The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2012
    Posts
    3

    Default IRAP and Stem Cell together?

    Does anyone have knowledge/expertise in whether IRAP and Stem Cell Therapy can be used at the same time? I saw an old post (2007?) that I think said that Stem Cells needed the inflammation to grow new cells, and that the IRAP may interfere with that process. Think maybe it was a post by RAyers. Thanks!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2007
    Posts
    4,193

    Default

    We moved your thread here to the Horse Care forum from the Help forum, which is intended for threads pertaining to technical help questions about the site itself.

    Thanks!
    Mod 1



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2006
    Posts
    2,598

    Default

    I would think that stem cell and PRP are often used together. I would not think IRAP and stem cell would likely be used together.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2012
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Thanks, Mod and Fharoah. Fharoah, that seems to be what I'm finding but was hoping to have more response on here, especially from vets or researchers. I appreciate your input, Fharoah.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2001
    Posts
    6,762

    Default

    It all depends on what you want to do. The IL-1/IL-1ra path can induce mesenchymal stem cell proliferation, it can cause cancer cell differentiation from the stem cell if the PGE2 path is disrupted,....

    In other words, stem cells are so fickle and fragile, that I doubt you would get anything without lots of other factors present. With PRP at least you get a soup of known and unknown factors (chemokines, cytokines) that will interact with stem cells (there may even be some MSCs in the PRP).



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2012
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Reed, My horse had a large palmar RCB chip removed. There was advanced DJD both MCJ and ACJ, with full and partial thickness cartilage erosions, fibrillation and osteophytes. Stem Cell and IRAP were recommended, along with Bute and Legend. I too had heard of using PRP with Stem Cells, but not IRAP. The injections of Stem Cells and IRAP have occured on alternating weeks from each other. The Legend is given IV at the same time, and he was on oral Bute. I have read (I think on your post) that the Stem Cells require the inflammation to grow new tissue, and that the IRAP may interfere with that process. Is that only the case if they are given simultaneously on the same day, or even spaced a week apart? I really appreciate your help on this. Just want to make sure that one treatment didn't cancel out the other.



    Quote Originally Posted by RAyers View Post
    It all depends on what you want to do. The IL-1/IL-1ra path can induce mesenchymal stem cell proliferation, it can cause cancer cell differentiation from the stem cell if the PGE2 path is disrupted,....

    In other words, stem cells are so fickle and fragile, that I doubt you would get anything without lots of other factors present. With PRP at least you get a soup of known and unknown factors (chemokines, cytokines) that will interact with stem cells (there may even be some MSCs in the PRP).



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2006
    Posts
    2,598

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ellimae View Post
    Reed, My horse had a large palmar RCB chip removed. There was advanced DJD both MCJ and ACJ, with full and partial thickness cartilage erosions, fibrillation and osteophytes. Stem Cell and IRAP were recommended, along with Bute and Legend. I too had heard of using PRP with Stem Cells, but not IRAP. The injections of Stem Cells and IRAP have occured on alternating weeks from each other. The Legend is given IV at the same time, and he was on oral Bute. I have read (I think on your post) that the Stem Cells require the inflammation to grow new tissue, and that the IRAP may interfere with that process. Is that only the case if they are given simultaneously on the same day, or even spaced a week apart? I really appreciate your help on this. Just want to make sure that one treatment didn't cancel out the other.
    Based on what your describing another opinion may be a good idea. I have heard of using PRP into arthritic joints but that would cause an inflammatory reaction undesirable in joints. To my knowledge stem cell nor PRP will regrow cartilage so I am not understanding how either treatment would help in DJD?

    From your description IRAP and adequan might make more sense to treat the degenerative joint disease. But you may just want to start with a joint injection. IRAP is often the next step up in treating degenerative joint disease when cortisone HA is only having short term results.

    Good luck!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 11, 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    4,813

    Default

    My mare had a large amount of inflamation in her stifle and entire hip area for months after becoming cast behind, and shoving aside, a half-full water trough. This left her a 2-3 lame when weighting that leg for 3-4 years, with a shortened stride. Backing, she just dragged the toe back.
    I kept asking about stem cells as the ultrasound and/or radiographs (forget exactly now) showed a flat spot inside the stifle joint, no other exterior damage in the stifle ligaments, just some muscle scar tissue in her flank area per the massage person. So vet injected stem cells and PRPs into the joint. Over the next 4 months she improved to where she weighted that leg evenly in a hard trot with no lamenes, picked up the toe same as the other leg when backing, and lengthened her stride to over-striding by a half rather than under-striding the same. Just my layman's observation, but she is a totally different horse now, different rounder frame and the accessory issues from years of twisting have also slowly resolved. No other thing was done, so I definately think the PRPs provided a medium for the stem cells to repair the cartiledge from the injury. This was 3 or so years ago, and she has stayed sound.
    Comprehensive Equestrian Site Planning and Facility Design
    www.lynnlongplanninganddesign.com


    1 members found this post helpful.

Similar Threads

  1. stem cell
    By Fharoah in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Nov. 20, 2011, 01:04 AM
  2. Stem Cell therapy/Vet-Stem- has anyone tried it?
    By allintexas in forum The Menagerie
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Oct. 17, 2011, 02:32 PM
  3. Replies: 17
    Last Post: Oct. 9, 2010, 02:09 PM
  4. Stem cell therapy for horses?
    By tkhawk in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Sep. 2, 2009, 11:48 AM
  5. Stem Cell Therapy/Treatment
    By TKR in forum Around The Farm
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: Jul. 31, 2009, 08:40 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
randomness