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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulaedwina View Post
    I am happy to have my tax dollars help her keep her horses.

    Paula
    Well, I am not. And you have no right to forcibly take from me to give to give to others. That's not charity. That's Government sponsored and facilitated theft.

    You know you're always welcome to pay more taxes. The IRS does accept donations if you are so inclined. Or you can cut out the middle man and just send a check directly to people you perceive as in need.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulaedwina View Post
    I am happy to have my tax dollars help her keep her horses.

    Paula
    You are more than welcome to use "your" money to help her keep her horses. I'm not willing to be "forced" to use "my" money to perform the same deed. I'd much rather my tax dollars to be used in the way that will have positive impact in the society, such as building the roads, improving the schools, raising teacher salary, as well as those that deserve my help and a whole slew of other things.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by showhorsegallery View Post
    Well, I am not. And you have no right to forcibly take from me to give to give to others. That's not charity. That's Government sponsored and facilitated theft.

    You know you're always welcome to pay more taxes. The IRS does accept donations if you are so inclined. Or you can cut out the middle man and just send a check directly to people you perceive as in need.
    Well, for the record, Florida is one of the many states that receives more federal tax dollars than they pay out.

    So basically the federal government is forcibly taking from me (a New Yorker) to provide federal funding to your state.

    You are of course welcome to pay more taxes. Perhaps your state should initiate a state income tax program so that you guys can pull your own weight. Then you won't need to be so dependent on handouts from the North.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiningwizard255 View Post
    I can believe this. I'll never forget the time I was behind a woman in line at the grocery store and she had a cart full of groceries - and not just everyday food, we're talking fancy items like steaks and crab legs - with her nails done and fingers full of gold rings, and she whipped out her EBT card to pay.
    Maybe she has foster kids and was using their cards. I know a lot of people who foster, they have to use food stamps to pay for some of the food.
    Luistano Stallion standing for 2013: Wolverine UVF
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IZPHDzgX3s


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria View Post
    You are more than welcome to use "your" money to help her keep her horses. I'm not willing to be "forced" to use "my" money to perform the same deed. I'd much rather my tax dollars to be used in the way that will have positive impact to the society, such as building the roads, improving the schools, raising teacher salary, as well as those that deserve my help and a whole slew of other things.
    For the record, Oklahoma ALSO a net RECEIVER of federal tax dollars.
    MY tax dollars are building your roads.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Well, for the record, Florida is one of the many states that receives more federal tax dollars than they pay out.

    So basically the federal government is forcibly taking from me (a New Yorker) to provide federal funding to your state.

    You are of course welcome to pay more taxes. Perhaps your state should initiate a state income tax program so that you guys can pull your own weight. Then you won't need to be so dependent on handouts from the North.
    You seriously can not compare the two situations. Besides my point is not negated in any way by your statement. I am not in charge how federal dollars are doled out. I am not the state of Florida. I live and vote here but I alone do not shape the policies of the state.

    And for the record, I pay a plenty of taxes. We have a sales tax here in Florida instead of a state income tax.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by showhorsegallery View Post
    Well, I am not. And you have no right to forcibly take from me to give to give to others. That's not charity. That's Government sponsored and facilitated theft.
    Exactly!


    4 members found this post helpful.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    For the record, Oklahoma ALSO a net RECEIVER of federal tax dollars.
    MY tax dollars are building your roads.
    Your tax dollars are used to build "interstates", which belong to Federal, not Oklahoma, and is essential for the development of the country as a whole. Your tax dollars are not being used to build my own driveway. If they were, this government gets a whole lot of more serious problems, because it is stupid and wrong on so many different levels.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulaedwina View Post
    RE: I've never been on food stamps, even when we were broke and lived on fish and leftovers from work, we made too much to qualify. At the time I couldn't figure out why my friends living in rental housing (better conditions than we did) with scads of possessions being paid for with the minimum monthly payment and kids could qualify and live more nicely than we did. But they did.

    1.I've never been on food stamps and I cound myself lucky. People's fortunes change just like that so I am grateful that they exist and am happy for my taxes to go towards them.

    2. I wish more people did go onto food stamps when they were poor. They eat healthier when they're on EBT than when they're trying to cope with a very reduced food budget. From a public health point of view, understanding how poor health associates with a poor diet, I would prefer people to go onto food stamps than to say with some pride that they ate white bread and potatoes for 6 months until they got back on their feet.Paula
    Do you have anything to back this up? I have seen little evidence presented anywhere that those on food stamps eat better than those who aren't. What I have seen is reports on what is considered "food" for the purpose of food stamps, and that many of the food stamp dollars redeemed are spent on junk food. I've also seen that there are few (grocery) stores in areas where there are high concentrations of food stamp recipients that stock fresh, healthy food. If there were, we wouldn't have to watch the First Lady do jumping jacks.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by showhorsegallery View Post
    You seriously can not compare the two situations. Besides my point is not negated in any way by your statement. I am not in charge how federal dollars are doled out. I am not the state of Florida. I live and vote here but I alone do not shape the policies of the state.

    And for the record, I pay a plenty of taxes. We have a sales tax here in Florida instead of a state income tax.
    Hey guess what? NY has sales tax too.
    Florida's sales tax rate is 6%.
    The sales tax in my county in NY is 8.75%. The great majority of counties in NY are 8% or over. Which those in my county pay ON TOP of their state income taxes (which you don't have) AND their federal taxes (which your state takes more of than it pays out).

    It's just funny that you are b*tching about federal programs when your state would have to seriously up YOUR PERSONAL TAX CONTRIBUTION to afford its lifestyle without help from everyone else.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Hey guess what? NY has sales tax too.
    Florida's sales tax rate is 6%.
    The sales tax in my county in NY is 8.75%. The great majority of counties in NY are 8% or over. Which those in my county pay ON TOP of their state income taxes (which you don't have) AND their federal taxes (which your state takes more of than it pays out).

    It's just funny that you are b*tching about federal programs when your state would have to seriously up YOUR PERSONAL TAX CONTRIBUTION to afford its lifestyle without help from everyone else.
    Why are you so angry? At least you sound very angry. Guess what? I think New York is over taxed too! I'm sorry that you have such high sales tax and such high income tax. But I don't live in your state. If you don't like your high taxes maybe you should move to a different state?

    I want taxes lowered for everyone and I want spending cut too.

    When taxes are lowered the tax revenues actually go up.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria View Post
    Your tax dollars are used to build "interstates", which belong to Federal, not Oklahoma, and is essential for the development of the country as a whole. Your tax dollars are not being used to build my own driveway. If they were, this government gets a whole lot of more serious problems, because it is stupid and wrong on so many different levels.
    Yes, but you quite like driving on your interstate that the other states pay for, don't you?

    Is there some reason I have to pay my share for all the NY interstates (plus the tolls for driving on them) AND ALSO a portion of yours????? Perhaps your state should up its contributions to "the country as a whole" to pull its own weight?


    4 members found this post helpful.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by red mares View Post
    If there were, we wouldn't have to watch the First Lady do jumping jacks.
    I rather like watching the first lady do jumping jacks.
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by showhorsegallery View Post
    If you can't afford to purchase your own food you have no business owning a pet let alone a horse. Why is it right to expect taxpayers to foot the bill for your food all the while owning such an expensive luxury? What about all the people that pay taxes and dream about owning a horse but it's outside of their financial reach? Why should part of their hard earned money be forcibly taken away and given to someone else to buy food when they somehow find a way to afford a horse.

    Government welfare should be a last resort. Not a way to make your life easier.
    With 46 million americans on some sort of government aid it has gotten way out of control. Something that was meant to help people out in a crisis has become a way of life that they feel they are entitled to.

    We were on food stamps for a while when I was young. My mom remembers giving them $ 100.00 and getting $ 125.00 back in food stamps. I guess that doesn't happen anymore.

    My mom also volunteers at our local food pantry. She says 95%+ of the people who go through there are grossly obese, makes you wonder doesn't it?

    You really have no business/ right owning any luxury if you can't work to pay for it and yourself.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by showhorsegallery View Post
    Why are you so angry? At least you sound very angry. Guess what? I think New York is over taxed too! I'm sorry that you have such high sales tax and such high income tax. But I don't live in your state. If you don't like your high taxes maybe you should move to a different state?

    I want taxes lowered for everyone and I want spending cut too.

    When taxes are lowered the tax revenues actually go up.
    I just find the lack of logic hilarious.

    If you cut federal taxes, YOUR state taxes will have to go up to cover the gap. This is arithmetic. So often it is the people in "net receiver" states who piss and moan about the very taxes that they are NET RECIPIENTS of.

    And meanwhile, let's look at Michael Bloomberg.
    He lives in NEW YORK and pays the "egregiously high" taxes that apparently stifle growth. Plus a 4% Manhattan residence tax just for kicks. He could have moved to Jersey City and taken the PATH train in to avoid that one but what's 4 cents on the dollar.
    Somehow he managed to turn $10million into the 20th largest fortune IN THE WORLD. All while paying these allegedly growth stifling taxes. In 2009 he had the largest increase in personal wealth ($4.5 billion) of anyone in the world that year. Despite paying those high taxes.

    And all the people in states who are net receivers of all those taxes say the liberal states with the high tax rates have their fiscal policy back@$$wards. And the spending they advocate cutting is money that is being spent on THEIR state by OTHERS.

    Who is going to make up the difference when you get the federal take reduced? Hm?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #76
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    Jan. 14, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPF View Post
    What burns me is the people on food stamps/welfare that have iphones. I mean, really? An iphone is not a necessity for anyone, I don't care who you are. You do not need one in order to live, and it is not a living thing that would need to be re-homed. One of my best friends is in social work and says almost every person she interviews in the hood who is on welfare has an iphone. SHE can't even afford an iphone!
    Yes, even as a card carrying, dyed-in-the blue liberal, things like this frost me. Basic cell phone instead of a house phone, ok. But I make good money and still can't bring myself to pay for an iphone. But my sister makes sure to have what she wants despite collecting...

    Quote Originally Posted by KPF View Post
    The vast majority of the iphone carrying welfare crowd has not paid squat into the system. All they've done is take. (sorry for the partial derailment, OP!)
    I'd like to see the real numbers. You may not know the vast majority of welfare recipients. And in any event, welfare is a tricky situation. it has created dependence and a trap for many families. So, rather than getting angry at the "takers", get angry at the politicians and policy makers who do not take the steps needed to fix it.

    Quote Originally Posted by showhorsegallery View Post
    Why are you so angry? At least you sound very angry. Guess what? I think New York is over taxed too! I'm sorry that you have such high sales tax and such high income tax. But I don't live in your state. If you don't like your high taxes maybe you should move to a different state?
    S/he does not sound angry to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Yes, but you quite like driving on your interstate that the other states pay for, don't you?

    Is there some reason I have to pay my share for all the NY interstates (plus the tolls for driving on them) AND ALSO a portion of yours????? Perhaps your state should up its contributions to "the country as a whole" to pull its own weight?
    I didn't think she is complaining.


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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Yes, but you quite like driving on your interstate that the other states pay for, don't you?

    Is there some reason I have to pay my share for all the NY interstates (plus the tolls for driving on them) AND ALSO a portion of yours????? Perhaps your state should up its contributions to "the country as a whole" to pull its own weight?

    Again, you don't understand Macro Economy, don't you? Sorry don't have time to give a proper lecture. Before you jump up and down, perhaps you should study what the majority of trucks and semis, or vehicles in general, driving on those interstates are, and I will guarantee you that it ain't Oklahoman. Federal deals with Commerce; State deals with local economy.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    I just find the lack of logic hilarious.

    If you cut federal taxes, YOUR state taxes will have to go up to cover the gap. This is arithmetic. So often it is the people in "net receiver" states who piss and moan about the very taxes that they are NET RECIPIENTS of.

    And meanwhile, let's look at Michael Bloomberg.
    He lives in NEW YORK and pays the "egregiously high" taxes that apparently stifle growth. Plus a 4% Manhattan residence tax just for kicks.
    Somehow he managed to turn $10million into the 20th largest fortune IN THE WORLD. All while paying these allegedly growth stifling taxes. In 2009 he had the largest increase in personal wealth ($4.5 billion) of anyone in the world that year. Despite paying those high taxes.

    And all the people in states who are net receivers of all those taxes say the liberal states with the high tax rates have their fiscal policy back@$$wards. And the spending they advocate cutting is money that is being spent on THEIR state by OTHERS.

    Who is going to make up the difference when you get the federal take reduced? Hm?
    There is another side to the tax equation that escapes people. INCOME times the tax rate equals the tax. When you lower the tax rate, the money that would have gone to the FED is used to grow the INCOME number, grow the GDP. GDP is not a fixed number, it usually expands under a free market governent. Net, net the government usually recoups the initial lower tax base after the first two years.

    Just ask Clinton, he did it.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    I just find the lack of logic hilarious.

    If you cut federal taxes, YOUR state taxes will have to go up to cover the gap. This is arithmetic. So often it is the people in "net receiver" states who piss and moan about the very taxes that they are NET RECIPIENTS of.

    And meanwhile, let's look at Michael Bloomberg.
    He lives in NEW YORK and pays the "egregiously high" taxes that apparently stifle growth. Plus a 4% Manhattan residence tax just for kicks.
    Somehow he managed to turn $10million into the 20th largest fortune IN THE WORLD. All while paying these allegedly growth stifling taxes. In 2009 he had the largest increase in personal wealth ($4.5 billion) of anyone in the world that year. Despite paying those high taxes.

    And all the people in states who are net receivers of all those taxes say the liberal states with the high tax rates have their fiscal policy back@$$wards. And the spending they advocate cutting is money that is being spent on THEIR state by OTHERS.

    Who is going to make up the difference when you get the federal take reduced? Hm?
    Whose economy is growing faster and attracting more businesses? Florida or New York? I know a lot of the banks that traditionally have been headquartered in New York are moving their HQ to Florida because of the lower taxes. I have a lot of friends who work in the Financial industry and they tell me how certain large banks that they work at are quietly moving their HQs to North Florida.

    If Federal dollars were reduced, the difference can be made up by expanding the tax base (attracting new residents and businesses by being a business friendly state) and cutting spending.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by showhorsegallery View Post
    Whose economy is growing faster and attracting more businesses? Florida or New York? I know a lot of the banks that traditionally have been headquartered in New York are moving their HQ to Florida because of the lower taxes. I have a lot of friends who work in the Financial industry and they tell me how certain large banks that they work at are quietly moving their HQs to North Florida.

    If Federal dollars were reduced, the difference can be made up by expanding the tax base (attracting new residents and businesses by being a business friendly state) and cutting spending.

    Did you seriously just try to favorably compare Florida's economy to New York's?

    I'm sorry, where was the housing bubble crash the worst? (Thanks for that, btw.)
    Which state has STILL not recovered?

    People can buy houses for pennies on the dollar because your entire state IMPLODED. If you were a separate country you would be Spain. Thank God for you you're part of the Union so the rest of us can carry you through.


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