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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
    Republicans don't want to be competitive with Democrats because that would alienate their religious and hawkishly Conservative voter-base. Conservatism is on it's slow and steady way out the door along with the religions that nurture it, as far as American youth are concerned, so I wouldn't be surprised if there is a collapse of Republican power over the next fifty years.
    That's hardly going to happen.
    These things go in swings and roundabouts. It will swing the other way in a few years. One of these years the Republicans will figure out a way to actually appeal to minorities instead of scaring them away. It's inevitable actually, as a lot of minorities cherish things like hard working/family values etc, which Repubs preport to espouse. As minorites and immigrants become more firmly entrenched in middle America, you'll see that vote going more equally to both parties. It happened with all previous immigrant groups, Italian, Irish etc, which were all solidly Democratic groups at one point, but are now much more evenly split.
    But Repubs are going to have to wake up and realize that this country is getting a lose less white with every passing year. You gotta be inclusive.
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    2 members found this post helpful.

  2. #142
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    I hope the Republican party comes back more to the middle - the rape comments were absolutely stomach churning to me.
    I felt as if we had a really horrible choice - either vote for people/humanity or the economy.
    I do believe that Obama inherited a great deal of this from past issues. Hopefully we can now move forward to fix what's wrong.
    Just call me Pollyanna...............
    Exactly. If the Republican party hadn't been hijacked by the fringe evangelical right, it would have been a Republican landslide. Let's hope they realize this, come back towards the center, become more inclusive of women and immigrants. Their demographic is changing, the party of the old white men is dying out. Time for a change.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    9 members found this post helpful.

  3. #143
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    Nov. 20, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn trails View Post
    I couldn't be happier!

    FYI, it was George W. Bush who got us into this terrible economy, Obama is working hard to dig us out. How quickly people forget.
    Curious, Mtn trails... when we are even farther down the financial debt hole in a few years, will this administration still blame it on Bush?


    4 members found this post helpful.

  4. #144
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    Jul. 28, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Exactly. If the Republican party hadn't been hijacked by the fringe evangelical right, it would have been a Republican landslide. Let's hope they realize this, come back towards the center, become more inclusive of women and immigrants. Their demographic is changing, the party of the old white men is dying out. Time for a change.
    That said ^^, it is also time for the Dem's to come back more towards the center as well, and be more inclusive of the Rep electorate as well.

    It's time for Obama to invite Boehner for another golf game, and during said golf game, to apologize deeply for the sometimes arrogant attitude of himself/his staffers.

    And then Boehner needs to be bold enough, and brave enough, to accept the apology, so both parties can meet somewhere in the middle for the next 4 years and move the country forward, economically and socially.

    For the last 2 years both sides appear to be have been cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

    Your country is sitting on a fiscal cliff, and if you can't make some bold and cooperative steps together, you will drag many of us down with you.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  5. #145
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    Oct. 4, 2003
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    Hurdle Mills, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by showhorsegallery View Post
    I'm sorry but being able to donate money to a campaign is covered under the spirit of free speech. I don't enjoy the robo calls or direct mailers either, but I want people to be able to freely spend their money and support their candidate in the name of free speech. I may not agree with who you want to donate your campaign contributions to, but I don't begrudge you the ability to do so.

    Also the money isn't wasted. There are whole industries that rely on this money that create jobs. Someone has to print the mailers, someone has to design the mailers, someone has to pay for the robo-calling machines on and on.
    I think it's been pretty well established that mixing money and politics is a very nice recipe for corruption, not to mention the fact that equating money with free speech means that people without money are not going to have much "free speech."

    And then there is the matter of what politicians have felt they have needed to do to keep their jobs in the present environment. E.g., I think it's pretty sad that most of our elected officials have been spending large portions of almost every day engaged in fundraising, it having been made all too clear to them that that's what they need to do to stay in office. This is time and energy that would more properly be invested in carefully studying issues, bills, etc., in an effort to represent the interests of their constituencies.

    Hard to tell, too, when "freely spend[ing] money to support their candidate" transitions into bribery.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  6. #146
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    Feb. 16, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by fish View Post
    I think it's been pretty well established that mixing money and politics is a very nice recipe for corruption, not to mention the fact that equating money with free speech means that people without money are not going to have much "free speech."

    And then there is the matter of what politicians have felt they have needed to do to keep their jobs in the present environment. E.g., I think it's pretty sad that most of our elected officials have been spending large portions of almost every day engaged in fundraising, it having been made all too clear to them that that's what they need to do to stay in office. This is time and energy that would more properly be invested in carefully studying issues, bills, etc., in an effort to represent the interests of their constituencies.

    Hard to tell, too, when "freely spend[ing] money to support their candidate" transitions into bribery.
    It's naive to think even with legislation limiting campaign contributions that there still won't be corruption. At least when it's free and open, EVERYBODY has the ability to participate.

    Bribery is some way or the other is rampant on both sides of the political spectrum and that's never going to stop, even if it's just through the spoils system.

    Don't gag yourself in the hopes that it'll keep someone else from speaking out. Those that play fair are the only ones who would be silenced.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #147
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    Nov. 4, 2003
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    What is sad is that 14,000,000 less people bothered to vote than last year when so much more was at stake. I would have thought that turnout would have been at record highs.
    Julie
    www.centaurfencing.com
    Safer, Stronger, Lasts Longer!
    Godspeed BARBARO--Run fast and free!


    4 members found this post helpful.

  8. #148
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    Aug. 24, 2000
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    An interesting consequence of the election is that despite the Dow being down almost 400 points before noon, Smith & Wesson is up 7% this morning. My favorite source, MarketWatch, says that the huge drop is due to the situation in Europe. Can't imagine what has happened in Europe since midnight. Did Pippa Middleton's butt gain weight?


    6 members found this post helpful.

  9. #149
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Yes, they were problems with that, but not about how to get the country back on track economically and work with others and that is what we elect a president to do.
    We will never know now how the other side would have done that, will we.
    FWIW while the GOP is the party of business the economy actually tends to improve under democratic administrations.
    I picked one article http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/10...andle-economy/ but if you google "economy improved under democratic" you will find a lot more articles.

    Fron the above article Historically, the economy grows at an average of 4.1% under an average Democratic president compared to 2.9% under an average Republican president. Bush was one of the lowest performing presidents, with his economy growing at only 2.2%, and this is before taking into account the recession. Romney has already surrounded himself with the same advisers as the Bush administration, so there is little to dissuade any talk that his economic policies would be any improved over his predecessors. Conversely, Obama entered into office with the worst recession in modern history underway, and still managed to pull off 1.5% growth when experts expected closer to 0.7%.


    So maybe a little less of "I've got mine" and a little more compassion actually IS a good thing
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    13 members found this post helpful.

  10. #150
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    Oct. 12, 2005
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    "A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of Government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy..." Professor Alexander Fraser Tyler writing when the states were still colonies of Great Britain, explaining why democracies always fail.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  11. #151
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I am with you.
    When someone posted a link to a survey about who you prefer, there were Obama and Romney and several others listed, after answering many questions, I came up with 96% for Obama.

    Yes, he has a good talk, anyone disagreeing with what he is telling is made to feel bad, because his talk is about doing so much for so many.

    The fly in that ointment, as we have seen for four years now and are being threatened with "more to come" is that talk is not cheap after all, there is going to have to be a way to back that with ways to make it possible for those that work to keep working to pay for all that we want to give all to raise our standard of living.

    I have not seen that happening and don't expect it will if this administration keeps on this path and becomes even more socialist now that it thinks it has a free hand.

    I will have to say that Obama has played his cards wonderfully, done enough to keep his supporters happy, held his hand so as not to become obvious where he is headed and for all to see the consequences.

    I won't guess to what he will do next.
    He may have grown up enough to realize what he wants is maybe not what is best after all, moderate his ambitions and hold his hand, making the changes suitable for our world today, our society.

    If he goes hog wild and tries to use the next four years to push all he can cram in there following his way out socialist ideas, well, then we are in for a very rough ride.
    Social engineering at that level, on a country the size and diversity the USA is, is like throwing a bomb in the middle of a crowded town square.
    I don't think he will, but we will have to wait to see what happens, how far he does go.
    That was my concern four years ago and it didn't happen, but it is still today and hopefully it won't happen this time either.
    Bluey, Bluey, can't you see? He IS a moderate. The left was as upset with him as the right. You really need to stop listening to right wing radio, or whatever you're reading and/or listening to.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    15 members found this post helpful.

  12. #152
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    Feb. 16, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    "A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of Government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy..." Professor Alexander Fraser Tyler writing when the states were still colonies of Great Britain, explaining why democracies always fail.
    This will be lost on those who you mean to hear this. They are either willfully ignorant or just don't care. The best you can do is ask them leading questions that
    maybe get them thinking from a different point of view. Socrates is your friend in these conversations.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  13. #153
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    Sep. 18, 2000
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    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...h_the_gop.html



    Dear Republicans,

    Sorry about the election. I know how much it hurts when your presidential candidate loses. I’ve been there many times. You’re crestfallen. You can’t believe the public voted for that idiot. You fear for your country.

    Cheer up. The guy we just re-elected is a moderate Republican.
    .....

    Obama’s no right-winger. You might have serious issues with his Supreme Court justices or his moves on immigration or the Bush tax cuts. But you probably would have had similar issues with Dwight Eisenhower, Richard Nixon, or Gerald Ford. Obama’s in the same mold as those guys. So don’t despair. Your country didn’t vote for a socialist tonight. It voted for the candidate of traditional Republican moderation. What should gall you, haunt you, and goad you to think about the future of your party is that that candidate wasn’t yours.


    17 members found this post helpful.

  14. #154
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    Aug. 4, 2011
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    Businesses/economies grows under a moderate Democrat like Clinton who was really center-left.

    The economy will not grow under Obama, businesses will wait out the next 4 years, huddle up and protect the core CEO/CFO upper management executive types, the rank and file will not fare so well. The rank and file will start being down sized. The next bubble to burst will be the bond market, this will effect the Fortune 1000 types.

    Expect more unemployment, the jobless rate will continue to rise as people get laid off and a reduced core work force to part timers to get around Obamacare.

    Companies/Wall Street and small businesses will find creative ways around all the beuracratic regulations that will be imposed, that is a fact!!

    There is a resounding truth to the saying "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" which group do you identify with, I know mine.

    ETA: Its really bad when even China regards Obama as a socialist, and preferred Romney to Obama. Gah!


    4 members found this post helpful.

  15. #155
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    Feb. 16, 2010
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    My issue with this is I want a fiscal conservative and a social liberal. I'm screwed no matter who is elected.

    Bush signed stimulus package(s) just like Obama has done. They both had reserve chairmen who fiddled with the currency/interest rates in the same ways. It's just a matter of who does it more aggressively.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    Businesses/economies grows under a moderate Democrat like Clinton who was really center-left.

    The economy will not grow under Obama, businesses will wait out the next 4 years, huddle up and protect the core CEO/CFO upper management executive types, the rank and file will not fare so well. The rank and file will start being down sized. The next bubble to burst will be the bond market, this will effect the Fortune 1000 types.

    Expect more unemployment, the jobless rate will continue to rise as people get laid off and a reduced core work force to part timers to get around Obamacare.

    Companies/Wall Street and small businesses will find creative ways around all the beuracratic regulations that will be imposed, that is a fact!!

    There is a resounding truth to the saying "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" which group do you identify with, I know mine.
    I'm sure you, like me, will not take much pleasure in being right.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #157
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    Oct. 27, 2009
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    I am absolutely thrilled. I'm sorry not everyone is so happy but that's the way the cookie crumbles in a democracy. There were plenty of us who were devastated (and as it turned out rightly so) in 2000 and 2004. We made do and now we get to look to the future. It's been a hard slog pulling out of the mess that the economy was but things are getting better, that I know. It's something that will take time and we are steadily moving in the right direction.

    In addition to the presidential election we saw 12 women elected to the senate! WOW, that is amazing and historic no matter what side of the fence you're on. We also saw marriage equality pass in all three states, including my own state of WA, and a constitutional ban on marriage voted down in a fourth. What a HUGE win for civil rights! And two states, Colorado and WA also chose to embrace sane drug policy by legalizing and taxing marijuana. This will bring in much needed revenue to both states and will hopefully be an example to the rest of the country. I'm just in awe, it was a fantastic evening!


    20 members found this post helpful.

  18. #158
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    Oct. 12, 2005
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    From where I sit, I can only envision things getting much worse. Does everyone here realize the Fed is monetizing the debt? That they're printing money out of thin air? This decreases the value of our dollar. The flipside will be skyrocketing interest rates. With the total lack of fiscal responsibility, I don't see any answers. Sure wish I could stick my head in the sand. I've had enough assets to take care of myself and help my kids. Now I don't think I'll have enough to take care of myself 5 years down the road. Oh yeah, guess my government will take care of me.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    "A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of Government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy..." Professor Alexander Fraser Tyler writing when the states were still colonies of Great Britain, explaining why democracies always fail.
    This is utterly amazing and how ovbious that the tides have turned. The US is no longer a mojority of producers, the majority has tipped ever so slightly to a majority of takers. The takers will ALWAYS support a president that promises to give more.

    Unfortunately a candidate needs only to run on that promise to give more as they will be sure to get ellected.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  20. #160
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    Oct. 12, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by showhorsegallery View Post
    This will be lost on those who you mean to hear this. They are either willfully ignorant or just don't care. The best you can do is ask them leading questions that
    maybe get them thinking from a different point of view. Socrates is your friend in these conversations.
    Yeah, but who reads Socrates these days?


    2 members found this post helpful.

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