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  1. #141
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    So research is showing that a preference for same sex or opposite sex relationships is/may be hardwired into the brain in some animals either from the get-go or during development. But that says nothing about transgender. Is there research on that?

    I'm finding all this very interesting and educational.

    I grew up in the Freudian era when gays were considered to have been created by smother mothers and distant or hostile fathers. Has that been disproved, or is it still valid for some?

    I still believe most humans are bisexual and which way one ends up has a lot to do with family relations and the surrounding culture during post brith development.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodawn View Post
    I do have concerns about predators who try to PRETEND they're transgendered and enter the bathrooms opportunistically on the prowl for their next prey. Specifically, a male predator, for example, enters the women's washroom pretending to be a transgendered female...
    What I don't understand about this example is that a male predator could presumably enter the women's bathroom simply dressed as a woman. No need to bring transgender into it all, since there's no genital checking in order to enter.
    "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn’t merely train him to be semi-human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming part dog."
    -Edward Hoagland


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #143
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    Well, I would think that it might be difficult for young girls to sort out the good penis from the bad. THe transgender person from the predator. Sorry situation for everyone involved. If they are allowed in their restroom and locker room it is time to homeschool.

    And for those of you suggesting that anyone who doesn't agree with you is ignorant, maybe they are genetically MADE that way.
    “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
    ― Albert Einstein


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    You say this. Show me the scientific proof for your statement.

    I happen to believe that MOST sexual orientation is psychological not physical.
    Sex is biological, but our notions of gender are culturally constructed. Other cultures have third genders (besides "man" and "woman") such as Hijra (people who are male psychologically but take on women's gender roles, dress as women, etc.) in India and "manly-hearted women" (women who identify as male and take on male gender roles and marry women) in some First Nations cultures. The cultural construction of gender is well supported in anthropological literature.

    The point, as I see it, is that because different cultures around the world have many different notions of "normal" gender, humans are probably NOT genetically programmed to fit into the customary either/or western system.

    To the topic at hand, I am not really personally comfortable with seeing ANY stranger's genitals out there in the open. I believe common etiquette is you change quickly and discreetly and if you're hanging out, you're covered up by clothes, a towel or a swimsuit!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsefaerie View Post
    Well, I would think that it might be difficult for young girls to sort out the good penis from the bad.
    I think many women have that problem, regardless of their age, and it probably doesn't get any easier for them as time marches on.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!


    9 members found this post helpful.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsefaerie View Post
    Well, I would think that it might be difficult for young girls to sort out the good penis from the bad. ...
    At my age, there is no such thing as a bad penis.


    13 members found this post helpful.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by klmck63 View Post
    To the topic at hand, I am not really personally comfortable with seeing ANY stranger's genitals out there in the open. I believe common etiquette is you change quickly and discreetly and if you're hanging out, you're covered up by clothes, a towel or a swimsuit!
    That's how I feel! Really don't care about gender when it comes to that. Even in a sauna, I would feel uncomfortable seeing someone sans clothing.
    I've heard there's more to life than an FEI tent and hotel rooms, so I'm trying it.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #148
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    This is the problem, adults that abuse children "teach" their victims that everything is ok by showing nudity and progressing to porn. The young victims are taught it is ok for the abuser to do things because everyone else does it. Parents and guardians have the responsibilty for their kids well-being.

    When in doubt kids should be protected, JMO

    Children and adults should have separated dressing rooms. Let the kids be kids. Keep them away from adult humor, comments, bodies, etc while they are mentally and emotionally maturing.

    Teens and younger kids are not miniature adults. They are kids who are still processing all that is around them. Last I heard, from someone teaching at a service academy, studies show humans are still mentally maturing into their 24th year.

    Adults with adults, kids with kids.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


    5 members found this post helpful.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by nasalberry View Post
    At my age, there is no such thing as a bad penis.
    Thanks for the giggle
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by fooler View Post
    This is the problem, adults that abuse children "teach" their victims that everything is ok by showing nudity and progressing to porn. The young victims are taught it is ok for the abuser to do things because everyone else does it. Parents and guardians have the responsibilty for their kids well-being.

    When in doubt kids should be protected, JMO

    Children and adults should have separated dressing rooms. Let the kids be kids. Keep them away from adult humor, comments, bodies, etc while they are mentally and emotionally maturing.

    Teens and younger kids are not miniature adults. They are kids who are still processing all that is around them. Last I heard, from someone teaching at a service academy, studies show humans are still mentally maturing into their 24th year.

    Adults with adults, kids with kids.

    Agreed!
    The Knotted Pony

    Proud and upstanding member of the Snort and Blow Clique.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #151
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    Nov. 13, 2002
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    So under this policy either no kids could use a gym locker room/bathroom, a university locker room/bathroom (in my area lost of high use college facilities for short or long term training), the locker room at a swim or beach club, any public recreational facility bathroom/locker room, and no boys could use a public bathroom ever because they might see a penis if someone is using the urinal? Or is the plan to ban all the adults from using these facilities?
    i am just trying to figure out the logistics of your minors and adults should never space if they might see body parts or genitals regardless of the gender of either
    There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.(Churchill)


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  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by bambam View Post
    So under this policy either no kids could use a gym locker room/bathroom, a university locker room/bathroom (in my area lost of high use college facilities for short or long term training), the locker room at a swim or beach club, any public recreational facility bathroom/locker room, and no boys could use a public bathroom ever because they might see a penis if someone is using the urinal? Or is the plan to ban all the adults from using these facilities?
    i am just trying to figure out the logistics of your minors and adults should never space if they might see body parts or genitals regardless of the gender of either
    I don't know if you have kids or are around kids. They are naturally curious and for the most part open minded. Plus some are little flashers, like one of my nieces at age 5.
    Now most adults understand this and make adjustments for the kids. But there are those, think Sandusky, who take advantage of and abuse kids.
    Kids will look and explore body parts, very natural, with each other. IMO that is ok. However there are adults who will take advantage of that natural curiosity in an abusive manner. That is why I believe kids and adults should be in separate areas.

    Separation can be maintained by scheduling different times, dividing the area and others brighter than me can come up with better ideas.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim



  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by fooler View Post
    Kids will look and explore body parts, very natural, with each other. IMO that is ok. However there are adults who will take advantage of that natural curiosity in an abusive manner. That is why I believe kids and adults should be in separate areas.
    You do know that there are children who abuse other children, right?

    Personally, I'd rather take my son into a co-ed locker room with me and a variety of naked men and women and children than send him alone into a locker room full of unsupervised kids.
    "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn’t merely train him to be semi-human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming part dog."
    -Edward Hoagland


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayside View Post
    You do know that there are children who abuse other children, right?
    This is very true... I'm pretty much a chameleon at school/in the locker room (girls only) and have been called a fat-a$$ among other... things. And I certainly do not let my genitals hang out.
    Proud member of the COTH Junior (and Junior-at-Heart!) clique!



  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayside View Post
    You do know that there are children who abuse other children, right?

    Personally, I'd rather take my son into a co-ed locker room with me and a variety of naked men and women and children than send him alone into a locker room full of unsupervised kids.
    There are days that I really wonder about people.
    Let me make myself clear. There should always be some sort of supervision of kids. Either roaming through the area, like when I was a kid back in the dark ages, or just outside so they can step in if it gets too quiet or too noisy.

    Any how you are the parent of your child and are responsible for making such decisions for yours. It would definitely bother me if I found out my child was sharing showers and locker room space with adults. It is questionable if I am there, totally not ok if I am not there.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim



  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by fooler View Post
    Any how you are the parent of your child and are responsible for making such decisions for yours.
    And you for yours. I strongly suspect in this case that our opinions are being swayed in different directions by our own life experiences. Or at least mine is. Out of the people who have been willing to talk with me about being molested/raped/sexually assaulted as children, the vast majority of the perpetrators in those personal accounts have been males between 8 and 15 years of age. That's anecdotal and may not be the norm overall, but it's certainly a large enough sample size that I'm not about to assume that other children are automatically safe company.

    ETA: I looked up some numbers and according to a 2004 study "Juveniles are 36% of all sex offenders who victimize children."
    Last edited by Wayside; Nov. 3, 2012 at 12:30 AM.
    "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn’t merely train him to be semi-human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming part dog."
    -Edward Hoagland



  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayside View Post
    And you for yours. I strongly suspect in this case that our opinions are being swayed in different directions by our own life experiences. Or at least mine is. Out of the people who have been willing to talk with me about being molested/raped/sexually assaulted as children, the vast majority of the perpetrators in those personal accounts have been males between 8 and 15 years of age. That's anecdotal and may not be the norm overall, but it's certainly a large enough sample size that I'm not about to assume that other children are automatically safe company.
    The sad part of all of this is that we can never keep anyone totally safe. Kids are abused everyday by parents, strangers, other kids, trusted family members and trusted adults. So maybe some segregation of ages, with supervision. Such as up to 12/13, up to 16/17, up to 20/21 and all adults. I don't know how many kids really use a locker room before say 8-9 years old. Especially as most kids that age have an aversion to soap and water.
    As I was thinking where this thread was going the thought occurred to me who is really in these locker rooms? As in what age groups, what kind of activity is bringing different groups to the facility so the people have to shower.
    The only times I have had to use a public shower area was PE as Freshman in HS and a few times at a gym. Now I am not counting the public showers at the beach where you wash the sand salt off before jumping in the motel/hotel pool.
    So am wondering how often are there small kids through adults showering and changing in a locker room. Seems to me that the kidlets would play and leave at a scheduled time to be followed by older kids, then adults. Am thinking after school for kids as opposed to after work for adults.
    Plus if kids are making use of a HS facility or a college facility would it not make common sense to schedule everyone at different times? Just to make it easier to maintain some order? As in have the Pop Warner kids practice earlier than the varsity HS team.
    To put it perspective the up/down, cross rail lesson group is usually schedule for a different time than the 3'6" lesson group. Unless the facility is large enough to have two different lessons rings running.
    Just some thoughts on the matter.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim



  18. #158
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    To OP

    In no way am I implying you friend would do anything improper with a child. I wish her all the best knowing that it is never easy being the "different" one.

    My thought is while children will hear and understand to a point the explanation of her condition, I don't know that they emotionally prepared for her current physical condition. In other words here is an individual who looks like a woman, but then has male parts. Especially tough, IMO, on a girl preparing for puberty. As in when my body changes I will look like that?

    Don't laugh, at age 5 I had it in my head, probably thanks to 3 older brothers, that I would turn into a chicken from chicken pox.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #159
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    Geeze...I can just imagine if I'd seen my first penis at age 6 and it was attached to a woman! I'd be more f**ked up than I already am about gender roles/relationship.

    And YES, most woman will (eventually) see a penis. But in most cases it will be attached to a man.

    Just because you are using the locker room doesn't mean you have to dance around it naked for all to see. Ever heard of a TOWEL, folks?

    Such simple solutions....


    4 members found this post helpful.

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    So research is showing that a preference for same sex or opposite sex relationships is/may be hardwired into the brain in some animals either from the get-go or during development. But that says nothing about transgender. Is there research on that?

    I'm finding all this very interesting and educational.

    I grew up in the Freudian era when gays were considered to have been created by smother mothers and distant or hostile fathers. Has that been disproved, or is it still valid for some?

    I still believe most humans are bisexual and which way one ends up has a lot to do with family relations and the surrounding culture during post brith development.
    They've found that in some transgender people, instead of an "XY" chromosone, they have an "XXY" chromosone. You can also google "Hormonal Wash" theory. It has something to do with the fetus not getting a certain dose of hormones, that tell the brain what gender they are. I'm probably not explaining that well, but the information is out there.



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