[Beethoven]

Yes, he has been seen by a chiro. It was actually my first thought - ribs out. Seemed so logical. But they werent our vet is also, incidentally, a chiro, and found nothing in the area.

O darn! I figured you had already checked him for a rib out. That would of been a too easy of a fix.

What if he is just weird and the saddle that doesn't fit him by "our" standards is what he prefers?

My TB saddle doesn't fit him perfectly by most saddler fitter standards, but he isn't sore at all and very happy when he works. Granted he has sharkfin withers and wide shoulder, so nothing will probably ever fit him perfectly.

[Catersun]

EqT, this thread is making me curious... am I getting this right? he came up lame on the right hind and the right shoulder is the problem undersaddle? makes me wish I was liscensed in NC, i'd love to put my hands on this critter and see what I feel.

If it's not a nerve bundle that the saddle is hitting, I wonder if it's some trigger points or myofascial hotspot that is maybe a longterm compensation to what ever is going on in the back end/hind that you have been suspcious about.

[LMH]

Yes-the 'nerve bundle' is one of the huge reasons for the Balance saddle design.

That is why you never ever just place a thin pad under a saddle-why you always have a saddle wide enough that you can fit the pad with the front 'shim' under it-so that nerve bundle always has a soft interface.



That is also why most ridden horses will have a 'hollow' in that area and no one says anything-it is so common it is considered normal.

Why a 'traditional' fitting saddle, that bundle has pressure, the nerves won't fire and the area just 'dies out' (not literally but doesn't develop).

On most horses, it just numbs and life goes on-but then you will find a horse now and then that is reluctant to bend, etc etc

It can take up to 6 months for the area to cool out-this means 6 months of NO saddles....Carol has a remedial program for this sort of damage.

On a sidenote, the sharkfin withers is another symptom-another body design considered normal but is actually a response to incorrect pressure on the body, usually from a traditionally fitted saddle.

I have said it before-

Even if you decide you don't believe in the Balance saddling principles, seeing a 2 day clinic with Carol is one of THE most educational clinics you will ever attend. You will never quite see saddles through the same lens.

EqT I actually hope it ends up being that 'simple'

[Beethoven]

On a sidenote, the sharkfin withers is another symptom-another body design considered normal but is actually a response to incorrect pressure on the body, usually from a traditionally fitted saddle.

Ugg, I know but by the time I figured that out he was older and I think the damage was already done. He is semi retired now that I am in vet school in the caribbean, so I am interested to see what happens to that area.

[JB]

Shark fin withers are not always a symptom of anything other than genetics

But, if by "shark fin" you mean prominent withers because there's no muscle padding beside them, then I agree. However, shark fin withers as a component of conformation is real as well

[KentuckyTBs]

However, shark fin withers as a component of conformation is real as well

Exactly. Otherwise, how do people try explaining yearling TBs with shark fin withers that haven't even been backed yet? LOL Lack of muscle around withers is one thing but actual high withers is another.

[EqTrainer]

EqT, this thread is making me curious... am I getting this right? he came up lame on the right hind and the right shoulder is the problem undersaddle? makes me wish I was liscensed in NC, i'd love to put my hands on this critter and see what I feel.

If it's not a nerve bundle that the saddle is hitting, I wonder if it's some trigger points or myofascial hotspot that is maybe a longterm compensation to what ever is going on in the back end/hind that you have been suspcious about.

Yes. Feel free to FB me

[EqTrainer]

So today Orenda popped on him bareback, after a brief ride at the walk in which he was still resistant to the right (albeit not so bad). That was a HELL TO THE NO reaction!

We have decided to pursue diagnosing the shoulder problem and will update on how that pans out.

[Petstorejunkie]

So, if I understand correctly, he wouldn't turn right while bareback either?

[EqTrainer]

Correct, in fact, he was very pissed off. Bareback = constant even pressure. No real surprise he did not care for that.

[orenda]

If it's not a nerve bundle that the saddle is hitting, I wonder if it's some trigger points or myofascial hotspot that is maybe a longterm compensation to what ever is going on in the back end/hind that you have been suspcious about.

you got it! You got the big ?

We want to know why he has been reluctant to move forward since he was 3-ish.

and when I got on him bareback the other day, his eyes got real big...he was like....oh NOOOO what is going on?????? He was NOT happy. We put my Albion on him, walked him around, he did not want to turn right again U/S. But he did better. But...there was a deliberate NO Then took the saddle off to experiment with bareback...oh noooooo...he feared that!

[LMH]

http://www.balanceinternational.com/...es/6571507.pdf

A small explanation of why bareback can be making things worse...when you have irritation (whether injury or poor saddle fit), bareback provides zero support to an already weak back.

Just another possible piece of the puzzle.

[EqTrainer]

It makes perfect sense to me, that bareback would make it worse. Waiting to hear from the vet as to who/where he needs to go to have a really good look at "it".

[Catersun]

sorry I haven't checked back on this thread til now, i've been sleeping at night

LMH or JB, can you point me in the direction of some documentation that shows what nerves are affected by saddle placement in some horses? and how the cutout changes the comfort for the horse or are they suggesting it's just muscle damage not nessisarily directly nerve related? I've read though a good bit on the balance site and can't find anything that is specific about the physiological cause of the pain. I'm not an idiot when it comes to saddle fit either, but I don't see them saying anything that a good traditonal saddler doesn't say about it's better to be wide and pad up than to be too narrow.

Eqtrainer- If he is sensivtive moving to the right he would have to load the L fore to do so... me thinks ya need to look at the left side shoulder which would account for the RHind compensation.

[EqTrainer]

We will check both but he palpates sore on the right shoulder.

[Catersun]

DOH, my reply poofed.

IF the left side has been adapted to as NORMAL, than then he wouldn't test painful on it because he can't feel the pain over the right side. I pmed orenda a big long reply and some of what to look for in the tissue.

my curiosity is further piqued, reading up on equine djd and other worse case scenrio stuff, i think there may be some bodywork applications that may help or that I'd be curious to see if their application benefited or not.

orenda, i'll do the work if you write the paper

[EqTrainer]

I like the sound of that!

[Catersun]

for anyone who wants to get a taste of what I'm talking about, place your hand on your bare skin just over your collarbone, with your hand firmly sticking to your skin let yoru hand slide down your chest and move the skin with it until it stops, should only be an inch or two depending your body. Then slowly and gently roll your head back and look up at the ceiling. as far as you can comfortably go, you will feel lots of pulling and stretching sensation, you can roll your head in either direction now and experiment with where you feel the pull. Come back to center and slowly release your hand, now look up at the ceiling and roll your head around and notice the difference in range of motion. when the hand is pulled down that simulates how bunched up fascia and connective tissue can distort movement and range of motion and if pushed too far cause pain. that is the cliff notes version, there is a whole lot more to it but it should give you an idea.

[orenda]

sorry I haven't checked back on this thread til now, i've been sleeping at night

whhaaaaaaa ???????

[orenda]

We will check both but he palpates sore on the right shoulder.

I palpate sore on my left shoulder but when Pam works on my right shoulder, she finds alot of ouchy stuff I did not know existed. Yet the pain I feel is on the left side.