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  1. #81
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    Mar. 30, 2009
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    FWIW I know from experience that anyone on SSDI can easily get assistance in obtaining a photo ID. When my sister moved from ID to CO she had to get a new ID or she would not be able to get her SSDI and Medicaid. The Social Worker helped her fill out the paperwork and turned it in for her; my sister never left assisted living to get her new ID. She had a CO ID within a month of being here. She is disabled and is not able to drive. I find the argument that disabled people can't get IDs a little silly after seeing how much the social workers can and do take care of.

    I have had a photo ID since I was 9. And my original birth certificate was destroyed in a fire. We were able to obtain a replacement by working with the clerk and recorder for my town.

    I have to have a government issue photo ID to get on base, to work, to cash a check, buy various things (R rated movies, spray paint, cold medicine etc.) and I had to have one to register in high school and college. I understand it can be inconvenient to obtain a photo ID but considering that they are used for so much other than voting it doesn't seem unreasonable to me to require one to vote.

    I agree it is too late to change things for this ellection but don't agree that a photo id requirement is excessive or discriminatory.
    My blog:

    RAWR


    4 members found this post helpful.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Dec. 1, 1999
    Location
    flyover country
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    2,426

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    Quote Originally Posted by frisky View Post
    hosspuller, gnalli, and trakehner-- please prove that there has been a problem with fraudulent voting. I believe that studies have shown that this has NOT been a problem particularly with mail in ballots. Fearmongering. I believe it's more likely that undocumented people and even first generation american voters are less likely to vote at all. Tell me, if this case with acorn is true, did AH, MM or these Somalis actually vote?

    In my state, we have ballot measures put on our ballot. This election, we are voting to legalize marijuana! No joke! In order to get on the ballot, signatures of supporters are collected. Even these signatures go through a validating process.

    I did not need to provide proof of ID. I just signed my name on the outside of the ballot.

    I'm not sure if this has gone into effect, but our current Sec of State-- VOTE KATE BROWN-- is making it possible for disabled persons to vote by iPad!

    It's far more likely that you will find fraud and shenanigans in the election office than in the voter.





    Why don't the Dems want to purge the rolls of dead people? Answer me that? I agree it should be carefully done, but it needs to be done.
    And on a personal note, I do not trust electronic voting. I keep hearing of places where this year! people are pushing Romney, and getting a vote for Obama! Funny, I won't say it doesn't happen, but it is rare a GOP er is caught doing any of this monkey business. Read your history books, President Johnson stuffed ballot boxes when he was running for Senate with votes from illegal Mexicans. Think it doesn't still happen? Think again!
    One more thing, Do I undrstand that you only vote if you are a citizen? And to GET a citizenship card, you have to speak ENGLISH? So why do the ballots have to come out in so many languages?
    Another killer of threads


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Dec. 29, 1999
    Location
    Harrisburg, PA USA
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    6,776

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    Quote Originally Posted by JanM View Post
    The last two towns I've lived in issued picture ID's to all students higher than elementary school. I don't know if that's valid for voting and ID or not, but it is a picture ID.
    Has to have an expiration date. So all the student picture IDs, employer photo IDs, and many other photo IDs are not valid for voting under the new law. The ID MUST have an expiration date.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Apr. 25, 2011
    Posts
    856

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    Limiting early voting has certainly created a mess. Long lines, frustrated voters, polls closing......Scott is not too popular...but that's not voter suppression either, is it?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Oct. 8, 2002
    Location
    Maryland
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    10,383

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    Quote Originally Posted by hastyreply View Post
    I would like to see the numbers of people who do actually vote who fall into these groups who can not get an ID. I guess voter fraud doesn't really matter.
    Well, technically, it doesn't really.

    I'm not saying it's OK to commit vote/election fraud, but isn't it not the problem some have made it out to be? There have been lots of rumors and myths and stories about it but it seems the attempts to cut down on voter fraud have made things much more difficult and may negatively affect more peoples' votes than the very few instances of voter fraud to begin with.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...936167586.html

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...ost_none_.html

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...542_story.html

    I mean, if you look at the types of confirmed voter fraud, having photo ID is only going to help catch people out in a minority of cases. It may actually make voting more difficult for more people than it would "catch"

    Look at the debacle in Texas with clearing the rolls of "dead voters" - if you happen to have the same name and live in the same county as someone who's on the SS death list, have fun proving you are alive in order to vote!

    http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se...cal&id=8806956

    Again, making voting more problematic for many MORE people than it might have "caught out" using names of the dead to cast extra votes.

    I do think it's a good idea for everyone to have some form of photo ID. But there are a lot of people for whom getting to the DMV is an actual problem, or who have used other, non-photo cards for ID (perhaps an insurance card, SS Card, etc) for quite some time. People who don't drive and aren't in school of any kind mostly don't have a photo ID, and since you need to go somewhere official to do it, it really can be hard to get one.
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Jul. 20, 1999
    Location
    CA
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    3,263



  7. #87
    Join Date
    Dec. 29, 1999
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    Harrisburg, PA USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by gully's pilot View Post
    I've almost never met a person who couldn't come up with a photo ID of some type, relatively easily. Birth certificates are another matter--those can be difficult. But photo IDs are pretty easy.

    Most of the people ranting about the poor disenfranchised voters don't have a clue. You have to have ID to get social security, food stamps, library books...it's not going to keep anyone from voting.
    Again, it's not just "some type of photo ID." It's a photo ID with an expiration date. There's a difference. Students and military and a lot of workers have photo IDs. These photo IDs are NOT valid for voting. Agree that the birth certificates are another matter. You most certainly do not need a photo ID with an expiration date to get a library card.

    Even Texas fer cryin' out loud, had the court decree that the ONLY reason the voter id law was enacted was to disenfranchise the poor and they threw it out. Same in SC. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1834299.html

    And these people saying swarms of fake voters will come by the busload to vote. With no ID we cannot stop them!! Oy. Where I vote you walk in and they check you against the rolls of registered voters. You have to be legitimately registered or no vote. Then, you have to sign in and your signature has to match the signature right there. Voter fraud is going to happen with tampering with the electronic system. It's not going to happen by swarms of poor people fake voting.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2004
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    7,023

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    Funny how the voting machines don't log Romney when the voter hits Obama....only reports the other way and in several states.

    Sen. Moran's son caught on tape suggesting best ways to commit voter fraud.

    Al Franken amazingly finding votes, enough to win.

    Mentally handicapped/retarded adults telling their parents, "I voted".

    Busloads of Ohio Somali's who don't speak english being hauled to vote (have to sprecken english to get citizenship) and only a Dem there to tell them how to vote.

    Lots of fraud.
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"


    4 members found this post helpful.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2002
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
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    I don't know that people really think critically about the actual necessity of presenting a photo ID at polls. Look at it this way:

    Is voter fraud really a problem when people vote in person? Has it been proven that there is an issue with people assuming fake identities, showing up at polls and voting under assumed identities? Will voter ID laws stop this from occurring?

    When voter fraud occurs, it occurs largely with write-in ballots. This is when you hear about ballots being cast for dead people, ballots being cast for unregistered voters, etc. Even the most stringent of voter ID laws is not going to present a solution to this problem, as casting a write in ballots will not require presenting a photo ID.

    Further, in considering passing laws that require the presentation of a photo ID at in person polls, if such legislation prevents 10 or 20 cases of voter fraud (particularly considering, again, that a huge majority of documented cases of voter fraud do NOT take place at in person polls), but makes voting difficult or impossible for 100 or 1000 otherwise eligible voters, is the legislation worthwhile?
    Here today, gone tomorrow...


    7 members found this post helpful.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Oct. 8, 2002
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    Maryland
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchFrytheEqHorse View Post
    Further, in considering passing laws that require the presentation of a photo ID at in person polls, if such legislation prevents 10 or 20 cases of voter fraud (particularly considering, again, that a huge majority of documented cases of voter fraud do NOT take place at in person polls), but makes voting difficult or impossible for 100 or 1000 otherwise eligible voters, is the legislation worthwhile?

    Exactly what I was trying to get at, but much more succinct. thanks!
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2006
    Location
    Larkspur, Colo.
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    5,346

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    I wasn't going to get involved an any politically charged discussions, but this is the actual information on voter ID laws, from the NCSL. I, too, enjoyed the Sarah Silverman video, but it is merely an entertaining piece of propaganda.

    Please familiarize yourself with the actual laws, as summarized here:
    http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-ele.../voter-id.aspx

    Specifically, note that for 2012, only four states have strict photo ID laws in place: Georgia, Indiana, Kansas and Tennessee.

    Then READ, don't guess, the specific ID requirements and the exemptions, as well as allowances for provisional ballots.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Apr. 11, 2001
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    Tennessee
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    Sometimes when you live in a democracy participating in that democracy might be inconvenient. I'm sure the many men and women who have lost their lives in the line of duty while protecting that democracy found that inconvenient too.

    Voter fraud is real and it is significant.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  13. #93
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    Sep. 24, 2004
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    Piedmont Triad, North Carolina
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    2,760

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post

    And these people saying swarms of fake voters will come by the busload to vote. With no ID we cannot stop them!! Oy. Where I vote you walk in and they check you against the rolls of registered voters. You have to be legitimately registered or no vote. Then, you have to sign in and your signature has to match the signature right there. Voter fraud is going to happen with tampering with the electronic system. It's not going to happen by swarms of poor people fake voting.
    Perhaps in your state there are no swarms of stolen votes... And not only "Poor" people, as you state.

    My state does not check signature cards. There was no safe guard against me voting for my confined neighbor. I know she is not going to vote.

    213 votes passed Obamacare !!! (see my previous post) Three bus loads of stolen votes.

    Rigging an election machine requires extrordinary skill and access. Three bus loads of stolen votes only requires a few willing people and a telephone book, in my state. Not a lot of skill or money.



  14. #94
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    Apr. 25, 2011
    Posts
    856

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    Fox’s Kilmeade: ‘The best thing’ poll watchers can do is ‘intimidate people’



    Big hand for "Truth the Vote" suppression!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Dec. 29, 1999
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    Harrisburg, PA USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by subk View Post
    Voter fraud is real and it is significant.
    Where?

    Not in PA. Even the Republicans who instituted the law and the judge who upheld it, said that there has not been a problem with voter fraud in Pennsylvania. So, back up your statement, please, with incidents of voter fraud that a photo ID would've prevented.

    The issues in FL were "you can't vote because you're a felon," because some people had a name like James Smith and there are felons with that name. Did not good to say "I'm not that James Smith." Yeah, that kind of fraud exists. But what kind of fraud has happened that a photo ID w/expiration date would have prevented?


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #96
    Join Date
    May. 17, 2010
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    Where humidity isn't just a word, it's a way of life.
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    913

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    Where?

    Not in PA. Even the Republicans who instituted the law and the judge who upheld it, said that there has not been a problem with voter fraud in Pennsylvania. So, back up your statement, please, with incidents of voter fraud that a photo ID would've prevented.

    The issues in FL were "you can't vote because you're a felon," because some people had a name like James Smith and there are felons with that name. Did not good to say "I'm not that James Smith." Yeah, that kind of fraud exists. But what kind of fraud has happened that a photo ID w/expiration date would have prevented?
    Memphis, TN and areas in MS have had voter fraud including felons, dead people, those not in the district, etc.

    Search for Ophelia Ford; not the worst of the cases, but quite the .....interesting.....personality.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #97
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    Apr. 25, 2011
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    856

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    Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law:
    Summary

    * Fraud by individual voters is both irrational and extremely rare.
    * Many vivid anecdotes of purported voter fraud have been proven false or do not demonstrate fraud.
    * Voter fraud is often conflated with other forms of election misconduct.
    * Raising the unsubstantiated specter of mass voter fraud suits a particular policy agenda.
    * Claims of voter fraud should be carefully tested before they become the basis for action.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2007
    Location
    Burbank, California
    Posts
    721

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    In California, if you are receiving any kind of aid at all, food stamps, Medi Cal, whatever - you have to have a state issued photo ID.

    More than once I have gone to vote, and someone had already voted for me. I live in Los Angeles County, and we have a LOT of people living here. I then had to produce my photo ID and fill out a provisional ballot. Who knows if my votes were counted those years?

    Maybe the rule doesn't have to be a government issued ID, but there needs to be something - a library card, student ID, military ID, piece of mail - I don't have the solution, but I know there has to be something between no verification of identity at all and say, having a valid passport (which is probably the most expensive to obtain).
    "Look, I'm trying not to test the durability of the arena with my face!" (Because only GM can do that.)



  19. #99
    Join Date
    Apr. 11, 2001
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    Tennessee
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    Where?
    Virginia.

    Last week Representative Jim Moran's Campaign Field Director was caught on camera approving a plan to cast ballots in the name of 100 voters who were registered but rarely voted. He was fired and is the current subject of a police investigation. The Field Director is Patrick Moran, the representative's son.

    Google it if you want links. The story was covered by several large media outlets across the country.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2007
    Location
    NY
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    5,024

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    Quote Originally Posted by Applecore View Post
    Or what if there is a major natural disaster right before voting and you're lucky to hastily evacuate, but your drivers license, passport, social security card and other documents are either inaccessible or waterlogged or burned in a house fire.

    Should you still be allowed to vote?

    Surprised no one has brought this up in light of recent events . . .
    Provisional ballot voting "I live at xxx, NY" and you can vote outside your normal district if you are from a federal disaster county (westchester, Long Island and New York county). This was announced today at 5 pm.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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