[Fharoah]

Well I hope the saddle change makes the difference.

I guess if I was frustrated and I really thought something might be bothering I may spring for a bone scan (if all other thoughts had been explored) but I would really work the horse before that scan in hopes in anything to be seen will be seen.

Good luck with your horse eq trainer!

[KentuckyTBs]

So IME if I go after a horse who does not understand the question, I will get tossed... If I go after one in pain, I will get tossed.. If they are just being a twit, they join the world.

He may understand the question and simply be saying "nope, no one makes me do it so I'm not going to" - If he isn't obviously sore, and someone is willing to push that issue just to see what his response is, it may be worth a shot. My TB was a rearer and she would get to the point where she would freeze and balk. If you pushed her forward, she would rear. You had to turn her hard to one side or the other (either turn on the forehand or haunches) to get her legs and brain thinking something other than "rear" to get her moving and she would go forward.

It's a really interesting case, I'd say a nuclear scan may be the way to go if you rule everything out and don't find anything else.

[orenda]

Are you sure he isn't just being a pain in the butt? Has anyone actually gotten after him to turn and go forward? Now that you say he will turn and go forward, then veer back the other way, and that when he is thinking and going forward, he goes well.... yes, it could be kissing spine... but if no one has ever picked the fight to just see if he is just being stubborn, it may be something to do. He may have figured out that he gets out of work (or working hard) if he is stubborn about it.

Just another thing to add to the list of things to think about! LOL

Ohhhh I have the picked the fight(s)...lord knows have I gotten after him...those rides where I really did not know how it was going to end. But I incredibly always ended on a good note...I don't know...what with the cart driving last year and how he is U/S, I have just always wondered if it had something to do with a rider...I cannot pick a fight with him if he is in some sort of discomfort. But one thing I do NOT want him to do is back up, which he is apt to do with scolding in this locked position.

I just adore this horse. So I feel frustrated but hopeful, hopeful to find out what makes him feel comfortable and confident.

[orenda]

and someone is willing to push that issue just to see what his response is,

It's a really interesting case, I'd say a nuclear scan may be the way to go if you rule everything out and don't find anything else.

I had been doing that and fortunately the response never ended in rearing or me on the ground or....

basically, if I don't let him go left, and he cannot turn right (I mean that jaw is LOCKED) the only way he can go is UP and I do not want a rearing horse or a balking horse...give me a bucker any day! LOL

It felt like it was headed toward rearing; this concerned me.

[orenda]

A big part of me realizes that the lunge line IS a security blanket for him. He just *wubs* his Auntie EqT We will slowly and methodically work through this....NOW lol I know...I want to know if something is physically wrong with him NOW...but it doesn't work that way One thing I have learned from this colt is a LOT of PATIENCE It's killing me, how I wish he could talk and tell me what was wrong!?

[LMH]

EqT I may have missed this but is the horse high on his RF? Even slightly?

[EqTrainer]

He may understand the question and simply be saying "nope, no one makes me do it so I'm not going to" - If he isn't obviously sore, and someone is willing to push that issue just to see what his response is, it may be worth a shot. My TB was a rearer and she would get to the point where she would freeze and balk. If you pushed her forward, she would rear. You had to turn her hard to one side or the other (either turn on the forehand or haunches) to get her legs and brain thinking something other than "rear" to get her moving and she would go forward.

It's a really interesting case, I'd say a nuclear scan may be the way to go if you rule everything out and don't find anything else.

If I come to the place that I believe he is simply being a shit, I will get after him. In fact, I do... But not in a CTJ way because he does not feel naughty. He feels stuck. I insist he do what I want but I am careful to work around it because my point was.. If he hurts and I go after him, this horse WILL toss me. And I DO NOT want him to learn he can throw me. He is the kind of horse who will find that to be a fine sport... Otherwise, I do not think he will because he has the training in place and will respod correctly to it. The feeling is not that he wont. Its that he cant.

[EqTrainer]

EqT I may have missed this but is the horse high on his RF? Even slightly?

Nope, not even kind of. Symmetrical back, too.

[EqTrainer]

Anyone... Who is the poster whose horse ended up having wither damage and it manifested something like this, anyone remember?

[orenda]

The feeling is not that he wont. Its that he cant.

yesssss true that

[EqTrainer]

Something that is funny about this, is that I am really good at riding sticky horses who wont go forward because they are either so crooked they cant, or they truly believe they cannot do it, due to past injuries or previous bad riding. It usually does not take me long to convince them it is better/easier/nicer to do what I want. This horse feels like there is a black hole of non-communication when this happens. Before he was diagnosed with Lyme, he refused to step off from a halt to the right if he had to move the right front first. I worked on it until he could do it. Sometimes he would have a mini meltdown over this one small thing

I understand that horses are all individuals but I am looking back over his history, looking back over the things we have had to focus on to make progress and I am thinking hmmmm.. Really? Why has this been so hard? I have had hard, tough horses. This is different. And I think maybe we lost sight of the forest for the trees, and have trained this horse so far in spite of whatever it is, by being patient with the tiniest details.

Anyway. We will carry on!

[Fharoah]

It's interesting to me because this is basically what happened with my mare. She sometimes didn't want to take a right lead canter, especially landing over a jump (makes sense if she would have been landing on her right front, which is the affected hoof. She's still on hand walking but is doing much better since she got her new shoes. And the vet's calling it laminitis...

Have you had your vet observe this horse being ridden?

[Petstorejunkie]

While you are waiting on a farrier:
See if your old macs will fit him. If so, buy some wedge pads and put them in the boots. Put the boots on and see how he turns.

My thought is you're dealing with a dominant horse who's an overly sensitive weenie when it comes to discomfort. If his heels are too low, that would put pain right under the tree points, which could present the issue. Try weighting your outside seatbone when turning right in the boots as part of the test.
The back locking, the turning, and the hooves are all interconnected IMHO.
And while there's no way to type this and have it sound right, he needs to learn to work through some discomfort, and that when the going gets tough, the rider isn't going to hop off and get distracted by his reaction. There's a fine balance between listening to a horse, and training them to be weenies. I use the personal trainer psychology of "just two more"
Two more of most anything won't worsen a legit injury, but it will help prevent weenie syndrome.

[EqTrainer]

While you are waiting on a farrier:
See if your old macs will fit him. If so, buy some wedge pads and put them in the boots. Put the boots on and see how he turns.

My thought is you're dealing with a dominant horse who's an overly sensitive weenie when it comes to discomfort. If his heels are too low, that would put pain right under the tree points, which could present the issue. Try weighting your outside seatbone when turning right in the boots as part of the test.
The back locking, the turning, and the hooves are all interconnected IMHO.
And while there's no way to type this and have it sound right, he needs to learn to work through some discomfort, and that when the going gets tough, the rider isn't going to hop off and get distracted by his reaction. There's a fine balance between listening to a horse, and training them to be weenies. I use the personal trainer psychology of "just two more"
Two more of most anything won't worsen a legit injury, but it will help prevent weenie syndrome.

Could be and could be that my saddle does not exacerbate the issue and hers does. It is worth a try, although I would think it would take more than few minutes to resolve.

I agree he has to learn to work thru as instructed or he will never become an athlete. But he does indeed do that otherwise. He will work like a dog on the longe and has previously undersaddle. I dont think he has a great inherent work ethic but I do think he has a rudimentary one. This issue is really different than "honey, you need to go on and discover that the other side feels really good!" its not I wont. Its I cant.

You should come pop on him, it is interesting.

[EqTrainer]

I guess I should add that while I am patient, I am not tolerant, know what I mean?!!

[LMH]

There is also a pressure point that indiciates hoof pain...it runs with the girth on each the right and left side..if you run a finger and he flinches (appearing as 'girthy' it indicates hoof pain).

You can do right and left side and compare.

[EqTrainer]

There is also a pressure point that indiciates hoof pain...it runs with the girth on each the right and left side..if you run a finger and he flinches (appearing as 'girthy' it indicates hoof pain).

You can do right and left side and compare.

He is negative on it. Nothing about his body indicates hoof pain. Which does not mean that is not the root of the problem, but it sure puts it in the non-emergent category. It will be interesting after he is shod, because if he does have pain it is not of an exterior nature, so I would assume will not instantly resolve... Meaning.. We may never know if that was indeed it. Horses.

[rabicon]

Well my guy was just diagnosed with a 2 degree rotation in his coffin bone. Come as a complete shock because we have been riding and he has been amazing. Vet and farrier saw him under saddle w/t/c, he moved out well and they saw nothing. We xrayed his feet because every once in a while, not every ride, and usually only once his right knee would buckle when riding. Not bad but you could feel it. He just keeps in trucking and was great. Did the xray because vet thought that something in his hoof maybe was causing a bolt of pain once in a while which he would react with his knee buckling. Well it was his right hoof that he rotated in and everyone was really shocked. Luckily we got it early so we can correct it. So i wouldn't discount the feet just because he may not show you completely that they are sore.

[orenda]

no way are we discounting the feet! I am hoping it is just his flat feet! His PA is 1% !!!!! His sole is 5 mm and he is only 6 yo !!!!! These 2 things freak me out! lol

[orenda]

also....he never poops U/S...if he would just poop...I think he'd feel better. tension methinks

He is a case study and whatever comes of this, I am publishing!