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  1. #81
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    Feb. 16, 2010
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    Jacksonville, FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Did you seriously just try to favorably compare Florida's economy to New York's?

    I'm sorry, where was the housing bubble crash the worst?
    Which state has STILL not recovered?

    People can buy houses for pennies on the dollar because your entire state IMPLODED. If you were a separate country you would be Greece.
    Yes, I'd rather live in Florida's economy any day. Give me my city over New York, where I don't have to pay $2000/month for a 900 square foot apartment.

    Businesses will find a more business friendly place to call home if you tax them too much. I'm not fabricating my bank anecdote out of thin air.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  2. #82
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    Jun. 7, 2006
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    9,038

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    Quote Originally Posted by showhorsegallery View Post
    Yes, I'd rather live in Florida's economy any day. Give me my city over New York, where I don't have to pay $2000/month for a 900 square foot apartment.

    Businesses will find a more business friendly place to call home if you tax them too much. I'm not fabricating my bank anecdote out of thin air.
    Yeah I don't think I fabricated the housing crisis out of thin air either.

    Florida is not exactly a fiscal role model.

    I don't think Wall Street will be relocating to Miami Beach anytime soon.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #83
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    NorthEast
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    24,668

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    FWIW...NY doesn't pay a whole lot in the overall federal taxes.

    NY isn't even in the top ten contributors.

    As a resident of the state paying the second highest amount in federal taxes: No, I don't want to cover horse ownership for SNAP users. You lease your horse out if it's serviceable or you figure something else out if it's not before you take government help. The idea of that help is to help those who *need* is for basics...not so they can use income for basics on their horses instead. (and no, a horse is not the same as a dog or cat)

    (and both FL and NY have the same amount of residents using SNAP...and the amount is on the high side percentage-wise.)

    Otherwise...back to the regularly scheduled snark fest on politics and government. Just wanted to add my 2 cents. 1 cent which just went for more CT taxes.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte


    6 members found this post helpful.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Feb. 16, 2010
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
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    816

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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Yeah I don't think I fabricated the housing crisis out of thin air either.

    Florida is not exactly a fiscal role model.

    I don't think Wall Street will be relocating to Miami Beach anytime soon.
    We'll we can agree to disagree. If you're looking to buy a house you can get a better deal in Florida right now. Home ownership is out of reach for many in New York.

    You didn't fabricate the housing bubble bursting, no. And yes Florida was one of the worst hit. But a lot of that is people buying second homes in Florida and walking away from them.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  5. #85
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    Dec. 20, 2011
    Posts
    1,192

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    There's always going to be abusers and those who feel entitled to the programs. That will never change. Look past that point that these programs are real benefits to a lot of people: the elderly, veterans, disabled, unemployed, etc. Weigh the good with the bad; I'm positive the good vastly outweighs the bad.

    Everyone gets outraged by the free-loaders, but significant numbers of participants are temporary users. When you find yourself in that very dark hole and have no idea how you're going to survive/get out of it, that's a very scary situation. Should you give up your horse? Maybe, if you can see no other option. Should you be forced to give up your horse? No. There are ways of taking care of a horse without needing money (sweat-equivalent labor for one). It's also another good reason to build up a solid relationship with your vet -- he/she might be willing to work with you on treatment costs if an emergency occurred if you were very timely in paying off your bills in the past!

    What urks me even more than freeloaders are the plutocrats that believe they should have even more tax breaks and pay even less effective tax than the lowest tax brackets. Squeezing the middle class by increasing the income disparity towards the top via tax cuts has not significantly increased GDP one iota. One. Iota. The system will self regulate and the agencies will be able to squeeze out the abusers once you free up the money and the middle class to do what it does best -- grow the economy.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2008
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    MD
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    3,854

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    FWIW, I would not mind seeing someone who had responsibly managed their finances over the long term receive food stamps for for a short period of time - like 6 months or less - if they fell on hard times, lost their jobs, had a devastating emergency - etc., and still keep their horse in the least expensive manner possible. But, as in everything, there is always some room for personal judgement on who is a responsible person deserving temporary help or an irresponsible person who either can't/won't face reality and live within their means. And of course here are just the flat out deadbeats who've made a career out of gaming the system.

    In the end, none of our policy makers are brave enough to put themselves on the line by using personal judgement, so we have to have black and white rules. And when these issues become a matter of black and white, there will always be deserving people who fall through the cracks and deadbeats who game the system.

    As long as I'm doing as well as I am, I'd be willing to lend a helping hand financially to a friend in temporary need if I know they've always been responsible and am confident that they will continue to be so. But if their financial problems seem to drag out because they've become dependent on help or unable to face the reality that they can no longer afford their lifestyle, then I will not hesitate to cut them off.

    I don't think anyone minds paying taxes for the public good, including short term benefits for those hit hard in this economy. Its the rest of the gov't. waste on pet programs that are either in place to protect people from themselves or dole out corporate welfare to he with the biggest lobbying pockets that's really the issue.
    Lowly Farm Hand with Delusions of Barn Biddieom.
    Witherun Farm
    http://witherun-farm.blogspot.com/


    6 members found this post helpful.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Mar. 26, 2011
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    Pennsylvania
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    5,204

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    Redmares,

    This is one of my public health interests. Indeed; if more poor people did use food stamps there would be less poor health associated with poor food options. Poverty is a risk factor for obesity -did you know that?

    Here's an article addressing this in children.

    Food Insecurity Is Associated with Adverse Health Outcomes among
    Human Infants and Toddlers1,2
    http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/....full.pdf+html

    The same links are found in adults. So as I said; I wish more poor people made the decision to get EBT and eat better.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Jul. 20, 2010
    Location
    Texarkana, AR
    Posts
    1,700

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    FWIW, I seriously doubt that there are very many food stamp users that have horses. Those that do, probably don't show them or keep them up to COTH standards. I drive through a small rural community every day on my way to work. I'd venture to say that a significant number do receive food stamps or other assistance. There are also quite a few horses in this area and I'm sure that some of their owners receive public assistance. But most of the houses are on a few acres of land, the horses are kept there, many are staked out in yards and on the side of the road. I doubt if many of them ever see the whites of a vet's eye. If they get sick, they get DIY care and either get better or die. They mostly get DIY hoof care or none at all. So very little is actually spent on these horses.

    What y'all don't realize is that a significant number of food stamp/subsidized housing recipients are the working poor, mostly single mothers with children. There is a certain segment of our society that is pretty much incapable of doing anything over menial, minimum wage work. Despite what some of you "perfect" people have posted, it is next to impossible to take care of a family on minimum wage and these people still need food, clothing and shelter. This could be handled several ways, we could force companies to pay their workers a living wage and pay $20 apiece for our Big Macs or the government can subsidize these minimum wage jobs through things like food stamps and housing. So while y'all bitch and moan about people on public assistance, think about this, you are actually subsidizing those business owners, many of them small businesses, who pay their employees less than a living wage and provide no health care benefits.

    Of course there are people who scam the system, just like there are wealthy people who dodge paying their fair share of taxes with things like off shore accounts. But do you know the biggest perpetrators of medicaid and medicare fraud are health care providers? Not, the person receiving the benefit but the doctor, pharmacist and nursing home operator.

    Is there a need for reform? Absolutely. Personally, I think the current system has helped destroy families, particularly minority families, by not allowing benefits for married couples. I think there should be budgeting and nutrition classes for recipients. I think there should be mandatory family planning counseling with easy access to birth control, including sterilization. I think there should be job training for folks on disability that could work if they had job training. I think there should be a better system for mental health care, for making sure people had access to and were taking their meds and for some mentally ill people, mandantory residence is some sort of group home or residential facility. I think schools should stop the fiction that every student is equal and start sorting students out by ability and motivation. I think there should be vocational programs in schools that are treated as equally important as college track program. There are a lot of things that could be done but most of them trample on some peoples' "rights" or are not "politically correct".


    14 members found this post helpful.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Jan. 10, 2008
    Location
    Western NY
    Posts
    5,945

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevelyan96 View Post
    FWIW, I would not mind seeing someone who had responsibly managed their finances over the long term receive food stamps for for a short period of time - like 6 months or less - if they fell on hard times, lost their jobs, had a devastating emergency - etc., and still keep their horse in the least expensive manner possible. But, as in everything, there is always some room for personal judgement on who is a responsible person deserving temporary help or an irresponsible person who either can't/won't face reality and live within their means. And of course here are just the flat out deadbeats who've made a career out of gaming the system.

    In the end, none of our policy makers are brave enough to put themselves on the line by using personal judgement, so we have to have black and white rules. And when these issues become a matter of black and white, there will always be deserving people who fall through the cracks and deadbeats who game the system.

    As long as I'm doing as well as I am, I'd be willing to lend a helping hand financially to a friend in temporary need if I know they've always been responsible and am confident that they will continue to be so. But if their financial problems seem to drag out because they've become dependent on help or unable to face the reality that they can no longer afford their lifestyle, then I will not hesitate to cut them off.

    I don't think anyone minds paying taxes for the public good, including short term benefits for those hit hard in this economy. Its the rest of the gov't. waste on pet programs that are either in place to protect people from themselves or dole out corporate welfare to he with the biggest lobbying pockets that's really the issue.
    Exactly... I'm just trying to point out that things are not black and white in actuality. "If you can't afford food you can't afford a horse" is generally true, but I can understand someone putting an animal's welfare as a higher priority and using food stamps to try to sustain that. I know that if I were at the absolute most dire straits financially, I have enough friends with barns that I could find someplace to keep my horse for dirt cheap or possibly free, at least for a while. It may not be sustainable for a long-term period, but I wouldn't have a problem with someone trying to find a way to provide for their pets even when they needed government assistance to make that happen.

    In addition: I have paid enough in taxes, both federal and state, that I am pretty sure I could fund my own damn food stamps for the rest of my life. I tend to think of taxes as money I pay to ensure that there is a system to sustain me, from roads to education to a safety net if I need it, rather than money I pay for other people to leech off of.

    With that being my attitude, I don't waste energy being angry at the "leeches." Maybe the lady in line at the grocery store using EBT with the fancy manicure works at a nail salon. Maybe the kid with the smart phone doesn't have a computer or internet access at home, but needs it for school. Are these scenarios unlikely? Maybe. Are there people out there abusing government help? Sure. But I am more happy that I live in a society that provides help to those that need it than I am angry about people that abuse that help. I aim for Atticus Finch: don't judge anyone until you've walked in their shoes.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Mar. 26, 2011
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    5,204

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    Exactly. I try not to make assumptions about a person's life, especially not from a snapshot like standing behind him or her in line. And I am happy to have my taxes go to minimizing the upheaval in a family because of hardship, and by that I mean keep your puppy, keep your kitty, keep your horse.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2003
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,282

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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweiners View Post
    What y'all don't realize is that a significant number of food stamp/subsidized housing recipients are the working poor, mostly single mothers with children. There is a certain segment of our society that is pretty much incapable of doing anything over menial, minimum wage work. Despite what some of you "perfect" people have posted, it is next to impossible to take care of a family on minimum wage and these people still need food, clothing and shelter. This could be handled several ways, we could force companies to pay their workers a living wage and pay $20 apiece for our Big Macs or the government can subsidize these minimum wage jobs through things like food stamps and housing. So while y'all bitch and moan about people on public assistance, think about this, you are actually subsidizing those business owners, many of them small businesses, who pay their employees less than a living wage and provide no health care benefits.

    Of course there are people who scam the system, just like there are wealthy people who dodge paying their fair share of taxes with things like off shore accounts. But do you know the biggest perpetrators of medicaid and medicare fraud are health care providers? Not, the person receiving the benefit but the doctor, pharmacist and nursing home operator.

    Is there a need for reform? Absolutely. Personally, I think the current system has helped destroy families, particularly minority families, by not allowing benefits for married couples. I think there should be budgeting and nutrition classes for recipients. I think there should be mandatory family planning counseling with easy access to birth control, including sterilization. I think there should be job training for folks on disability that could work if they had job training. I think there should be a better system for mental health care, for making sure people had access to and were taking their meds and for some mentally ill people, mandantory residence is some sort of group home or residential facility. I think schools should stop the fiction that every student is equal and start sorting students out by ability and motivation. I think there should be vocational programs in schools that are treated as equally important as college track program. There are a lot of things that could be done but most of them trample on some peoples' "rights" or are not "politically correct".
    Well stated.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Jan. 27, 2002
    Posts
    4,961

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    Quote Originally Posted by SarahandSam View Post
    I would sell most of my possessions before I sold my horse, and I would go on food stamps in order to keep my horse if I had to. My horse is a pet to me, and I would somehow find a way to take care of my pets no matter what, because they're my responsibility.

    That being said, I wouldn't be accepting government assistance while boarding my horse at a fancy place, taking lessons, showing, etc. I'd move him to a basic pasture board situation, just do the basics to keep him healthy and happy, etc. I might consider a lease or something like that if necessary. You can find ways of keeping a horse for very cheap, even though it may be difficult. But I promised him I'd never sell him, and that's a commitment I made.
    and let's not forget that food stamps are supposed to be temoprary. something to help in hard times to get back on one's feet. forcing me to sell my horse during a rough time would be pretty harsh. i'd sell everything else first.



  13. #93
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2006
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    The rocky part of KY
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    WW, nicely said. I'd like to point out that some of the things mentioned, like a good votech program in high schools, were actually out there back in the '70's. DH graduated with a certificate in plastics and has never had trouble finding jobs in auto body or fiberglass work. Welding, auto mechanics, woodshop, often times set someone on a lifetime path. Nowadays the military is about it, and some people who could otherwise thrive performing the work aren't of the right mindset to accept that type of discipline and so fail.
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
    Incredible Invisible



  14. #94
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2000
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    10,638

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    My younger sister is on food stamps. The only child at home is in middle school and they have 4 dogs and 1 cat.

    Sissy hasn't worked since she was fired from a job with cause 2 years ago. She has a Smart phone. She has tried to get on disability but those efforts have been thwarted because Medical doctors haven't found she suffers from a disabling condition. Without tossing all the toys in her attic out here on a public board I'll leave it at she has gone through a small inheritance and mismanaged what $$ she had before that came to her 2 years ago. She is where she is by her own doing. Yes, we have tried an intervention and no she
    won't see a real therapist- she used an honest to goodness quack councelor. It will take an involuntary commitment to get her treated.



  15. #95
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    Jul. 31, 2007
    Posts
    15,573

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    Quote Originally Posted by dudleyc View Post
    I'm more offended by people on food stamps that decline birth control and are actively trying to conceive.
    Breaking all my rules about not sticking my thumbs in other people's business for this one.

    I'll spare you the rant, but it is a long one in agreement with you.

    Oh, and by the way, IIRC one has to have very, very few assets as well as a very small income in order to qualify for food stamps, no? How are these folks paying for horses or getting loans for horse trailers? I don't get it.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  16. #96
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 2008
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    317

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    Quote Originally Posted by showhorsegallery View Post
    There are people like my brother who is on Food Stamps. By brother has no excuse for being on Food Stamps. My parents footed the bill for him to go to college. He repeatedly flunked classes. He smokes pot. He feels entitled to a $50,000 a year job right out of college. He got fired from a job he had for being late to work repeatedly.

    I have no idea how he is paying his bills. I assume he's on welfare. I don't know because he won't answer my phone calls and he lives in Portland, Oregon.

    He's completely capable of getting a job, he just doesn't want one he believes is beneath him and/or he's lazy. When I went to visit him I got him a job interview at a local retail store. He ended up getting a call back interview and never went.

    I feel bad for him and want to help so I've tried hiring him. I could use the help and I was wiling to pay him $10.00 hour for work he could do from home on his computer. He never finished my first assignment I gave him. The two hours of work he did do he didn't even send me an invoice for so I could pay him.

    There are lots of people who are like this that are on welfare. I've met many, have one in the family and have several who have worked for me. I have had two former subcontractors go on Food Stamps. These employees were so lazy. In an eight hour day I would be lucky to get three hours of work for them. I trained them and paid them for training. I was trying to teach them a valuable skill (html/css coding) and employ them full time. If they could have become reliable employee I would have grown my business and found more and more work for them and continued to hire new employees. They just, pure and simply put, not interested in being responsible for themselves. I got sick of it after a while and decided to go back to a one woman shop.

    Not everyone on welfare is like this of course but there is a huge amount of entitlement out there.
    Your brother does not receive welfare.

    Wow, people really complain a lot about things they know nothing about.
    An auto-save saved my post.

    I might be a cylon


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 2008
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    Somewhere over the rainbow
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    317

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    Oh, and by the way, IIRC one has to have very, very few assets as well as a very small income in order to qualify for food stamps, no? How are these folks paying for horses or getting loans for horse trailers? I don't get it.
    Since I've already posted that information (direction from the Dep of Ag website) you don't actually have to recall it!
    An auto-save saved my post.

    I might be a cylon



  18. #98
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 2008
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    Somewhere over the rainbow
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    317

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    Quote Originally Posted by HillnDale View Post
    Your brother does not receive welfare.

    Wow, people really complain a lot about things they know nothing about.
    Thumbing this down doesn't make it less true. Please speak up and tell me what you disagree with.
    An auto-save saved my post.

    I might be a cylon



  19. #99
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    Feb. 16, 2010
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
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    816

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    Quote Originally Posted by HillnDale View Post
    Your brother does not receive welfare.

    Wow, people really complain a lot about things they know nothing about.
    I didn't say my brother receives welfare. I said he's on Food Stamps. I extrapolated from that. I'm speaking from a personal story that I know plenty about. You can't argue with me about something that is happening. My brother is capable of getting a job and buying his own food. He chooses not to. He's on Food Stamps. These are all facts.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Oct. 1, 2012
    Location
    Virginia
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    318

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    I haven't read everyone's posts, however I read enough to add my own opinion. Last year I had a friend that found out she and her husband were expecting and it was not planned. She didn't like her job so she decided to quit. Before quitting, she did not research her insurance that they recently purchased to find out that there was a pregnancy clause. She consulted with me about going on medicaid and other government assistance. I said no. I told her owning a 15 acre farm and 8 horses, 3 vehicles and 2 trailers made me unsympathetic to her cause and felt that she needed to go back to work (she was only 3 months pregnant) and that she needed to sell her horses first.


    4 members found this post helpful.

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