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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2006
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    2,384

    Default Who pays for damages made by horse when horse shopping?

    While horse shopping, a horse I was looking at broke a standard. The jump was set up poorly with one thin hard to see pole. He went straight through the pole on the down part of the canter stride breaking the standard's base. I didn't set the jump, if that matters and I wasn't on the horse. BUT the owner of the horse is not paying for the (really nice) standard and there may be some other issues because she was kinda kicked out of the barn from the sounds of things. It seems the standard cannot be fixed to "as before" condition.

    For the kicker, I ended up buying the horse (he only knocked down the one pole). So now I am the owner and the horse is still at the same barn until arrangements can be made to pick him up (didn't get kicked out with the owners other horses), so I feel like maybe I am supposed to pay a couple hundred for a standard...



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep. 26, 2010
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    4,098

    Default

    In my opinion, you didn't set the jump, you weren't on the horse and weren't the owner at that time. Therefore, it isn't your problem. If they want to go after someone, it should be the previous owner. If the barn owners go after you I'd tell them as much.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 8, 2008
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    497

    Default

    I kinda figure damage is part of using the fences. Wear and tear and whatnot. It's not like you took an axe to it.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug. 2, 2004
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    Whidbey Is, Wash.
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    Default

    Oh geez.

    Missing information needed for us to make this an appropriate train wreck:
    1. who was riding the horse when said standard was destroyed beyond all attempts to repair?
    1.a. was horse being ridden at all?
    1.b. were you perhaps lunging the horse, free or otherwise?
    2. were you present, trying the horse, and someone else (perhaps the seller) the one who broke the standard while showing the horse on your behalf??
    3. was the horse even going near the standard for any purpose involving you?
    4. have you been asked to replace the standard?
    5. or do you feel some weird obligation to fix the standard just because a horse you now own broke it, before you owned it?

    And just as an aside, if no. 5 is true, then I think he scratched my truck last year. And caused the paint on my house to age beyond repair, and my house needs to be repainted. I'll PM you my address for you to send the check to, thanks.
    Aisha, my heart from 03/06/1986 to 08/22/2008.

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    8 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2008
    Location
    Wellie World
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    315

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJenners View Post
    And just as an aside, if no. 5 is true, then I think he scratched my truck last year. And caused the paint on my house to age beyond repair, and my house needs to be repainted. I'll PM you my address for you to send the check to, thanks.
    hahaha that made my day!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 6, 2003
    Location
    CT
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    3,389

    Default

    I once tried a "Beginner safe" horse, against my better judgement, at a po-dunk farm strewn with debris, ankle deep mud and an owner who wouldn't sit on the horse at all, much less catch it in the field. Said horse was 'quiet quiet quiet', owner had never witnessed it buck under saddle OR in turn out, and had been ridden 'regularly'.

    Long story short, it bucked me off, ran through some debris and caused an 18" long wound on its' flank/ hip. I stayed 3 hours with the vet because owner was useless at restraining horse. I asked vet what his bill was, and would he take some money. After telling me his fee, he told me the bill was going to the owner, and he wouldn't take a dime of my money.

    I tell the owner I'm interested in splitting bill -- afterall, it was half her fault for having the riding area a junk yard, but half MINE for getting dumped.

    She wouldn't hear of it. In fact, her response was "Oh, that round pen should never have been so close to the tractor in the first place."

    Three weeks later: receive haughty call from the owner asking me if I'm "Still interested" in this horse. Ummmmm NO, since the trial ride went so poorly. She snorts and tells me I owe her $50 MORE than what the vet quoted me for his services that day.

    Her rationale : It's the least I can do to 'reimburse her for the extra feed, wormer and shoes she's put on the horse, knowing I was coming to try her'.
    .............
    My long - winded point is, that if you didn't ride the horse, and the facility/ equipment was in disrepair when broken, how can you honestly feel responsible for the cost of the standard? Even though I was the pilot in my situation, I felt no obligation toward the owner.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2006
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    2,384

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJenners View Post
    Oh geez.

    Missing information needed for us to make this an appropriate train wreck:
    1. who was riding the horse when said standard was destroyed beyond all attempts to repair? trainer
    1.a. was horse being ridden at all? yes
    1.b. were you perhaps lunging the horse, free or otherwise? nope
    2. were you present, trying the horse, and someone else (perhaps the seller) the one who broke the standard while showing the horse on your behalf?? seller not present (not local), trainer was presenting horse
    3. was the horse even going near the standard for any purpose involving you? he was supposed to jump the fence so I could evaluate his jumping style
    4. have you been asked to replace the standard? It has been heavily hinted at and I half expect it to show up on the bill for the few days of board I will owe
    5. or do you feel some weird obligation to fix the standard just because a horse you now own broke it, before you owned it? BO seems to think I have inherited the problem instead of her

    And just as an aside, if no. 5 is true, then I think he scratched my truck last year. And caused the paint on my house to age beyond repair, and my house needs to be repainted. I'll PM you my address for you to send the check to, thanks.
    And yes your very funny, but my wallets not laughing

    And I don't think there is any need for train wreck. I'm asking for honest feedback about a situation that is usually covered in a boarding contract.
    Last edited by flyracing; Oct. 27, 2010 at 06:24 AM.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2006
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    2,384

    Default

    Sansena, Thanks for the story

    I just needed some support to see if I should be the one feeling guilty as the BO is going for that. I think she may just be trying to get money from where ever she can because she's been the one dealt the short stick. Sigh... we've all been there (dealt the short stick that is).

    Guess the consensus is I shouldn't worry too much about it (until that bill comes )



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2006
    Posts
    789

    Default

    Its the old owners problem. You were trying a horse with no obligation to buy the horse or to be responsible for the horse. Now if you had been on the horse and being a crazy woman on the horse putting yourself, the horse and eveyone present at risk then I would say yes you pay since your crazy actions contributed to the broken standard. That did not happen so it is the owner that is responsible but if she was in fact paying board that ought to cover maintainence. Part of maintainence is maintaining fences, the property and jumps. Anyhow the main point is this is not your problem. If the horse had been hauled in to use a facility where it did not live then it is a different matter and the owner is still the responsible person....humm...unless you arranged to use the property to trial the horse. If so you would be responsible...in my mind at least.
    Congrats on the horse and I hope you enjoy a great many years with him/her.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug. 4, 2009
    Location
    MD
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    4,073

    Default

    She can write a new standard off her taxes.

    I've never asked for a dime for yes a broken Wing standard or rail or even a ring fence board a horse kicked or new feed tubs broken by a cribber (severa)l or rails ripped off by lay-up boarders. Their horses they break things.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2006
    Location
    NY
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    4,366

    Default

    So you were watching the BO's own trainer ride the horse? She presumably set the jump, rode the horse, and the horse knocked it down, breaking the standard?

    Sounds like an "in-house" problem to me. If anyone should be "charged" it should be the trainer. But realistically, this sort of thing must happen on a regular basis when training, teaching, presenting horses at their farm. So they need to deal with it however they deal with regular maintenance issues.

    How offensive that they are hinting that you should pay for the standard.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2008
    Posts
    7,266

    Default

    Not your problem. As a BO I would not expect you to pay for that. It is a cost of doing business.

    Particularly if you weren't even riding a horse that wasn't even yours at the time! Crazy on the BO's part to expect you to pay it. Though be prepared for the BO to want that $$ before letting you take the horse.

    If the crazy BO tries that, I would probably completely object and inform her that it is ridiculous to expect you to pay for something that someone else's horse broke while someone else was riding it. But if she doesn't back down I would probably take a couple hundred along for negotiation just in case, so I could settle the idiocy and take my new horse home.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2006
    Posts
    8,565

    Default

    I am now wondering if my ottb that I have had for 5 years ever broke something in his young life at the track, back when he was owned by somebody else.

    Might have a bill coming from Keaneland if he kicked a fence post or something at the sale. You know, being the new owner thrice removed and all.




  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb. 4, 2004
    Posts
    2,617

    Default

    Definitely not your responsibility!

    Probably the BO's--stuff gets old and breaks.
    If she feels the trainer was using the equipment recklessly and should contribute, those 2 can fight it out, but putting in on you, as a bystander, is not fair.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
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    down the road from bar.ka
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    Default

    If the seller arranged the appointment and had her trainer show you the horse??? And seller's horse broke the standard with sellers trainer in the irons? And you had no contract, written or otherwise, in place agreeing to any terms or conditions involved in watching sellers trainer ride sellers horse???? You signed no release of liability to watch said horse being ridden by sellers trainer???

    Why on earth would you be responsible????

    I would get the he*l out of Dodge though. Get those arrangements made and get out of that barn. Bad feelings and suspicions are usually just intuition telling you something is amiss. Listen to them and move that horse.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2003
    Location
    Boston Area
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sansena View Post
    Her rationale : It's the least I can do to 'reimburse her for the extra feed, wormer and shoes she's put on the horse, knowing I was coming to try her'.
    ...
    Poor horse! Guess she wouldn't have been fed, wormed or shod otherwise. I hope someone bought her.
    Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
    EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2006
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    Vermont
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    Default

    *So* not your problem.

    But move the horse ASAP.



  18. #18
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    Mar. 9, 2006
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    Lucama, NC
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    Goodness! If someone came and tried a hrose here and broke a standard, oh well thats the cost of doing business! Only if they tried to do something RIDICULOUS would I even consider it! I mean like trying to jump a 3 yr old over a 4'6" fence or something like that (which would never happen as I wouldn't allow it!)



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    10,326

    Default

    I agree with everyone else. You weren't riding the horse, you didn't set the jump, the horse was in no way under your control, you were not the horse's legal owner at the time the incident occured, and in the (EXTREMELY unlikely) it ever made it to small claims, it would be very hard to argue that sort of thing is not a "cost of doing business" risk for a barn that supplies jumps.

    And Sansena--so nice to know the horse only got wormed because you might buy it. Lovely lady. I hope you told her if she wanted the money she was welcome to hire a lawyer and see how far she got.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan. 30, 2010
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    3,526

    Default

    I think I can see the problem; the BO may consider the Previous owner responsible, and may be wanting to put a lien on the horse for payment for the standard. As you now own the horse, it gets complicated. Do you have a boarding agreement on the horse with the BO? What does your purchase agreement say about the horse being free of liens?

    If the horse is still being boarded under the previous owners agreement, the BO may not let the horse leave until the debt is settled.



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