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  1. #41
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    Specifically talking about being in a food stamp program, I think that if you're talking about 30 to 60 days it's a lot different than being in the program chronically.

    It's not that easy to rehome a horse if you don't have good connections or if the horse is older. I'm not even talking about selling, I'm talking about giving the horse away to a reasonable home. I personally have been able to find homes for horses within days or a few weeks, but I have a lot of resources at my disposal. For someone who has just experienced a job loss and needs some assistance short term, I don't think that their time/energy is best spent trying to rehome a horse--and it CAN take quite a bit of time and energy as many of you know!

    Around here at least, rescues are full and most are TB rescues anyway. They're going to the track(s) for horses, not taking personal surrenders.

    So...I guess I'm in the "it depends" category.

    I honestly have a bigger problem with people having more kids when on assistance than I do with someone trying to keep their old horse that they had BEFORE they needed help.

    But if it looks to be a long term issue, I agree. The horse is a luxury.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


    6 members found this post helpful.

  2. #42
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    Mar. 25, 2011
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    It doesn't bother me at all. I can easily see someone going along doing fairly well, running into unexpected hardship like a lay off and needing food assistance. Do you dump all your pets then? Including your dogs and cats? Why just the horses? And then when you get back on your feet do you go get your horses back? In reality I don't think things work that way at all. So I'm all for it. Horses don't mean you're rich, or even flush. You can get into trouble too, just like anybody else.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


    6 members found this post helpful.

  3. #43
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    Jan. 11, 2007
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    Central VA
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    What burns me is the people on food stamps/welfare that have iphones. I mean, really? An iphone is not a necessity for anyone, I don't care who you are. You do not need one in order to live, and it is not a living thing that would need to be re-homed. One of my best friends is in social work and says almost every person she interviews in the hood who is on welfare has an iphone. SHE can't even afford an iphone!


    7 members found this post helpful.

  4. #44
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    Jan. 10, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calamber View Post
    Time to grow up S&S. If you are taking government assistance, unless your horse is putting funds into the program, no, you have no right. Do you consider your horse as important as someone else feeding a child? If we had a true jobs creation program, not a make work program but real productive jobs, we would not be having a rather lopsided discussion about this. People cheating, forcing people to take contraceptives to prevent child birth while on food stamps but being able to have horses? It is very hard to look at this from a simplistic standpoint but morally, really, because you gave your horse a promise?
    The "grow up" is unnecessary. I am simply saying that it's not always black and white. I don't consider my horse in the same light as an expensive luxury item that I can easily dispose of; I consider him in the same category as my pets, whose welfare I've committed myself to. The extras--expensive board, showing, training, trailers, supplements, tack--those I can dispense with. But if I went on food stamps for a month when things got dire, should I immediately send my horse to slaughter when I might be able to pick myself up again in a month or two? I don't begrudge my money going to help a living being who finds themselves in a tough situation, either human or animal.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  5. #45
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    Jun. 7, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieBlaueReiterin View Post
    flat out, no. laws must have changed bc when i was a kid my mom got a lot of shit for owning a car and trying to get welfare/food stamps to feed us. owning a horse and drawing government benefits of any kind? sorry, no. sell the horse before you take my money.
    I owned two horses all the time through which I was drawing unemployment. I still have them. The unemployment checks, plus my savings, got me through until I found a job again.

    This is why unemployment benefits "trickle down" immediately into the economy far faster than giving millionaires tax breaks. The money gets spent immediately: on groceries, on BO's who are providing board, on people still having phones, on small businesses that are providing basic necessities like deoderant at the corner store.

    If it makes all the people who are gearing up to be horrified feel any better, in the year prior to my 8 months of unemployment, I paid $80,000 in taxes.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calamber View Post
    Time to grow up S&S. If you are taking government assistance, unless your horse is putting funds into the program, no, you have no right. Do you consider your horse as important as someone else feeding a child? If we had a true jobs creation program, not a make work program but real productive jobs, we would not be having a rather lopsided discussion about this. People cheating, forcing people to take contraceptives to prevent child birth while on food stamps but being able to have horses? It is very hard to look at this from a simplistic standpoint but morally, really, because you gave your horse a promise?
    Of course the horse is a job creation program.
    When I was on unemployment, my horses still needed to be boarded, still needed to see the vet, still needed to get their feet done. 8 months of unemployment allowed our little micro-economy to keep going long enough for me to get a job again. Who benefitted? The real life people who provide the farrier services, who provided the boarding, and who did spring shots and floated teeth.

    If the goal is to make every person stay shut-in in their cardboard box with no phone until they are entirely gov't assistance free, what is everyone going to do who sells goods and services to those people? So you think they shouldn't have iPhones: what about the people whose jobs are created BECAUSE so many people have iPhones? Government assistance at this level goes IMMEDIATELY back into the surrounding economy. It is the ULTIMATE "trickle down." The money goes straight from the person who receives it to whoever else is trying to eke out a living by running a diner/a local movie theater/a convenience store/a cell phone store.


    For some reason it seems to be ok when millionaires get tax cuts and lower capital gains rates so they can "invest" and buy yachts and "trickle their wealth down", but not when poor people or temporarily unemployed people get a little help so that they can turn around and respend 100% of that money directly into the economy.

    It is not like people are taking 25% of their unemployment checks and squirreling it away for their kid's trust fund.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
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    Feb. 16, 2010
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    Jacksonville, FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillnDale View Post
    People confuse this all the time. EBT cards are used for more than one form of assistance. If a recipient is only receiving Food Stamps (now called SNAP) then all they can buy is food. If they are receiving welfare then it is more like cash. You could withdraw cash for example.

    ...

    Food benefits are completely different as it's not a cash benefit and is beloved by various industries from farmers to grocery stores. It is administered by the Dept of Agriculture and it's as much another agricultural subsidy as it is food assistance. Resource limits are very high with the idea being that helping someone not fall through the floor completely saves everyone money in the long run. When blowing through my interviews I would rattle "Do you own any oil wells in Texas or horse ranches in Kentucky?" Because that's too much real estate. But the average job-loser is not required to foreclose on their home before getting food. For most people, unemployment benefits will put them over income for food assistance. All policy is public and available online.

    ....
    There are people like my brother who is on Food Stamps. By brother has no excuse for being on Food Stamps. My parents footed the bill for him to go to college. He repeatedly flunked classes. He smokes pot. He feels entitled to a $50,000 a year job right out of college. He got fired from a job he had for being late to work repeatedly.

    I have no idea how he is paying his bills. I assume he's on welfare. I don't know because he won't answer my phone calls and he lives in Portland, Oregon.

    He's completely capable of getting a job, he just doesn't want one he believes is beneath him and/or he's lazy. When I went to visit him I got him a job interview at a local retail store. He ended up getting a call back interview and never went.

    I feel bad for him and want to help so I've tried hiring him. I could use the help and I was wiling to pay him $10.00 hour for work he could do from home on his computer. He never finished my first assignment I gave him. The two hours of work he did do he didn't even send me an invoice for so I could pay him.

    There are lots of people who are like this that are on welfare. I've met many, have one in the family and have several who have worked for me. I have had two former subcontractors go on Food Stamps. These employees were so lazy. In an eight hour day I would be lucky to get three hours of work for them. I trained them and paid them for training. I was trying to teach them a valuable skill (html/css coding) and employ them full time. If they could have become reliable employee I would have grown my business and found more and more work for them and continued to hire new employees. They just, pure and simply put, not interested in being responsible for themselves. I got sick of it after a while and decided to go back to a one woman shop.

    Not everyone on welfare is like this of course but there is a huge amount of entitlement out there.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #48
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    Unemployment and food stamps are two different things. Being on unemployement does not mean one qualifies for food stamps. However, by the time you hit TANF, the horse should be gone. I can see hanging on to a horse while on unemployed for a few months. If you've been unemployed for an extended amount of time, i.e. 3 years, and money is tight enough that you still need government assistance, the horse should probably be for sale.

    The problem myself and others have is when those who paying working and paying taxes to support the less fortunate,don't have the luxuries they are provided. As a country we have a screwed up perspective of what are necessities and luxuries.

    Should those on assistance have a $6 landline for emergencies? Yes. Do they need a smart phone? Not so much. Does anyone need a flat screen TV or game system. No. Are they nice to have? Sure. Does Section 8 help a lot of worthy people? Yep. Should Section 8 be subsidizing rent in a $600,000 home? Not in my book, but it happens.

    The folks I know who are unemployed or on assistance, fit SHG's mold above, rather than meup's. I have a hard time feeling too bad for the family on the verge of losing their farm because the breadwinner lost their job, they've filled their boarding barn with their own (15!) horses and they could never sell any of them. That is a self inflicted gun shot wound.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  9. #49
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    Oct. 20, 2008
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    Florida, USA
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    To address the point of people that are concerned of the "what if's"... what if someone looses their job and has no other source of income, what if it's someone who goes from a 2 income household down to 1...

    I personally believe that EVERYONE should have their own emergency fund set up... should cover you for a few months (6 would be best).

    Guess since most aren't set up that way- let's say you could have food stamps for 3 months MAX... then the horses have to go!

    They ARE a luxury! I understand the concept of them being a pet/family and the emotional attachment. However, they truly ARE a luxury...

    Either way, not going to go on my separate RANT about it- but it drives ME CRAZY when people sit there: complain about the fact that they are completely broke, can barely dress their kids, afford X, Y or Z... but have a backyard FULL of horses... Pets are they?? That's funny- I would LOVE to have a dozen horses of my own... really, I would! Guess what- I CAN'T AFFORD IT!!!
    Proudly living in my "let's save the world bubble"!


    5 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
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    Mar. 25, 2011
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    I can't agree with this at all.

    1. Who has 6 months income stashed away? I don't know anyone like that. Maybe I'm running in the wrong circles. And worse, a frightening number of us are only a few paychecks away from living in our cars.

    2. I had an emergency fund, and then I had an emergency. Now what? Should I ditch my horse while I build back up my savings?

    3. Food stamps are meant to be temporary, to catch you while you're down. How do you quite do this; I'm temporarily in the hole so sell my horses. Hey, now I'm out of the hole can I have my horses back? How about cats and dogs -should they go too? I mean they're seriously even more useless than horses -can't ride 'em.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #51
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    Oct. 14, 2010
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    Paula,
    You just don't get it. If you can't afford a horse, you sell the horse. You don't ask taxpayers to fund your horse habit. If you find yourself in a position to afford a horse later, buy another one. It is that simple.

    Cats and dogs are more useless than many (not all) horses, but THEY COST A LOT LESS TO FEED AND MAINTAIN. How hard is that for you to grasp? For about $30/month I can feed 2 cats. Give me a towel and I can trim their nails for free. Bare bones board for a horse is $150. Add another $25 for hoof care (If you can do it yourself, great; most don't). That's a pretty big difference. That $145 difference will buy a significant amount of people food.

    I'm trying not to be snarky, but you're a bit dense.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  12. #52
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    Jun. 14, 2006
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    VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulaedwina View Post
    I can't agree with this at all.

    1. Who has 6 months income stashed away? I don't know anyone like that. Maybe I'm running in the wrong circles. And worse, a frightening number of us are only a few paychecks away from living in our cars.


    Paula
    Many cannot. I'll give you that. We did have plenty for 6 mos when my husband got laid off. But then he still couldn't find a job for awhile. Most people I know cannot put much away these days.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #53
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    Oct. 15, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPF View Post
    What burns me is the people on food stamps/welfare that have iphones. I mean, really? An iphone is not a necessity for anyone, I don't care who you are. You do not need one in order to live, and it is not a living thing that would need to be re-homed. One of my best friends is in social work and says almost every person she interviews in the hood who is on welfare has an iphone. SHE can't even afford an iphone!
    I can believe this. I'll never forget the time I was behind a woman in line at the grocery store and she had a cart full of groceries - and not just everyday food, we're talking fancy items like steaks and crab legs - with her nails done and fingers full of gold rings, and she whipped out her EBT card to pay.
    *Wendy* 4.17.73 - 12.20.05


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulaedwina View Post
    I can't agree with this at all.

    1. Who has 6 months income stashed away? I don't know anyone like that. Maybe I'm running in the wrong circles. And worse, a frightening number of us are only a few paychecks away from living in our cars.

    Paula
    Just because the people you associate with choose this lifestyle does not make it responsible. The vast majority of adults that I know have 6+ months stashed away OR have the ability to quickly liquid assets to make ends meet for 6 months.

    That doesn't mean they are traveling and staying at 4 star hotels during those 6 months but they can keep their head above water, pay bills, and take care of their animals and children while they find a new job.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  15. #55
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    Mar. 25, 2011
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    Redmares,

    I beg your pardon; I do get it, I just disagree with you.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #56
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    Feb. 28, 2006
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    The rocky part of KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulaedwina View Post
    I can't agree with this at all.
    I'd like to address the points in this post.

    1. Who has 6 months income stashed away? I don't know anyone like that. Maybe I'm running in the wrong circles. And worse, a frightening number of us are only a few paychecks away from living in our cars.


    DH and I have seven months' expenses stashed. It's part of Dave Ramsey's plan and it was how we were brought up. Even if you had the money to afford something you didn't just go out and buy it because it was the latest model, you wore out the old B/W tv and bought a cheap color tv. We gave up cable for a year and used the money to buy a nice Sony, which is now an antique at ten years old and not even remotely a flat screen. It's gotten pretty difficult to do some of that, live cheaply I mean. The computer I'll admit to dropping some change on but darn, planned obsolescence is a vicious fact in the electronic world, "communications" cost ten times what I paid for a bare basics landline but I would never have gotten internet at home or three cellphones and now they are a perceived necessity - we got our first when DH had to get in touch with a client out in the field and a cell phone was the only way to do that, then the convenience factor is so seductive and the plans are all carefully structured to get you to spend plenty, like for instance dropping the cable part of my bundle wouldn't save me diddly but "I can have all three for this amazing low price!" So I have to chuck all of it to lower my overhead.


    2. I had an emergency fund, and then I had an emergency. Now what? Should I ditch my horse while I build back up my savings?

    No. Theoretically you still have your job and can afford to have the horses and build back up the fund.

    3. Food stamps are meant to be temporary, to catch you while you're down. How do you quite do this; I'm temporarily in the hole so sell my horses. Hey, now I'm out of the hole can I have my horses back? How about cats and dogs -should they go too? I mean they're seriously even more useless than horses -can't ride 'em.

    If it came right down to it, the horses need to go. And the cats and dogs and other pets. How much sympathy would we have for someone with a collection of antique cars, all tagged and insured and sellable (well, maybe)? They need to go and then you get new ones once you are sure you are back on your feet. (Yes, I know that a horse is a living breathing creature that we have relationships with as well as ride, show, keep as pasture pets. It's not the same, but it sort of is)


    Paula
    I've never been on food stamps, even when we were broke and lived on fish and leftovers from work, we made too much to qualify. At the time I couldn't figure out why my friends living in rental housing (better conditions than we did) with scads of possessions being paid for with the minimum monthly payment and kids could qualify and live more nicely than we did. But they did.
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
    Incredible Invisible


    3 members found this post helpful.

  17. #57
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    Jan. 11, 2007
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    I have no problem with rich people getting a tax break and their resulting "trickle down" because they have actually paid (quite a bit more than any "break" they're getting) into the system. The vast majority of the iphone carrying welfare crowd has not paid squat into the system. All they've done is take. (sorry for the partial derailment, OP!)


    7 members found this post helpful.

  18. #58
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    Mar. 25, 2011
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    RE: I've never been on food stamps, even when we were broke and lived on fish and leftovers from work, we made too much to qualify. At the time I couldn't figure out why my friends living in rental housing (better conditions than we did) with scads of possessions being paid for with the minimum monthly payment and kids could qualify and live more nicely than we did. But they did.

    1.I've never been on food stamps and I cound myself lucky. People's fortunes change just like that so I am grateful that they exist and am happy for my taxes to go towards them.

    2. I wish more people did go onto food stamps when they were poor. They eat healthier when they're on EBT than when they're trying to cope with a very reduced food budget. From a public health point of view, understanding how poor health associates with a poor diet, I would prefer people to go onto food stamps than to say with some pride that they ate white bread and potatoes for 6 months until they got back on their feet.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


    2 members found this post helpful.

  19. #59
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    Oct. 16, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarahandSam View Post
    I would sell most of my possessions before I sold my horse, and I would go on food stamps in order to keep my horse if I had to. My horse is a pet to me, and I would somehow find a way to take care of my pets no matter what, because they're my responsibility.
    Ahh so using my money (tax $$$) to pay your food, so you can keep your horse is called "responsible"? Where do you think the money to pay for your food stamp come from? Dropping out of nowhere from Haven? They are from "MY" pocket, in the form of "MY" tax dollars. If you are a responsible person, you will feed yourself using your own money and feed your own horse using your own money.

    Welfare is meant to help people to get on their feet after an unexpected hardship. It is not meant to be abused to keep someone in the lifestyle they want.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  20. #60
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    I am happy to have my tax dollars help her keep her horses.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


    2 members found this post helpful.

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