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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    Businesses/economies grows under a moderate Democrat like Clinton who was really center-left.

    The economy will not grow under Obama, businesses will wait out the next 4 years, huddle up and protect the core CEO/CFO upper management executive types, the rank and file will not fare so well. The rank and file will start being down sized. The next bubble to burst will be the bond market, this will effect the Fortune 1000 types.

    Expect more unemployment, the jobless rate will continue to rise as people get laid off and a reduced core work force to part timers to get around Obamacare.

    Companies/Wall Street and small businesses will find creative ways around all the beuracratic regulations that will be imposed, that is a fact!!

    There is a resounding truth to the saying "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" which group do you identify with, I know mine.

    ETA: Its really bad when even China regards Obama as a socialist, and preferred Romney to Obama. Gah!
    As I quoted above
    Historically, the economy grows at an average of 4.1% under an average Democratic president compared to 2.9% under an average Republican president. Bush was one of the lowest performing presidents, with his economy growing at only 2.2%, and this is before taking into account the recession. Romney has already surrounded himself with the same advisers as the Bush administration, so there is little to dissuade any talk that his economic policies would be any improved over his predecessors. Conversely, Obama entered into office with the worst recession in modern history underway, and still managed to pull off 1.5% growth when experts expected closer to 0.7%.


    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  2. #162
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    I'm pretty sure businesses will not self destruct just to spite Obama.


    20 members found this post helpful.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    Businesses/economies grows under a moderate Democrat like Clinton who was really center-left.

    The economy will not grow under Obama, businesses will wait out the next 4 years, huddle up and protect the core CEO/CFO upper management executive types, the rank and file will not fare so well. The rank and file will start being down sized. The next bubble to burst will be the bond market, this will effect the Fortune 1000 types.

    Expect more unemployment, the jobless rate will continue to rise as people get laid off and a reduced core work force to part timers to get around Obamacare.

    Companies/Wall Street and small businesses will find creative ways around all the beuracratic regulations that will be imposed, that is a fact!!

    There is a resounding truth to the saying "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" which group do you identify with, I know mine.

    ETA: Its really bad when even China regards Obama as a socialist, and preferred Romney to Obama. Gah!
    Actually China, as with most other countries, preferred Obama http://www.globescan.com/commentary-...to-romney.html
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sswor View Post
    I'm pretty sure businesses will not self destruct just to spite Obama.
    Absolutely right, they will wait out the next 4 years. They will do things that protect their core, and that means bad things for the rank and file.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    Actually China, as with most other countries, preferred Obama http://www.globescan.com/commentary-...to-romney.html
    Try reading a Chinese news source. They supported Romney. Theri success depends on the US global economy, since the US is the single largest consumer of Chinese goods.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    As I quoted above
    Historically, the economy grows at an average of 4.1% under an average Democratic president compared to 2.9% under an average Republican president. Bush was one of the lowest performing presidents, with his economy growing at only 2.2%, and this is before taking into account the recession. Romney has already surrounded himself with the same advisers as the Bush administration, so there is little to dissuade any talk that his economic policies would be any improved over his predecessors. Conversely, Obama entered into office with the worst recession in modern history underway, and still managed to pull off 1.5% growth when experts expected closer to 0.7%.


    I am really surprised at how many people still buy the Blame Bush mantra. Fast forward 4 more years and we will potentially have negative growth, then who will we blame for that.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    Businesses/economies grows under a moderate Democrat like Clinton who was really center-left.

    The economy will not grow under Obama, businesses will wait out the next 4 years, huddle up and protect the core CEO/CFO upper management executive types, the rank and file will not fare so well. The rank and file will start being down sized. The next bubble to burst will be the bond market, this will effect the Fortune 1000 types.

    Expect more unemployment, the jobless rate will continue to rise as people get laid off and a reduced core work force to part timers to get around Obamacare.

    Companies/Wall Street and small businesses will find creative ways around all the beuracratic regulations that will be imposed, that is a fact!!

    There is a resounding truth to the saying "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" which group do you identify with, I know mine.

    ETA: Its really bad when even China regards Obama as a socialist, and preferred Romney to Obama. Gah!
    Best post so far...spot on. Why anyone thinks this four years will be any better than the last four really hasn't considered the nightmare of Obamacare yet to have it's business stifling effects.

    Not much to add to what has already been said but I'm very pessimistic about the next four years. I hope we survive it as a nation but what is coming is not going to be fun.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  8. #168
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    I think I read that the exit polls showed at least 40% still blame the economy on Bush. They forget a few historical facts. Someone I know posted them sometime back and I can't remember if I shared this on this forum or not. But it does bear repeating, and so.........

    Sarah, thank you for sharing this. I haven't been able to figure out why no one else seems to bring this up!
    I copied this from a comment from another status, the writer of this is Mark BigDog Johnston – I very much agree:

    The Mess and how Obama inherited it – read it slowly and let it sink in...
    This tells the story of why Bush looked so bad at the end of his term.
    Don't just skim over this, it's not long, but read it slowly and let it sink in. If in doubt, check it out!
    The day the democrats took over was not January 22nd 2009, it was actually January 3rd 2007, the day democrats took over the House of Representatives and the Senate, at the very start of the 110th Congress.
    The Democratic Party controlled a majority in both chambers for the first time since the end of the 103rd Congress in 1995.
    For those who are listening to the liberals propagating the fallacy that everything is "Bush's Fault," think about this:
    January 3rd, 2007 was the day the Democrats took over the Senate and the Congress. At the time:
    The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77.
    The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5%.
    The Unemployment rate was 4.6%.
    George Bush's Economic policies SET A RECORD of 52 STRAIGHT MONTHS of JOB GROWTH.
    Remember the day...
    January 3rd, 2007 was the day that Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee.
    The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy?
    BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES!
    It started with Jimmy Carter and his Housing and Community Investment Act of 1977, broadened by Bill Clinton, enforced by Janet Reno, then sent over the cliff by Frank & Dodd. Oh, Obama, as an attorney in Chicago working on behalf of ACORN, successfully sued Citibank for loan discrimination under Reno's tenure!
    Unemployment... to this CRISIS by (among MANY other things) dumping 5-6 TRILLION Dollars of toxic loans on the economy from YOUR Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac FIASCOES!
    Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie - starting in 2001 because it was financially risky for the US economy.
    And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac? OBAMA
    And who fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie?
    OBAMA and the Democrat Congress.
    So when someone tries to blame Bush..
    REMEMBER JANUARY 3rd, 2007.... THE DAY THE DEMOCRATS TOOK OVER!"
    Budgets do not come from the White House. They come from Congress and the party that controlled Congress since January 2007 is the Democrat Party.
    Furthermore, the Democrats controlled the budget process for 2008 & 2009 as well as 2010 & 2011.
    In that first year, they had to contend with George Bush, which caused them to compromise on spending, when Bush somewhat belatedly got tough on spending increases.
    For 2009 though, Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid bypassed George Bush entirely, passing continuing resolutions to keep government running until Barack Obama could take office. At that time, they passed a massive omnibus spending bill to complete the 2009 budgets.
    And where was Barack Obama during this time? He was a member of that very Congress that passed all of these massive spending bills, and he signed the omnibus bill as President to complete 2009.
    If the Democrats inherited any deficit, it was the 2007 deficit, the last of the Republican budgets. That deficit was the lowest in five years, and the fourth straight decline in deficit spending. After that, Democrats in Congress took control of spending, and that includes Barack Obama, who voted for the budgets.
    If Obama inherited anything, he inherited it from himself.
    In a nutshell, what Obama is saying is I inherited a deficit that I voted for and then I voted to expand that deficit four-fold since January 20th.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  9. #169
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    The crash STARTED because of Fannie and Freddie and the subprime mortgage. I was livid with Bush's caving the last 2 years of his administration. But there you go.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  10. #170
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    I don't think there's any turning back now. We'll just continue the slide into European style socialism. As you've seen from Greece, once you give people all the perks and freebies, they will fight to keep them from being taken away. We're totally losing the fierce independent "I can take care of myself" mentality that this country thrived on.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  11. #171
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    Or God forbid we end up like Sweden/Norway/Finland/Netherlands... Oh the horror! :::faint:::


    21 members found this post helpful.

  12. #172
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    Everyone knows we can all blame Bush for this economic disaster. Well everyone but the few who voted GOP that is. Even the GOP know it, which is why they pretend Bush never existed.


    14 members found this post helpful.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    The crash STARTED because of Fannie and Freddie and the subprime mortgage. I was livid with Bush's caving the last 2 years of his administration. But there you go.
    It crashed because the mortgage lenders got greedy and gave out loans to people with no business holding mortgage. Remember the liar loans. And then, with the collusion of the ratings services, repackaged those crap loans and resold them. That's what caused the crash.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    14 members found this post helpful.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    It crashed because the mortgage lenders got greedy and gave out loans to people with no business holding mortgage. Remember the liar loans. And then, with the collusion of the ratings services, repackaged those crap loans and resold them. That's what caused the crash.
    The mortgage lenders didn't have a choice. They were FORCED to give those subprine loans by the democrats. THEY knew there were gonna be a lot of defaults which is why they repackaged and sold them.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    It crashed because the mortgage lenders got greedy and gave out loans to people with no business holding mortgage. Remember the liar loans. And then, with the collusion of the ratings services, repackaged those crap loans and resold them. That's what caused the crash.
    BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES!
    It started with Jimmy Carter and his Housing and Community Investment Act of 1977, broadened by Bill Clinton, enforced by Janet Reno, then sent over the cliff by Frank & Dodd. Oh, Obama, as an attorney in Chicago working on behalf of ACORN, successfully sued Citibank for loan discrimination under Reno's tenure!
    Unemployment... to this CRISIS by (among MANY other things) dumping 5-6 TRILLION Dollars of toxic loans on the economy from YOUR Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac FIASCOES!
    Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie - starting in 2001 because it was financially risky for the US economy.
    And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac? OBAMA
    And who fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie?
    OBAMA and the Democrat Congress.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  16. #176
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    Repeal of Glass Segal deregulated the financial industry in 1999. Read a little, please it was not that long ago.Same thing happened in 1988 to the California Savings and Loan industry. Same thing happened in Ca when the utilities were deregulated and Enron created rolling black outs to get higher rates on their power purchase agreements.

    Markets cannot self regulate. I think this topic has been discussed in great detail on prior OT days here.


    14 members found this post helpful.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES!
    It started with Jimmy Carter and his Housing and Community Investment Act of 1977, broadened by Bill Clinton, enforced by Janet Reno, then sent over the cliff by Frank & Dodd. Oh, Obama, as an attorney in Chicago working on behalf of ACORN, successfully sued Citibank for loan discrimination under Reno's tenure!
    Unemployment... to this CRISIS by (among MANY other things) dumping 5-6 TRILLION Dollars of toxic loans on the economy from YOUR Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac FIASCOES!
    Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie - starting in 2001 because it was financially risky for the US economy.
    And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac? OBAMA
    And who fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie?
    OBAMA and the Democrat Congress.
    I don't know where this originated, but if you Google this entire passage, you'll get hundreds of results...posted everywhere from Craiglist, to comment sites to various bulletin boards. Someone's rant that everyone and their brother seems to think is worth repeating, without crediting whoever the original source was.

    Some canned talking point that many people are pretending is their own.


    18 members found this post helpful.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    I am really surprised at how many people still buy the Blame Bush mantra. Fast forward 4 more years and we will potentially have negative growth, then who will we blame for that.
    I am really surprised at how many people think a president can wave a magic wand and fix something that took 8 years to create....


    22 members found this post helpful.

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    Try reading a Chinese news source. They supported Romney. Theri success depends on the US global economy, since the US is the single largest consumer of Chinese goods.
    JMO but I would rather trust a BBC survey than a Chinese news source. IIRC just yesterday some USA news sources also supported Romney
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    The mortgage lenders didn't have a choice. They were FORCED to give those subprine loans by the democrats. THEY knew there were gonna be a lot of defaults which is why they repackaged and sold them.
    Bull hockey. But, if that's what you want to believe, go ahead. Your theory has been refuted time and time again.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    12 members found this post helpful.

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