[orenda]

I guess I should add that while I am patient, I am not tolerant, know what I mean?!!

He is not allowed to be naughty! If he acts like an ass, he gets treated like one!

[Petstorejunkie]

You should come pop on him, it is interesting.

I'd love to (when it's not raining)
Maybe lets plan something the week after thanksgiving. His whole scenario just fascinates me.
I can bring my passier if you want to play with more saddles. It has magical powers.

[LarissaL]

Anyone... Who is the poster whose horse ended up having wither damage and it manifested something like this, anyone remember?

I think you are looking for Buck22? I believe there was a long history with her horse that finally resulted in a diagnosis of broken withers. There were a few posts about it but this is the latest I saw

http://chronofhorse.com/forum/showth...rs#post6272251

[salymandar]

also....he never poops U/S...if he would just poop...I think he'd feel better. tension methinks

He is a case study and whatever comes of this, I am publishing!

I hear you on the case study! I have one of those myself!

Have you tried a probiotic, or something along those lines? My gelding would get so miserable when he had to go. I have tried Succeed, Smart Digest Ultra, and a basic probiotic. I've had the best success on the Smart Digest Ultra.

[orenda]

I think you are looking for Buck22? I believe there was a long history with her horse that finally resulted in a diagnosis of broken withers. There were a few posts about it but this is the latest I saw

http://chronofhorse.com/forum/showth...rs#post6272251

wow....thanks LarissaL! That is pretty dramatic. I saw my colt fall to the ground before. It upset me.

True that he could have had something that was further damaged upon hitting the ground like that, or in horse play, or in...???????

A huge part of me just wants to go ahead and get him scanned vs riding through (no pun intended) all the experiments.

[Serigraph]

I had a simular problem ...but horse would not turn left at the canter. We did an ultrasound on his hind fetlocks which showed tearing.

To add to this and so many places where something could hurt - one of my horses (the blonde (EqT)) would be difficult to turn left. Not to the same degree as the OP's but still some similarities. He had such subtle lameness it was hard to detect to the eye but the vet's lameness locator picked up RH (distal cannon to hoof area). Xrays were clean so for now treating as soft tissue for 30 then re-evaluate with u/s.

He would also appear sound on the lunge and most times sound u/s but sticky turning left. Several weeks ago just stopped turning u/s. I will also say that he at times would hop a little on the lunge so there may have been more signs than the OPs but still might be something to look into.

[KentuckyTBs]

The feeling is not that he wont. Its that he cant.

Ahhhhh, understood! Personally, I'd look into get a bone/nuclear scan... it may be worth the money to find out exactly what is wrong rather than continuing to spend money on other diagnostics that aren't as specific. I hope you get it all figured out soon!!

[EqTrainer]

Ahhhhh, understood! Personally, I'd look into get a bone/nuclear scan... it may be worth the money to find out exactly what is wrong rather than continuing to spend money on other diagnostics that aren't as specific. I hope you get it all figured out soon!!

The concern is, since he only does it undersaddle, that if it is weight bearing it wont show up on a scan so we are trying hard to sort as much of it as possible first.

[LMH]

Does it do it undersaddle on the longe or only with a rider...even better can you make a chart?

In a round pen-no saddle, saddle 1, saddle 2, bareback pad
On the longe-no saddle, saddle 1, saddle 2, bareback pad
With a rider of x pounds, etc?

I would also try each of the 'events' with and without boots...

Does longing or riding with a bit vs a halter make a difference?

Do you have a super duper crazy insane wide saddle you can try with lots of fluffy sheepskin pads under? That would be interesting as well.

[Fharoah]

A bone scan will light up hot spots. You need to really work them the week prior to the scan to try and light up those hot spots. It may be worth a try.

[buck22]

Yes, I am the owner of broke back pony New details have come to light in recent months that finally paint a complete picture. I will try my level best to make this very long story as short as reasonable.

Horse had a miserable past life, non horsey owners severely mishandled him. Horse is too smart for his own good and developed some incredibly devious evasion tactics... ultimately to save himself from pain but it made the clue trail hard to follow.

Horse has always been a balker, a true balker. And a rodeo quality bronc. EAsily agitated and pissed off. Settled down considerably after training, diet adjustment, ulcers, teeth, feet, but never really did like being ridden. Every once in a while a nice day, but most days both parties were happy when it was over.

I hunted hard for physical reasons, but all vets and chiro's declared him sound as a dollar.

He had dramatic responses to changes in saddles. At first I thought I was finding saddles that suited him better and developing my skills as a rookie fitter. But as time wore on, I realized that he merely responded to having a *different* saddle. Pain lessened as pressure was in a new spot. A few rides in and he'd slowly get balky and sour again, and the next change of saddle he'd be great. It became quite the defeating cycle, and the reason I owned over 60 saddles, and every therapeutic pad known to man. [goodness I am glad they are all gone, that was a LOT of cleaning to do].

Finally had my vet xray him and discovered the broken tips of his thoracic spines around the withers. I never did have him scanned, but I suspect there is more damage further back too. He eventually grew a crop of white mane hair where the damage is, but it was a full year after the findings.

I tried another 6 months to get him comfortable being ridden. Came close with a treeless saddle and suber pad and daily cavaletti work. Previcox makes him riding sound, but thats not fair in my book. So we took up driving, and after a rather rocky start where he had to come to the realization that he is no longer expected to work in pain, he took to driving like a duck to water and is happily ever after.

Until recently... he has trouble circling to the right at a trot on a small circle

There always was a slight inkling of this when I rode him, but goodness most days I was happy to have stayed on a small bobble at the trot fell under the radar.

I have caught glimpses of this at liberty too, no tack, but it was rare and he would longe sound 99.9999% of the time.

This spring he was finally steady enough in harness that I was preparing for some shows. We were working on our dressage when the bobble on a circle started coming up.

Had the vet out and darn horse was sound as sound could be. Later on it cropped up again, so had her out again and this time she was able to see it first hand. Early diagnosis of bicipital bursitis, aka tendonitis originating in the shoulder. It only bothers him at a trot on a small circle and very rarely in deep footing.

Since horse gets the winter completely off due to my work schedule, we plan to take up serious diagnostics in the spring.

Horse has a scar on his LF hoof, same shoulder that is bothering him. I now feel fairly confident that early in his life he got a foot caught in something and struggled badly. So badly he broke his withers and trashed his shoulder. All the clues point this way.

In all the years I've owned this horse, he's always been, and still is to this day, protective of his left side. For instance, if he's going to be sticky about picking up his feet today, the left one will be worse. If he's free longing, he takes more coaxing to dis his hips on the left than the right. If he's thinking about leaving you, he'll exit stage left usually. And if he comes up for a pat its almost exclusively on his right.

Feet are even. Massage turns up nothing. Chiro turns up less than nothing (chiros are continually amazed how even and supple and well adjusted he is). He's incredible gumby horse looks for all the world like a sound horse. He's a real enigma. Real frustrating enigma.

Hope my ramble is helpful to you in some way, and that you find something to spark an idea on what to look for.

What I will say, is that it never ceases to amaze me how obvious all the clues to his condition were, and what a dumbass I was and how long it took me to put it all together. I've had this horse near 6 years now and it took me this long to finally connect the dots.

Chances are the answer is laying right in front of you in plain sight. Fun isn't it?

[Fharoah]

have you tried a week or bute or previcoxx test to see if that makes a difference?

[EqTrainer]

For taking the time and energy to tell your story. It is a sad one; but the happy ending is that nothing bad will happen to your horse now.

This guy is lucky; his owner will pursue this until an answer is found. We will keep gathering info. Pharoah, a bute regimen is in the plans but not until the Gastroguard trial!

[EqTrainer]

Today we tried his old saddle on him on the longe. He was fine to the left, perhaps a bit more tense than I expected but it was cold and windy. Worked through that, stayed a little tighter than I would have liked but then...

I turned him to the right and the rodeo began! Bucking, cross cantering, switching leads, head tossing. After a correction he would try to stop and then explode again. I marched him over to my car, switched saddles and it was night and day.. Relaxed hapoy quiet horse, stretching and forward. He was good for his rider too, because of the explosion I did not turn them loose but she did do all the riding/work with me just holding the longe and following.

Saddle pad revealed pressure at the right shoulder.
Saddler will be coming out not necessarily to fit this saddle but more to identify what about it is causing this type of issue. We will continue gathering information. He did have some soreness prior to being worked in front of his right shoulder and in his right atlas, both of which we did some work on first. All duly noted.

[KentuckyTBs]

Sounds more and more like kissing spines or broken withers... the second saddle must have sat differently enough to not be painful for it to have been that dramatic of a difference!

[Petstorejunkie]

Data is always a good thing!
I hope the fitter can help. If you are using Mary, I have full confidence she can make him happy.

[EqTrainer]

I think the real question is, what *exactly* about this saddle is causing this? Because the saddle appears to fit well. David will see it and he will watch the horse move and what the saddle does, etc. but I am not optimistic that this saddle will ever get ridden again on this horse. My gut hunch is that it exacerbates or aggravates something and that is what we need him to help with...

It is a violent reaction for a simple saddle fit issue, but hey! We can hope!

[rabicon]

Some horses just can't take any pain. My saddle didn't fit my new guy. He got very back sore, he started tripping to his knees sometimes but never ever tried anything bad. New saddle and he is much better. But my friends horse is so sensitive, her saddle didn't fit right and he would throw bucking fits. New saddle he has done much better but in the same boat really because there is still something nqr and they are in pursuit of what is wrong with him, but im wondering if his is kissing spine also.

[LMH]

I

It is a violent reaction for a simple saddle fit issue, but hey! We can hope!

You need to get to a saddle fit clinic with Carol Brett.

It would BLOW you mind.

[EqTrainer]

If that is the super wide english saddle fitting lady, been there done that in the 90s. Fit all my saddles that way. If it is not, tell me more about this person and their method