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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by amberhill View Post
    - Please read my release carefully. We produced the full report to the CEO of USEF. We did not produce it to the protester because it is a private document that was part of other matters that did not concern After sending the report to the CEO of USEF, USEF declined to bring its own charges... chose to proceed with the protest on her own and it was found to be unsubstantiated because she was unable to present any evidence of a violation of USEF rules. I hope this clarifies things for the many people who do not understand the USEF protest versus charge process. Please feel free to call me at my office at 434-979-0049 with further questions.
    Just in case past results are an indicator of future performance ....


    wooooowoooooo...I'll go get the wine, somebody grab the popcorn.
    Last edited by findeight; Nov. 12, 2012 at 08:12 AM. Reason: Edited to remove name, avoid trashing one who did the right thing.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    This is kind of complicated because...

    USEF is not a law enforcement agency and has very limited power to act as such. It's a hobby club. Alot of people seem to think they should do something they just cannot do or use tools they just don't have.

    State and local jursidictions vary but most treat livestock as personal property. It was her Pony.

    That local trainer question posed way back is meaningless because USEF only regulates USEF rated shows and USEF members-that local trainer can do whatever they want.

    I know, it sucks. But it has to be proven and would not have gone anywhere in the civilian judicial system either. IIRC local officials declined to be involved.

    There is such a thing as karma, however, administered by the higher powers that be and unrestricted.
    What a hobby club can do, irrespective of any quasi-law enforcement functions, is deny membership including for reasons like "uncooperativeness" and "bad sportsmanship." Without delving into whether either of those were present in this case, as a members-only club the USEF does have the power to admit/deny membership.
    ~Veronica
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  3. #123
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    Wouldn't this be easier if Mandarino said what she was injecting Humble with when he suddenly dropped to the ground and then died? Amber Hill, aka Mandarino, what was in that needle?

    If the overriding concern was for your pony, Humble, it would seem obvious that you would want to get to the bottom of it. If it was an innocent injection, doesn't that say that something was horribly wrong? Shouldn't that be made public for the good of all equines?
    Quote Originally Posted by alicen View Post
    We have no intentions of tarring and feathering anyone: this is now a thread about dipping Ryan Reynolds in chocolate.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    Just in case past results are an indicator of future performance ....


    wooooowoooooo...I'll go get the wine, somebody grab the popcorn.

    Hey F8, would you kindly omit the amber hill post that uses real names?

    I think the first post by amber hill farms was way, way out of line and I asked the Mods to redact it.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    When they are at the grounds for day, weeks or even months? Yes, that would be difficult to imagine.

    But, again, USEF is a hobby club with no law enforcement ability or jurisdiction to operate as a civil or criminal court. Even if they throw the book at violaters, all they can do is ban them from USEF activities. Some of those on the hearing commitee are not any happier with what they have to rule then we are. Really.

    Have heard some rumblings yet to be published hearing results include some pretty stiff penalties for repeat offenders. We'll see.
    So how many injections are horses requiring say,over a 2 week show? So many that it would be cost prohibitive to have a vet administer them? If so IMHO they should be given some time off.
    I do realize that injecting horses has become routine, however, that has resulted in a dead pony. This is not rocket science. There is a way to prevent this from occurring. Will USEF have the balls to address the problem pro-actively? I really hope so, but I'm not holding my breath..


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by amberhill View Post
    Tamara Leigh Tucker - Please read my release carefully. We produced the full report to the CEO of USEF. We did not produce it to the protester because it is a private document that was part of other matters that did not concern [the protester]. After sending the report to the CEO of USEF, USEF declined to bring its own charges. [The protester] chose to proceed with the protest on her own and it was found to be unsubstantiated because she was unable to present any evidence of a violation of USEF rules. I hope this clarifies things for the many people who do not understand the USEF protest versus charge process. Please feel free to call me at my office at 434-979-0049 with further questions.
    An attorney engaging in a conversation with mostly anonymous posters on a public forum. Alrighty then
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Nov. 13, 2012 at 04:05 PM. Reason: quote
    "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
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    3 members found this post helpful.

  7. #127
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    If I were Adequan, I would want to PERSONALLY get to the bottom of this since it could conceivably hurt sales and marketing with the public thinking that this routine inject-able could cause instant death. This is a serious business threatening assertion.
    The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #128
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    What does Mandarino think she is accomplishing by not letting go? I don't see that her recent activities are doing anything other than giving her more bad press.



  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    Hey F8, would you kindly omit the amber hill post that uses real names?

    I think the first post by amber hill farms was way, way out of line and I asked the Mods to redact it.
    I took the name out...as I should have done before quoting the body of the post. I was a little gobsmacked she came on here and was so in our faces, sorry.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by skydy View Post
    So how many injections are horses requiring say,over a 2 week show? So many that it would be cost prohibitive to have a vet administer them? If so IMHO they should be given some time off...
    Try 3 weeks to 3 months.

    Shows today are grouped into circuits running for months at the same venue (WEF, Ocala, Gulfport) or grouped with other nearby venues (KHP and Brownland, the east coast summer schedual, Indoors) to cut down on hauling expenses and avoiding hundreds, even thousands of miles back and forth each week and too many hours/days in the trailer (not to mention $4 a gal for diesel). Horses don't show every single week but stay with the road string.

    There are injections like Adequan and Legend that need to be given at regular, vet approved intervals while that horse is on the road most barns are capable of administering themselves

    I don't believe for a heartbeat this was caused by Adequan, that lawsuit would already have been filed. Whole thing stinks and that was magnified when she came on here the other day dragging in the name of the protester and bragging there was no proof and she was not required to provide protester with any.

    Karma can be a bitch though.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #131
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    We were getting into some personal commentary and direct accusations that have not been substantiated, so we had to remove some posts.

    Thanks,
    Mod 1



  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambitious Kate View Post
    Should these questions and concerns which are being raised and discussed here be addressed to USEF? It would seem to me if they received letters asking about the lack of clarity in their ruling, asking about the lack of information forthcoming from them about the situation, and about the poor reasoning, about the 'hole' in their rules etc, from many people, it might be something they would begin to address in the future.

    Will anyone be writing letters?

    I sent an email to the President, CEO and Director of Regulation for the USEF over a week ago expressing my disappointment with this ruling and have not received any reply. I didn't expect much but was at least hoping for a "thanks for taking the time to write, we appreciate your feedback."



  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by adlgel View Post
    I sent an email to the President, CEO and Director of Regulation for the USEF over a week ago expressing my disappointment with this ruling and have not received any reply. I didn't expect much but was at least hoping for a "thanks for taking the time to write, we appreciate your feedback."
    I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on a response to your letter from the USEF.



  14. #134
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    Oh boy. Elizabeth Mandarino is now adding the protester related to the Humble incident and another protester to her previously filed conspiracy and defamation lawsuit that includes ratemyhorsepro.com, and various anonymous internet posters here on COTH. Will the madness never end?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #135
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    In reference to the above post wherein Mandarino is reported to be going after the person who filed the USEF protest:

    And Another Thing!

    Mods! I PM'd y'all twice-- Two X... more than once-- about redacting the posts that mention the protester by name.

    You'll remember my logic: The USEF offers that person anonymity, presumably to create no barrier to having its own rules enforced as best they can. Mandarino, most likely with an axe to grind, has given the protestor's name here.

    If you don't remove that identifying information, you are thwarting the good intention (and good idea) of the USEF's. You are being used by Mandarino as well. I don't care about that (though it's kind of lame), but I do care about anyone making it harder to enforce the rules already on the USEF's books.

    Would you guys kindly redact those posts or, if you have a reason not to do that, explain to me what that is? Here is fine; by PM is fine.

    Thanks for your consideration,

    -mvp
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #136
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    Mandarino has the protester's name from the USEF documentation as well and was fully aware of who the protester was from basically Day 1 so I don't think COTH can be blamed for providing her with that information. I didn't think there was an expectation that USEF was keeping the protester anonymous.

    See ratemyhorsepro where the documentation on the USEF's ruling has been released as well as the report that this protester and another are being added to her lawsuit.



  17. #137
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    USEF is bound by its laws/regulations. If you want them changed, petition to have them changed for future events.

    Perhaps it would be more beneficial to petition the show to ban Mandarino from showing there for "x" years. Shows up here do that if they feel a trainer is not showing proper standards of Horsemanship regardless of what the association decides.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  18. #138
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    We removed the name of the protester as a courtesy, as it was not included in the USEF's press release(s) regarding the protest, though it is included in other content/news coverage re: the case.

    Our apologies for any confusion.
    Mod 1


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  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by adlgel View Post
    Mandarino has the protester's name from the USEF documentation as well and was fully aware of who the protester was from basically Day 1 so I don't think COTH can be blamed for providing her with that information. I didn't think there was an expectation that USEF was keeping the protester anonymous.

    See ratemyhorsepro where the documentation on the USEF's ruling has been released as well as the report that this protester and another are being added to her lawsuit.
    On your top paragraph: You missed my point a bit. It doesn't matter that Mandarino knows the protest filer's name. In fact, I can see why the USEF might consider it just to reveal that. We should get to see our accusers and yada, yada.

    It's that the accused can retaliate, presumably causing the protester damage for putting that person as a whistle-blower.

    IMO, it shouldn't be wrong in the abstract to ask that rules are enforced. So it also should not be wrong or risky to personally step up and be part of a process about enforcement, either.

    How many of us would file a protest if we knew we were exposing ourselves to prosecution in the courts, the press or among our peers? It makes protesting something-- the formal process of even asking if wrongdoing happened-- a high stakes game.

    So IMO, no one should contribute to that-- not COTH, not Ratemyhorsepro.com, not bystanders who don't feel one way or another about the protester but would, in theory, like a clean sport.

    And on your second paragraph: So Ratemyhorsepro.com published documents that name the protestor as such? The USEF made the same link in a public document?

    Just let me know the organizations to which I should direct my rants, and I'll go there.
    Last edited by mvp; Nov. 13, 2012 at 10:42 PM. Reason: Gotta have some Italics in the mix.
    The armchair saddler
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  20. #140
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    Many thanks.

    You did the right thing, regardless of what other news outlets are doing. Good on ya!
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



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