thought I would be able to maintain her almost by myself in the near future if her work continues to be good. "

    I translate that as "you will get more lessons, I will ride less frequently" ...

    I don't remember if you enjoy your lessons with him or not, but if you do then this situation sounds very promising.

    And it sounds to me that he "heard" you. So, if it was me, I'd be mentally calculating what "near future" sounds reasonable (me, 3-4 months given the situation) and setting the deadline for the transitioning.
    *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2012
    Posts
    1,759

    Default

    So nothing has changed.

    I hope this thread dies now.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2004
    Posts
    7,539

    Default

    what i find interesting is there are so many folks who don't seem to be concerned about the horses welfare and or/future ridability for the owner.

    the more time this horse is ridden by a very good trainer the better the experience will be for it's owner....

    so while it may suck for the year (or whatever) that owner can only ride 1x/week in the end the horse will be a solid citizen that will allow the owner many years of fun and learning.

    i guess i would pay that price.... it would be better than ending up with a horse that is never truly trained and the issues that might creep up in the case.

    OP - good for you for standing your ground and allowing your horse the best possible future. If your trainer is as good as you say - he has your horses well being foremost in his mind and will transition when the time is right.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2009
    Posts
    6,649

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    Thanks for the update I hope you're feeling better about the situation, at least.
    I'm glad you've decided not to inject at this time.

    Definitely keep looking for another trainer in your area that might better suit your style (generate a list of every barn/trainer, talk to tack shops, vets, farriers, equine therapists etc, go to local shows).

    Set up some goals (or deadlines) for yourself at least, eg, in 3 months I want to be riding my horse twice weekly (even if it's in lessons only, still), in 6 months etc.
    Discuss changing your lesson time to 2 x 30min lessons (followed by just cooling her out etc for another 10 - 20 min) - I suspect that with riding only once weekly, your balance & strength fade in the latter part of the hour anyway.

    Do insist on being able to watch more of the training rides ie schedule them just as if a lesson (though if you're delayed for some reason, trainer just rides according to schedule), tack/untack your horse, you should also be good to just hop on her at the end of a trainer ride to cool her out, & at least develop your saddle muscles.

    I'd expect lungework would benefit this horse, so ask trainer to teach you how to work her properly on the lunge.
    Take her for walks off property - make sure you're both good at this first (in the arena etc).

    I’m learning a lot in my weekly lessons, but that only makes it more difficult not to be able to ride more. As a substitute, I’m searching for videos of good riding to provide myself with a mental picture to emulate when I do get to ride.
    For videos, just tape your horse & trainer - try to get at least 1 video/week: watching these will help you visualize her progress & you can use them to show prospective trainers; also have a friend video your own rides/lessons: watching these will be very helpful to you
    (just ask people you know/other barn people etc - if I was in your area, I`d defintely come out & do this with you )

    Post on local boards/tack shops etc & look for a horse & owner who would be glad to trade rides for barnwork, housework, or whatever ...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #94
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    Jun. 30, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockpot View Post
    So nothing has changed.

    I hope this thread dies now.
    Why not just "not read" this topic as you seem to find it so distasteful? pointless? worthless?

    You have nothing invested in this horse - why so personally judgemental


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Jul. 8, 2006
    Posts
    31

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    I completely agree with what ToN Farm said, with the additional statements you wrote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Basie View Post
    However, he's not interested in talking to me "off the clock", really isn't interested in my goals as the owner/rider and won't offer any updates on my horse's progress (unless asked) other than to say that she needs to get stronger.



  16. #96
    Join Date
    Sep. 24, 2008
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    1,671

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    Did I read correctly that in order to have this discussion with your trainer you had to do it "in lieu of" your lesson? Seriously?

    If my trainer had so little time for me that I had to pay extra to speak to him, I'd be out the door.

    NJR
    Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behaviour does.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2012
    Posts
    1,759

    Default

    Why not just "not read" this topic as you seem to find it so distasteful? pointless? worthless?

    You have nothing invested in this horse - why so personally judgemental


    My post was not personally judgemental but maybe the same can't be said for your post?

    Nothing HAS changed and there is no point continuing the thread for more pages of the same advice , is there?

    The OP is happy with the status quo which is the same status quo she was complaining about in the first post (except now she knows her horse is sore).

    End of story.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #98
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    Mar. 8, 2009
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    Montreal, Qc
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    what i find interesting is there are so many folks who don't seem to be concerned about the horses welfare and or/future ridability for the owner.
    I think we all are. No one is saying this horse doesn't deserved to be trained properly. But does the OP's desire needs to be put aside for the sake of this horse?

    That is why a lot of people suggested the OP to sell this horse and get one that is more suitable for her now and find a trainer that will take her needs in consideration.

    The horse don't fit OP's needs right now.

    The trainer don't take OP's needs in consideration.

    Will the horse improve with pro-training? Of course, no one is denying it.

    Will the horse be ever suitable for the OP? No one knows and no one knows how long it could take.

    As per her OP, Basie wants to ride more and invest in her equitation. And as of now, she cannot.
    It is not the horse's fault, it is not really the trainer's fault.

    Basie, if you want to improve your riding skills, ask your trainer to sell this horse and get yourself something more appropriate you will enjoy right now.

    If you want to keep this horse and see it improve despite you getting better or not, that is fine too, then just keep the horse and pay for its training and learn to enjoy it.

    It just depends on what kind of owner you want to be and what makes YOU happy in the end. Horses are an expensive hobby.


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  19. #99
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2005
    Location
    Northeast
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    10,467

    Exclamation A teacher and ex-trainer's thoughts.

    Having waded through all the post here. Mine will be short. I don't believe in training a horse for someone else without having them active participants. I prefer to teach them as I train the horse. It is my feeling that anything else, unless you are dealing with a horse that the owner wants taken to the FEI levels ASAP is counterproductive.

    So Basie, were I you I would start looking for a trainer who can fill this position.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 2012
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    OP, this sport costs too much for it not to be fun. Where's the joy? When is your horse just allowed to be a horse and meander down the trail or gallop around without having to be on the bit or carry himself? This entire situation is what turns people off of dressage.

    If I were you I would trade in your dressage saddle for a good jumping saddle and start having fun with your horse.

    Geez. There are always people you can pay to tell you there is something wrong with your horse that only they can fix, and it's going to cost you. Walk away from them.
    A helmet saved my life.

    2014 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!



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