If a guy treated ME like this, I would be G-O-N-E.
It's not about his actual feelings with regard to me versus his dog, for example. I know what it is to be pretty much in love with a pet. But if he felt the need to throw that in my face? Buh-bye.
Suppose a woman here posted that her boyfriend had no hesitation reminding her that she came in second to his dog? I suspect most of us would advise her to kick his a$$ to the curb tout suite.
Ooooh goodness! I can totally see how my comment could be read this way. I'm so sorry, I revealed something deeply personal without providing the necessary context .
Horses - and how time consuming they can be - are a perpetual bone of contention for me, sadly. Its not about feelings and how deeply one might love their pets... its about someone walking into a persons established life and then demanding they change. Whether its a hobby, or pet, or obligation like seeing their mom every day at 4, or whatever...
Consider your theoretical "woman" were to move in with boyfriend of several months who has owned dog for many years prior to meeting woman. Woman lives with boyfriend for a few months and then decides dog is taking up too much time and demands it should go. Boyfriend and dog were a happy entity that woman willingly walked into. Woman knew the deal and said yes anyhow. What would "we" advise then?
Horses are incredible drains of time, and sometimes emotional energy, more so than your average pet or average hobby. Yes, I do believe horsemanship involves putting the animals needs first. Of course this largely emergency, but goodness, we're talking horses here. They go out of their ways to inconvenience us Mine in particular loff picking holidays or the "worst possible time". Tending to a colic on NY's Eve is "life with horses" for the horsey. But for the non-horsey, it can be a trigger point.
In my own situation, I have had relationships with non-horsey men who underestimate the amount of emotional energy horses require sometimes - which is one thing, and to be expected.... its when they choose to handle their own emotions badly - aka, have a tantrum - that I have no problem reminding them who has seniority.
I hope that made sense, and didn't sound like I'm some horrid person Really I'm not. I might steamroll over people simply because I'm a 'get it done' kinda person (which I fully admit is a bad personality trait and why I jumped into this thread to confess my evil ways), but really I don't set out to be horrible for the sake of being so and I don't advocate flinging this sort of thing in peoples' faces.
Hope that made some sense. Thanks for helping me clarify my thoughts on this.
Originally Posted by candyappy
There have been so many of these threads and you gals just don't seem to get it. It isn't the horses at all. It is you and the overwhelming need to be seen as an equal with men in every single way. You want to call the shots, set the limits, be the alpha in the relationship so you can control things. No wonder most men run without looking back after a few months!
I married in my late 20's and I was self supporting, had 2 horses, and doing it all on my own too. I have a very strong will and can take care of myself. I had trouble finding a man I could respect because it seemed they caved in trying to please me.
Men and women have different roles in a relationship. You must let the man lead. It doesn't mean you are not equal, or under valued as a person. It doesn't mean he makes all the decisions in the relationship either. It also doesn't mean that you have to change your personality in any way , or change your interests.
You can have a husband and a full life with horses, you just need to have some balance. Let the man be a man. If he wanted a relationship with another man he wouldn't be interested in you would he?
I think this is a really interesting comment and illustrates how personal this topic is.
*I* don't feel the need to be equal with men because I am of a generation where I've never felt as if I weren't.
I've never felt a gender vs gender competition. Which is why I think I have a hard time grasping when I'm being emasculating, I simply don't recognize it. I'm not saying I'm not, or I don't have room to improve, or that emasculation is a myth (which, eh, I can see both sides). Its just I personally haven't found the line in the sand where women can't do what men can.
My SO is my best friend too, and I treat him as such. My friends wouldn't have a hissy fit if held the door open for them, or placed their order while they were in the bathroom, so these details tend to fly over my head.
This said, I also must remind myself (and give thanks) that I'm standing on the shoulders of the generations of women that came before me, that paved the road - and paid such a dear price - to make this equality possible. I fully realize that I am blissfully ignorant of what it took to get here.
Last edited by buck22; Nov. 3, 2012 at 11:54 PM.
“I am sorry negativity, I have no time for you. I have far too many positive things to do.”
If you are fortunate enough to meet a man whose mother was a strong personality, I think you have a chance. My DH's mom was amazing- strong, funny, forward, and flippant- so he sees a lot of her in me, and he likes what he sees.
Now I think what strong, professional women sometimes stink at, is compromise- you get used to pushing and making and doing and having it your way, uphill all the time...that maybe you forget how to collaborate, to dwell, to discuss. If it's your way or the highway all the time, well, no man is going to enjoy that- who would?
I think there's a difference between being independent, resourceful, and competent and just being a bossy, egocentric jerkwad. (not saying you are OP)
But seriously...are there men who are intimidated by independent, competent women? Sure. But I think that the time and energy active horse people want to put towards their horse life exceeds that of a "regular" hobby. It's more of a lifestyle. It involves a living, breathing animal. It's not a bike you can park in a garage for a few weeks and ignore and expect to pick back up where you left off.
When I was actively riding, taking lessons and competing, I remember getting in an argument with my then boyfriend over a 3 day weekend he wanted to take. I didn't want to because I didn't want to NOT work my horse for 3 straight days in the middle of show season. I knew it would set us back as that horse had to be worked constantly or she became a handful.
My dedication to the horses really made it hard to nurture a relationship with someone else. Sorry, can't do dinner at 6 because I have to do chores after work. And then well, sorry, I really don't WANT to do diner at that point because I'm going to be dirty and tired and not feel like getting gussied up. Oh yeah and I can't go out Friday because I have to get ready for the show and no, I can't go out Sat night because I have a show all day and who knows when that will be done plus I'll be tired.
That makes it hard to get a good relationship going.
But even if you CAN get a relationship off the ground, if you're going to treat a partner like you'd treat your horse as far as ask, tell, make or have the partner sit in second chair all the time...well, who wants to feel like that?
The egocentric, bossy jerkwad thing is a whole different issue IMHO. People who behave like that are no fun to hang with no matter your relationship. I do think that successful business people, competitive people, etc tend to have more of that creeping in....we have to be very careful to examine our interactions with others and not take over every situation every time or expect to be the primary decision make/priority all the time.
A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.
But it does seem that often a woman's strength often looks appealing, but then is the very thing that some guys eventually go away from.
SO GLAD it's not just me. I'm strong, tough, maybe a little too agressive, but that's what attracted him in the first place ... so he says. Now it's a problem. I'm not changing so we'll see where it ends up.
Don't forget the impression any woman makes when she can handle 1000+ lbs of testosterone fueled animal with nothing but voice and a leadrope. Lots of men can't deal with that. Not to mention we have a bad habit of castrating (literally) lots of the critters we deal with. That could be damaging to a human male's psyche.
When you've been falling/bailing off horses for 40 years, you're really good at it!
Two of my close friends who are professional horsewomen as well as myself are all married to foreigners. I made a conscious decision a few years ago not to date another American man. I was well content to remain alone forever - I just couldn't stand that entitlement "rawr I am a man" attitude a lot of American men have. Flame suit on! My Aussie husband (the only Aussie who doesn't event he likes to say) and my two close friends Dutch husbands are all supportive as hell and very ok with women being self-sufficient, independent and handling our own stuff. Anecdotal I know, but there's a huge backlog of culture weighing down on an independent woman's head in this country.
So Trakehner, from a man's point of view, what does make a man feel emasculated, so to speak? You've come here to tell many people how wrong they are . . . but what about telling the man's side of the story? Be helpful instead of . . . well, not helpful.
Gee, it's tough when a male disagrees with the common group think and labels applied to all males.
I don't believe the vast majority of males feel emasculated at all. If you mean Pus##whipped husbands without a backbone...I've seen enough of them, but they're not emasculated, they're gutless and are tired of being insulted and nagged by their significant others. They're just as pathetic as the wife beaten down by her abusive husband.
Just because a husband/significant other doesn't nag his partner, doesn't mean she's perfect and there is nothing to complain about. They aren't emasculated, they're abused.
The term "emasculation" reeks of "dime store psychology." The only way I know to accomplish "emasculation" is with a Newberry Knife (or something similar).
There's a difference between being "strong" in one's principles and being an overbearing jerk. Neither is gender exclusive.
Some people choose to be victims. Some people choose to victimize. This, again, has no gender-specific requirement.
If a person has a long history of failed relationships then the person most responsible is likely the one they see in the mirror. None of us can control how others see us; we can only control how we present ourselves. If we constantly have jerks or wimps or abusers for significant others then maybe we should re-evaluate our "significant other selection criteria." Concluding that all members of the opposite sex (or same sex if that's how you float your boat) are jerks or wimps or abusers demonstrates a juvenile personality.
Folks, when you turn 18 you become an adult. Act like one and life will be a lot easier for you.
I am fabulous at failed relationships. I attract crazies of all sorts. So much so that I left the dating world years ago.
I'd love to be in a relationship but really doubt it would work.
I am happy. I like me and my life. If a man can add to it fine, if not I am not interested. For the most part I met men who want want want but lack a give button.
I am not very judgmental but I know I like people who are responsible. I don't drink or smoke and most folks I now do one or both. Doesn't bother me but it seems to bother them. I don't like drama. I know where I end and others begin. I like peace.
Now, what might being a horse person have to do with relationships? I know as a trainer and having dealt with difficult horses over a lifetime, I am aware. Really aware. So I know when you are being dishonest, nervous, frightened etc. You may say one thing but I clearly see something else. Makes the emotions coming at you very intense.
Our reactions have to be quick and spot on or we can be hurt or killed. I think that bleeds over into our people time. We need to focus. Real focus. Our lives depend on it on a daily basis. Our success depends on it at another level.
Also we are always "training" and "fixing" needing to ascertain the weakness and problem to address for success. If that bleeds over I think it would be prickly.
I think men find this challenging at first and then lose interest when they can't "tame" us. Yuck.
Emasculating? Meh, I don't think so. Sounds more like a voluntary victim situation. Can't win, point finger.
If someone showed up that had their own hobbies and were self sufficient and knew about things like respect and boundaries I would take notice.
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
? Albert Einstein