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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post
    I really don't understand what is so great about a country who can't take care of its citizens and would rather they go broke and suffer than share the "wealth". So sad and so selfish.
    Actually that is far from accurate. *I*, for example have NO issue and consider is a moral obligation to assist those in need.

    I also have a HUGE MAJOR issue with being obligated by a government that is wasteful and lacks transparency in directing how those funds should be allotted.

    It is far from being so black and white.


    17 members found this post helpful.

  2. #62
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    Jan. 26, 2010
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    kb--I do not understand why your school district healthcare would go up so much. I work in a school district, and we pay for our healthcare through the school. It's been going up ungodly percentage every year--Obama has nothing to do with it. And it's MORE expensive for me to pay for healthcare that way than out of pocket. I just switched over because it's about a wash with pretax.

    School districts do not get a better deal with the group policy here. From my understanding, it's pretty much always more expensive. Here, if you added on a 25 year old child, you'd still have to pay, it's just that you wold be able to GET it.

    Is your district where the healthcare is "part" of the salary so "paid for" by the district? In mine, our salary looks better than it is because we pay for the healthcare out of it. Either way it''s all the same. We took a 1% pay cut and furlough days, so essentially a 6% pay cut, and art of that goes for increasing healthcare costs--again, nothing to do with Obamacare. It's been going on for a long time.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #63
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    Nov. 20, 2010
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    Upstate New York
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    Old claims adjuster here. Getting back to it soon, also.

    Have observed hundreds of times that if a claimant had sufficient medical coverage to pay all their medical bills, it would significantly reduce the number of lawsuits. Have handled so many cases where they've asked, when our insured was possibly at fault, "if you could just pay the medical bills, that's all I need".

    Because of certain legal principles, you can't pay medical bills a bit at a time from a liability policy. So after awhile, when the claimant has been undergoing lengthy treatment, and doctors and hospitals and collectors are breathing down their necks, and they have no money for prescriptions - individuals who would never have sought out an attorney (or frankly may have been at fault themselves but need to do something), are forced to do so.

    As the OP says, yes, a settlement has to be done at the end. And considering the alleged business interests of those in opposition to Obamacare, it makes no sense that they WOULDN'T want it. If people could just get on with their lives after suffering an accident, there would be a LOT less litigation, and insurance premiums wouldn't be so high. The courts wouldn't be as clogged with cases that have no merit, but were just filed, because someone had to get an attorney to try to get some money for the medical bills - which, of course, often ultimately becomes much more than that.

    No scientific proof. Just an opinion with a bit of experience behind it.
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes


    5 members found this post helpful.

  4. #64
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    Feb. 4, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sobriska View Post
    I'm sorry you have been hurt and have not had proper care.
    But I am not sure what Obamacare has to do with anything?

    You are un-insured. Because it's expensive, and you opted to take your chances rather than find an insurance plan.
    Then you get hurt. Who should pay for your care?
    Me??? I have worked all my life. And struggled to kep insurance, though NEVER needed it till recently. I know I have paid out, over the years, WAY more than my recent broken leg has cost my insurance company.
    But that's what insurance is. A legal gamble really. You chose not to be insured. And now, you are thinking its unfair that you are not getting the same care for next to nothing, as those of us who pay out our hind ends are getting?
    It was NOT a choice. I'm not sure where ya'll think the money to pay for the monthly premiums let alone a huge deductible is supposed to come from?! If I had the money I would absolutely have insurance. I've been more concerned about being able to eat and not be homeless the last two months. What you really don't get is that I want YOUR healthcare to be more affordable for you, too. I pay taxes, too, and contribute to society in a positive way. I don't just want to suck off the government teat, damn the consequences. I just don't want to hurt. I don't understand why this is so unreasonable.

    I'd also like to point out, I'm not even ASKING for free healthcare - the woman who hit me's insurance company will eventually be paying all these costs...


    10 members found this post helpful.

  5. #65
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    Jun. 4, 2002
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    Suffolk, VA
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    Obamacare vs Romneycare differences. Lots of articles out there and lots of conflicting information. This one is a table that lays it out fairly well:

    http://mittromneyandhealthcare.blogs...obamacare.html



  6. #66
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    Oct. 15, 2001
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    I'm constantly shocked at the lack of empathy displayed by people on these boards. "I got mine, and if you can't pay for yours, tough luck." The OP is young, found a job (which is not easy even in the best job markets in the country), has so little money she can't afford a car and is driving a Vespa, and y'all are excoriating her for not paying $250/month for a catastrophic high-deductible plan?

    Just unbelievable. I hope none of you ever end up unemployed, unable to afford health insurance and injured.


    19 members found this post helpful.

  7. #67
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    Aug. 3, 2009
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    I am sad for you and your thoughts. I hope you never have to experience this type of pain, fear and lack hopefulness. No one, I mean no one should go through Life with pain that can be resolved and fix by another's will. $$$ is a poor reason to not use ones will to help anyone in basic life needs

    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Nope, not gonna change my vote. If YOU don't want to pay for your health care, I'm certainly not going to do it.

    Unless we pay for socialized medicine by instituting a 10+% federal sales tax. ESPECIALLY on groceries and other things everyone has to buy so it hits the people getting the care the hardest. The non-payers of federal income tax need to start ponying up big time before I support any more of my money getting taken away for their benefit.

    I have to pay my own way with health care. Find a way to pay yours. I'm sick of being a cash cow because I'm single and plan and other people don't. If you want charity, see the Salvation Army.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  8. #68
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    Obamacare vs Romneycare differences. Lots of articles out there and lots of conflicting information. This one is a table that lays it out fairly well:

    http://mittromneyandhealthcare.blogs...obamacare.html
    The fly in that ointment, this statement is a clue:

    ---"As the above table illustrates, the plan Romney proposed was a much more conservative, business friendly law than what the Democrats passed under President Obama."---

    Many of those for Obamacare are also furiously against anything that seems to be friendly to the evil they consider "business".
    They tend to ignore or don't want to see that "business" is the oil that keeps the economy working.
    "Business" is not an enemy to never let gain an inch and eventually conquer, unless you are against private enterprise, as some on the far left are.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  9. #69
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    Dec. 5, 2001
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    virginia
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    I have a friend in same boat as OP. Her hubby died, no insurance (she stayed home and raised the kids) Her hip replacement from car accident decade ago failed and no one would touch her. She couldn't walk etc etc. And still surgeons would not touch her. She had blood pooling in her leg, no one would touch her. It's just amazing how totally screwed you are in this country if you don't have money or insurance.

    As an aside When I paid out of pocket for health care it was $500 a month with a $2500 deductible.

    The healthcare system in this country is seriously flawed and does need to be fixed. Obamacare is/was a step in that direction. I don't think that it's 100% perfect. But our system now is not working. The reason that there is an average 4hr wait time in the ER is b/c people don't have insurance, dont go to the Dr's when the problem is small and treatable then the problem blossoms into an emergency they go to the ER.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  10. #70
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    Feb. 28, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by wanderlust View Post
    I'm constantly shocked at the lack of empathy displayed by people on these boards.
    Again, I think there is plenty of empathy-it just does not need to come in a government wrapped package.

    If it is actual empathy it would be given FREELY not forced by government.

    Heck just pass a 10% 'empathy tax' and let people determine individually how the money will be spent.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  11. #71
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    May. 4, 2003
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    A state of confusion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    kb--I do not understand why your school district healthcare would go up so much. I work in a school district, and we pay for our healthcare through the school. It's been going up ungodly percentage every year--Obama has nothing to do with it. And it's MORE expensive for me to pay for healthcare that way than out of pocket. I just switched over because it's about a wash with pretax.

    School districts do not get a better deal with the group policy here. From my understanding, it's pretty much always more expensive. Here, if you added on a 25 year old child, you'd still have to pay, it's just that you wold be able to GET it.

    Is your district where the healthcare is "part" of the salary so "paid for" by the district? In mine, our salary looks better than it is because we pay for the healthcare out of it. Either way it''s all the same. We took a 1% pay cut and furlough days, so essentially a 6% pay cut, and art of that goes for increasing healthcare costs--again, nothing to do with Obamacare. It's been going on for a long time.

    The district's contribution towards benefits do not count as salary. The employer contributes a designated PEPM (per employee per month) fee. Let's say that is $500 (so $6,000 annually). The employee pays additional premiums depending on the plan selected and dependents covered. These range from $35 (employee only highest deductible) to $800 a month (family coverage with the lowest deductible). The district's contributions and the employee premiums are put into one "pot" and when medical claims come in, the claims are paid from that "pot."

    The more people you cover, the more the plan is utilized and the more your claims go up. Insurance is about risk....the problem with health insurance is that everyone uses it.

    I tell people all the time...the math just doesn't add up. A recent appendicitis case cost us $800,000 (yep that is correct)....the employee and the district combined paid $7,000 in premium. So to pay for the rest of that claim you are counting on a lot of people on the plan to not use their insurance at all during the year ...and that just doesn't happen.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #72
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    Aug. 31, 2004
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    The Cave of Caerbannog in summer, Castle Aaaargh in winter
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post
    I really don't understand what is so great about a country who can't take care of its citizens and would rather they go broke and suffer than share the "wealth". So sad and so selfish.
    So help me understand. I am selfish for wanting to keep the money I work so hard to earn, but if others want me to give them my money they're not being selfish? How does that work?

    And before you think that sounds entitled, let me be clear--I recently spent nearly 10 months out of work and I'm the primary wage earner in my family. It hurt us a lot and we're still digging out. I worked my tail off to find a job. But had my government made it too easy for me to be unemployed or uninsured maybe I would have taken my time getting back in the workforce. Maybe I would have been like a very close relative of mine who filed for unemployment and took long trips abroad while she was supposedly looking for work. I found out that she filed her weekly claims from another country. And I'm selfish for not wanting to support that kind of behavior? Whether it's for insurance, unemployment benefits, or welfare, I have no trouble supporting those who CAN'T help themselves. But I very much disagree with rewarding those who CHOOSE not to help themselves. They're the selfish ones.

    I like logical people---they provide a nice contrast to the real world.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  13. #73
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    Jul. 29, 2006
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    Colorado- Yee Haw!
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRB View Post
    The healthcare system in this country is seriously flawed and does need to be fixed. Obamacare is/was a step in that direction. I don't think that it's 100% perfect. But our system now is not working. The reason that there is an average 4hr wait time in the ER is b/c people don't have insurance, dont go to the Dr's when the problem is small and treatable then the problem blossoms into an emergency they go to the ER.
    This is my belief too. It may not be perfect, but very few things are when they first start. We know the current system is not. Let's head down that road and tweak it as needed. I find it very risky how much of my livelihood is tied to a single company. I would rather spread my risk and my income tied to a company and my health care with the government. I just hate that I've done everything right and am living a pretty comfortable life and I am still one layoff and a major medical issue away from losing everything. That is so sad.

    Really sick people should be worrying about get healthy. Not losing everything they have worked so hard to build. I think people would recover much quicker in many cases if they didn't have the added stress.

    I have lived in a country with universal health care. It was not perfect and it was not posh. My friend who got sick was in a room with 5 other patients. It was annoying to listen to them moan. She lived through it and was pretty much in the same place when she got out. If she had not been a poor student- she probably would have had private insurance to pay for things like a private room- but she still got the care she needed. I feel terrible when I see people who just need basic medical/ dental care and it is causing so much trouble. It's amazing how bad something can get when you don't get basic care.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  14. #74
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    Feb. 15, 2004
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    Ontario
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    hiddenlake,
    the difference between Canada and the US is that we don't have to worry whether we have a job or not, whether we have insurance or not, we need health care, we get it!
    There will always be abuses in the system but the are not the majority. How would you have managed if you had a major illness/accident in between jobs? We do not worry about that.
    Yes our taxes are higher, but our peace of mind is worth it! We don't have to suffer for weeks not daring to see a doctor because it is going to cost money. We do not get turned down by doctors because we don't have insurance.

    We all pay gladly into the fund. Our government does not tell us who we can see, what procedures we can have, etc. You can still have your own little pile of money under your mattress, but at least, we are taken care of!

    No matter how much you manage to keep of your money, and pay in premiums and co-pay, you may still be wiped out financially...


    9 members found this post helpful.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Mar. 23, 2005
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    SF Bay Area
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    2,814

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    Here are a couple of other Romneycare/Obamacare comparisons, with a bit more emphasis on content rather than process.

    http://www.diffen.com/difference/Oba..._vs_Romneycare

    http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/heal...are_which.html



  16. #76
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    Mar. 3, 2010
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    I have a few Canadian friends who have come to the US for medical procedures or testing because the wait time in Canada was at least 10 months to a year. It can't be THAT great.

    I don't think they should be able to take your home and car and basic needs due to health care costs. Catastrophic costs. Too much stress.

    I also don't think someone who buys a $2500 flat screen TV and always has the latest phone needs anyone to pay their health care. It is a choice.

    And OP you did do something wrong. YOU didn't make health care a priority. You made where you work and what you do a priority. Great choice, really, unless you get hurt. I must be crazy because I worked TWO jobs and went to school FULL time. #%**@ing crazy would have been NOT having health care.

    Honestly, I could feel more empathy had you said "Wow! I screwed up! I should have made it a priority but didn't and look at the mess I am in! Can you help?" I would have suggested you get a paypal account to which we could donate.
    “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
    ? Albert Einstein


    9 members found this post helpful.

  17. #77
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    Aug. 14, 2012
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    159

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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post
    I really don't understand what is so great about a country who can't take care of its citizens and would rather they go broke and suffer than share the "wealth". So sad and so selfish.
    There are many Americans that disagree with our current health care system and want to see it changed. Unfortunately smart, serious conversations about the topic and OBomneyCare (not a typo) are prevented by hysterical conversations about death squads and by ignorant remarks like 'buy your own insurance, I buy my own and I'm not paying for yours". There are numerous problems with the current US healthcare system and it will take smart compromisers that are not swayed by political dramas to solve it. It will also take a concerted effort from the silent majority to no longer be influenced by fear-mongering power brokers.

    Here's a hard reality: when the uninsured receive their primary care via an emergency room it increases the costs of all of our insurance. We are already paying for the uninsured, and we are paying more because no one receives preventative care in an ER.

    When I was unemployed (at the worst point of the recession) I was paying over $600/mo for COBRA insurance. $600! And I'm healthy. I was lucky that I had savings that I ultimately decimated during that time so that I could stay current on my mortgage, my horse's board, car insurance, etc until I had a job again.

    Here's another thing that Americans need to consider (probably on a state-by-state level): tort reform. Health care costs are driven ever higher by malpractice insurance coverage for doctors. I know a surgeon that was named in a lawsuit for a surgery when he did not participate in it. He was affiliated with the operating surgeon and had walked in the OR but never touched the patient...when the patient sued the one surgeon they sued everyone - including a physicians assistant. And then there's this other kicker, the malpractice insurance company will immediately start calculating if it's cheaper to settle or fight. It's normally cheaper to settle even if no wrong has been done...who ultimately pays these costs? We do! The medical practices try to pass the costs of their outrageous costs of malpractice insurance through their fees for service which are negotiated with our medical insurance companies.

    These are not simple problems and the best solutions will not be perfect - but we're a long way from perfect with our current system.

    Wow, didn't realize I was pulling out a soapbox when I started typing.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2006
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    Maine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sobriska View Post
    I'm sorry you have been hurt and have not had proper care.
    But I am not sure what Obamacare has to do with anything?

    You are un-insured. Because it's expensive, and you opted to take your chances rather than find an insurance plan.
    Then you get hurt. Who should pay for your care?
    Me??? I have worked all my life. And struggled to kep insurance, though NEVER needed it till recently. I know I have paid out, over the years, WAY more than my recent broken leg has cost my insurance company.
    But that's what insurance is. A legal gamble really. You chose not to be insured. And now, you are thinking its unfair that you are not getting the same care for next to nothing, as those of us who pay out our hind ends are getting?
    At 22 I worked in the equine industry an intern in farm management for a university. I made a whopping 15k per year. But, I still budgeted and paid for my owner private insurance at $160 per month because I recognized the necessity of having health insurance. Sine this was in 1999, $250 per month for an indiviudal policy seems reasonable. Having my own policy was vital since I later needed knee surgery the same year.

    I don't know the answer for the auto insurance. When I was in an accident ddicent a few years ago, the hopsital billed my insurance (auto) directly. More recently, the bills were submitted to my health insurance and then forwarded to my auto insurance

    I also agree with the poster who said that if we are to have nationally funded health care that it needs to come off of something other than income tax, and instead come from taxes that all are paying. Whether it be gas tax or groceries. But with just barely more than half of the population actually paying federal income tax, to put the cost burden of health insurance on to that portion of the population alone seems to me to be something that is not sustainable long term.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  19. #79
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    Aug. 31, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post
    hiddenlake,
    the difference between Canada and the US is that we don't have to worry whether we have a job or not, whether we have insurance or not, we need health care, we get it!
    There will always be abuses in the system but the are not the majority. How would you have managed if you had a major illness/accident in between jobs? We do not worry about that.
    Yes our taxes are higher, but our peace of mind is worth it! We don't have to suffer for weeks not daring to see a doctor because it is going to cost money. We do not get turned down by doctors because we don't have insurance.

    We all pay gladly into the fund. Our government does not tell us who we can see, what procedures we can have, etc. You can still have your own little pile of money under your mattress, but at least, we are taken care of!

    No matter how much you manage to keep of your money, and pay in premiums and co-pay, you may still be wiped out financially...
    I have supported about 500 employees in Canada. Approximately a third of them hate your health care system. Just sayin'.

    And knock it off about the pile of money under my mattress--if by "you" you mean me, then that's an immature comment and uncalled for. My "pile of money" is in a jar on my kitchen counter and when I take it out to gloat at my riches it only makes jingling sounds. I already said I'm happy to help those who can't help themselves, and if I truly couldn't help myself I would want someone to be there for me. I'm just saying that the government should encourage people to want to get back on their feet if they can. The two concepts can co-exist--unfortunately they rarely do.

    I am absolutely not against health care reform. WasthatC paid $600 in COBRA, I paid over $1200. My dad's last hospital bill when he died a year ago was over $100K, and that was just the hospital. By the time I got the bills for all his other doctors and assorted hangers-on the costs approached $200K. Much of that was written off but it was still insane.

    So yes it needs work. But Obamacare is not the way to fix what's broken.

    I like logical people---they provide a nice contrast to the real world.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Feb. 15, 2004
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    Ontario
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    You make me laugh when you keep saying you know x Canadians who are not so happy with our system.... but I bet you'd be pretty happy to have it too instead of paying $1000+ every month to an insurance co.

    And, right now, I am in the hospital every day for radiation treatment and one of the usual conversations in the waiting room is how lucky we all are to have our system and not the added stress of paying premiums, risk losing our houses, etc. As many Canadians have said, when it is an emergency, you get the care you need.
    If you complain about pain in your knee but keep playing hockey or ski, well, I guess you can wait...
    I sure would not trade our system for yours. I am glad you are happy paying so much to insurance cos.


    9 members found this post helpful.

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