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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    You are kidding, are you.
    If not, that is the most absurd post I have read yet.
    Yes Bluey, of course I'm kidding, just specifically so you think I'm absurd!

    The worst purveyors of this is the Pharma industry. If you are a Pharma company that relies on people buying your medication, does it make more business sense to treat them and resolve the issue, or to give them a for-life prescription so that they pay into your pocket every 30 or 90 days for the rest of their lives?

    If health care is a for profit industry - the profit is not being made off of healthy people.
    It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.

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    6 members found this post helpful.

  2. #42
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    Where the prairie ends and the mountains begin
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    What I don't understand is how many, if not most, Americans see education as a basic right. The largest education systems (public schools) in the country are government run and taxpayer funded.

    So tell me this. No really, I am not being snarky here, someone please explain to me: How is an education for every American a RIGHT in this country, but healthcare for every American is not?

    I don't know what the answer is, but something must be done. Soon.
    Dreaming in Color


    13 members found this post helpful.

  3. #43
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    Apr. 28, 2010
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    Atlanta, GA and New Orleans, LA
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    Wow, this thread has really evolved away from the original question -- physician views on the healthcare act.
    Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion.... ~ Emerson


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #44
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    Aug. 21, 2007
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    636

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    Quote Originally Posted by drmgncolor View Post
    What I don't understand is how many, if not most, Americans see education as a basic right. The largest education systems (public schools) in the country are government run and taxpayer funded.

    So tell me this. No really, I am not being snarky here, someone please explain to me: How is an education for every American a RIGHT in this country, but healthcare for every American is not?

    I don't know what the answer is, but something must be done. Soon.
    Education is a right because democracy cannot work with an uneducated populace. (And for the record, I think the right of one child's education ends when that child repeatedly disrupts his other classmates right to their education.)
    In our area many PCPs are going to concierge service. They will make money, not have to deal with insurance, have few patients who they can take their time with, and have better lives. I'm trying to figure out how I am going to fit that into my budget, especially when I retire and will probably need more handholding in my care. Reducing payments to doctors will push more doctors to this model and reduce the number of docs available for the rest of society.
    The bill should have been called the affordable insurance act because you may be able to afford the insurance but it is questionable as to whether or not you will be able to get the care you need...but hey, at least you will have insurance.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #45
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by two sticks View Post
    Yes Bluey, of course I'm kidding, just specifically so you think I'm absurd!

    The worst purveyors of this is the Pharma industry. If you are a Pharma company that relies on people buying your medication, does it make more business sense to treat them and resolve the issue, or to give them a for-life prescription so that they pay into your pocket every 30 or 90 days for the rest of their lives?

    If health care is a for profit industry - the profit is not being made off of healthy people.
    Right.

    Teachers don't want their students to learn so they always be the ones that know most and the students will need to keep coming to classes.
    Judges and attorneys don't want criminals to stay in jails because then they won't have a job, will run out of criminals to prosecute.
    Horse trainers won't ever train the horse past green so they get to keep training it.

    Makes much sense, does it.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
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    Jul. 14, 2000
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    midwest
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    Quote Originally Posted by two sticks View Post
    This. As long as health care is a for profit industry, it is in the interest of pharmaceutical companies, doctors, and hospitals to keep people sick and coming back rather then get them healthy and out of the system.
    LOL. I have yet to find a doctor or hospital that actively worked to keep me or a family member sick.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
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    Dec. 2, 2002
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    Berlin, Germany
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    My husband is a radiologist at a renowned (top 3) hospital. He strongly supported the Affordable Care Act, and joined several of the physicians in his program canvassing for Obama this election season.
    Here today, gone tomorrow...


    11 members found this post helpful.

  8. #48
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchFrytheEqHorse View Post
    My husband is a radiologist at a renowned (top 3) hospital. He strongly supported the Affordable Care Act, and joined several of the physicians in his program canvassing for Obama this election season.
    I think it is clear that some doctors working with hospitals and colleges are for it, as they are already salaried employees.
    Some are just going to like it because of their political affiliation, just as some won't for the same reason.

    What I have heard from doctors is that it is a bad program as they understand it and don't like how those programs have been working out in other countries as they would try to work here.

    Both systems are faulty and we could keep working on what in our current one was not working or revamp the whole and still come to the same end, so why go the socialist route?
    Denmark tried all government run programs and almost went bankrupt, had to start to add private insurance companies to the mix to make it work.

    How best to handle health care in this country is not an easy, one size fits all problem to work thru.

    Anyway, we have now what we have and will have to wait to see how the cookie crumbles with what we have.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #49
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    Jun. 16, 2007
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    I work in the health care field and work with both generalists and specialists. Plus I live in Minnesota which is and has been leading the way in the health care fields. I do not put physicians on a higher plain. The people attracted to being doctors ARE the high achievers but they are not by any means necessarily the compassionate caregivers you are imagining. They are the ultimate achievers and many expected ultimate rewards...great pay and status. I do know of specialists like anesthesiologists who have left Minnesota to practice in Florida because Florida has less managed care and simply pays better...I like the anesthesiologests left in Minnesota just fine. In Minnesota many physicians have had to join physician groups...not because of managed care but because management and insurance costs are so high they need to be in a group to spread the risk. More and more physicians are leaving the groups to go into private practice so they get out of the 10 minutes per patient treadmill...they take cash and charge less and make a living they are happier with because they want to be better doctors. However, the health Plans are being more innovative in giving patients more time and better care. We have however lost benefits...as a person working for a large medical system in a large hospital...in that part timers now have to work 60% to buy into the health care benefit as opposed to 50% before, also, for the first time, smokers have to pay more for their health care and non smokers get a discount. Looking at health care as the problem is ignoring the decline in general health, fitness and aging of the population. It ignores the tremendous rise in the cost of education for physicians. I personally think that if a life as a physician did not reap such high financial rewards that the people who would go into medicine would be the people who would be better physicians. Medicine makes LOTS of money and NONE of the people making money are willing to give it up. We have owners of NON PROFIT health care plans wanting to buy sport teams. Instead they are buying political parties. They are thick in Minnesota and building new facilities right and left. Very very expensive pieces of diagnostic equipment are bought and then expensive advertising competes for the patients to ride their new machines. There is money everywhere. My Mom had stomach cancer and it was discovered on a vacation in Belgium...her care in Begium was outstanding but she wanted to get home to Minnesota. Her complete bill in Belgium was $24,000...the identical testing and care in Minnesota was $240,000. Consider that Minnesota has the closest health care system to the public health care in Begium and it was still so much more expensive. That is comparing apples and apples. PatO


    6 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
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    Sep. 8, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by candyappy View Post
    I would rather the health insurance companies come up with something these people can afford and that the government stay out of it 100%.
    You know what they say -- wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first. (I get such a kick out of that expression, crass as it is.) Seriously, I don't see health insurance companies coming up with anything more affordable out of the goodness of their hearts.

    (What Janet said!)


    8 members found this post helpful.

  11. #51
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    Aug. 3, 2009
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    We can not do a "holocaust scenario" for situations we fear, we must work for the whole and find a solution. "these people" can be you or I

    Quote Originally Posted by candyappy View Post
    I would rather the health insurance companies come up with something these people can afford and that the government stay out of it 100%.

    With 46 million people in this country on some sort of government aid that we( working taxpayers) can't afford to pay for, and that our government can't manage now, I seriously doubt this will end up being beneficial to anyone in the end.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Teachers don't want their students to learn so they always be the ones that know most and the students will need to keep coming to classes.
    Judges and attorneys don't want criminals to stay in jails because then they won't have a job, will run out of criminals to prosecute.
    Horse trainers won't ever train the horse past green so they get to keep training it.
    Okay, those are maybe the worst analogies in the history of . . . analogies.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #53
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    Sep. 8, 2006
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    Fredericksburg, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by two sticks View Post
    The worst purveyors of this is the Pharma industry. If you are a Pharma company that relies on people buying your medication, does it make more business sense to treat them and resolve the issue, or to give them a for-life prescription so that they pay into your pocket every 30 or 90 days for the rest of their lives?

    If health care is a for profit industry - the profit is not being made off of healthy people.
    Further explanation and clarification courtesy of Chris Rock:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7P4iFg048k



    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #54
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windsor1 View Post
    Okay, those are maybe the worst analogies in the history of . . . analogies.
    You did get the gist of them?
    That is what matters here.

    What I was responding to is like saying grocery stores are trying to kill their clients with the food they sell.
    You like that one better?



  15. #55
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    Sep. 8, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    You did get the gist of them?
    That is what matters here.

    What I was responding to is like saying grocery stores are trying to kill their clients with the food they sell.
    You like that one better?
    No.

    I think there is truth to the argument that while Big Pharma does not want to keep you SICK, it IS in their best interest to keep you on their profit-making drugs for life.

    That will sound all conspiracy-theorist to some, but I think there's more than a grain of truth to it.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  16. #56
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    Dec. 15, 2005
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    I am a nurse practitioner in a pediatric clinic. All of our pediatricians are ecstatic about Obamacare. We are so tired of trying to get care for uninsured kids. This week, I saw a teenager who broke his hand in football on Friday. We sent him to the ER for a x-ray because the hospital Urgent Care next to us won't allow our uninsured kids to get X-rays there. The ortho clinic that sees uninsured kids gave him an appointment for 4 weeks from now. I spent 20 minutes on the phone begging to get him seen today. If the fracture is out of place, the orthopedist can push on it and then cast it. If he doesn't get seen for 4 weeks, it will need surgery to re-break the bone and put a plate in. At that point, he will have a multi thousand dollar bill and will be eligible for Medicaid. It is crazy to see how poorly the system works now for the uninsured. We taxpayers pay through the nose and kids don't get good care.


    20 members found this post helpful.

  17. #57
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    Nov. 4, 2003
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    The AMA represents about 20%, if that, of our docs. Most that do belong are academics and med students.

    None of my docs have been on the bandwagon. My mom lost her GP about 1.5 years ago. Think he had mostly a Medicare practice if the folks sitting in his waiting room were any indication. He moved out to the burbs with a corporate practice. My GP will probably hang it up...he's pushing retirement but will probably retire earlier due to the investment to switch to electronic. My DDS said the law didn't impact dentists much at this point.
    Julie
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    Safer, Stronger, Lasts Longer!
    Godspeed BARBARO--Run fast and free!



  18. #58
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    Nov. 13, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I think it is clear that some doctors working with hospitals and colleges are for it, as they are already salaried employees.
    Some are just going to like it because of their political affiliation, just as some won't for the same reason.

    What I have heard from doctors is that it is a bad program as they understand it and don't like how those programs have been working out in other countries as they would try to work here.
    .
    so you are going to disregard some physicians positions as invalid for reasons such as their political affiliation or because they are hospital/university affiliated, and only give credence to the ones who don't like it? Because?? those are the ones that agree with you?
    Bottom line- some doctors like it and some don't, just like the rest of the population. Some oppose it for ill-conceived, selfish, uninformed or irrational reasons and some oppose it for well-grounded, reasoned concerns about it. But just because a physician is, gasp, a Democrat doesn't mean their support of it is any less valid or worth consideration
    There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.(Churchill)


    7 members found this post helpful.

  19. #59
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    Jul. 20, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    You miss the point, Sunny.

    The Law of Supply and Demand still works. If you grossly increase the demand for a service but don't expand the supply what happens?

    Now what happens if the State says you can't respond to changes in demand?

    How long does it take to train a nurse? Or a lab tech? Or Family Practitioner?

    The wait is NOT going to be a few days, it's going to be like a few weeks (and maybe even a few months at some times of the year, like in flu season or allergy season).

    You don't just go out and "hire" a few new people to give injections, draw blood, do surgical prep, etc.

    Obamacare has really been sold as "pie in the sky." It' more likely going to be something very different.

    G.
    hmmm, we already wait. If I want to see a GP, I will have to wait months right now, unless I have an urgent condition.

    As far as a sudden influx of people into the services that overwhelms the capabilities? I doubt it. Unless you are saying there are so many unserved patients out there that it will really make a difference. If there are, how can this possiblly be right? How can the supply and demand change so drastically unless there are huge numbers of people out there right now that are not getting care they need? How can you support that? If you really feel these people need to be denied care, so you don't have to wait in line, then we have nothing to discuss.


    I agree, there is a nursing shortage. Has been for a long time. Needs to be fixed and is an issue independent of health care.

    As for labs etc, I'd guess that the same labs that run all those ER room samples can probably handle the samples that come in from the GPs instead....


    6 members found this post helpful.

  20. #60
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by bambam View Post
    so you are going to disregard some physicians positions as invalid for reasons such as their political affiliation or because they are hospital/university affiliated, and only give credence to the ones who don't like it? Because?? those are the ones that agree with you?
    Bottom line- some doctors like it and some don't, just like the rest of the population. Some oppose it for ill-conceived, selfish, uninformed or irrational reasons and some oppose it for well-grounded, reasoned concerns about it. But just because a physician is, gasp, a Democrat doesn't mean their support of it is any less valid or worth consideration
    Nope, I don't know or care about the politics of health care reform.
    I am reporting what the doctors and other health care workers I have talked about this have said.

    I don't know not one that has been for it for years now, since this first came up.
    That is all I know and have said so.



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