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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep. 24, 2010
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    Western NY
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    Default Contemplating gun ownership...

    Had a bit of a scare yesterday, as our neighbor was attacked in her yard in broad daylight by a masked individual who tried to rape her, but had a getaway vehicle pull into our driveway before he got too far Our house and barn were not touched, police searched both before DH could enter.

    We do live in the country, this is very abnormal! Heck, we hardly ever lock our houses or cars (did last night though!). Our house isn't visible from the road, most local people (including one of the Police Officers that cleared our house) don't know a house is at the end of our driveway... and we like it that way. We do keep a 12gauge shotgun under the bed (safety on, no round chambered, in a case) just for the random chance of needing extra home security, but that only helps you if you're near it. We also have a .22 rifle, not really a deterrent.

    I'm comfortable with guns, Army trained on my M16 and a fairly good shot (Sharpshooter and strangely I very rarely miss at 300m). I've shot an M9, once. I'm not thrilled with the idea of having to arm myself on a daily basis as a civilian. I have female friends that have CCPs and carry regularly, one has what I've dubbed "an arsenal" at her house (all in safes, registered, mostly taken out at a range). I would go through all the red tape and make sure my a$$ is covered should I decide to go forward with this notion.

    We do not have a lifestyle that would work to bring a large dog in the mix. Plus, the neighbor yesterday has 4 dogs, 2 of them German Shepherds, that usually are in the yard with her (I don't know why they weren't out, talk about a strange coincidence*shudder*). I've had very minimal combat training waaay back in Basic about 8 years ago and I've got a set of lungs, but with the closest person living 1/2mi away that might not be enough. I'm usually not home alone to often (I'm barely home as it is), but I don't want to be caught with my guard down.


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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr. 10, 2006
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    7,384

    Default

    Holy crap, Heli. Whereabouts in WNY are you? PM me! (PS, saw you picked up Brolio from FL, congrats!!)

    I don't know if a gun would have helped in this instance, if the neighbor was out in her yard and the gun was in the house, kwim?

    I have many family members who have done competitive shooting with both rifles and handguns, and I have thought about learning to shoot and getting a gun. However my husband is very ant-gun...he is British and the *cops* don't even carry guns over there.
    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Packing my bags
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    33,594

    Default

    well, I am not for getting a gun in order to protect oneself. There are too many places you can't carry and what good does it do when you are not with your gun.


    On the other hand *I* own a 9mm.
    I have actually not looked at it much, I know how it works generally, but well, guys dig chicks with guns...I don't think anything else I asked for got bought this quickly

    I like my pistol and like to shoot it - the very few times I get around to.

    In your case? Would you have even strapped the gun on in your front yard?

    In this instance a refresher in the unarmed ways is probably more effective. As I told DH: I am way more dangerous without gun than with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    May. 12, 2000
    Location
    NE TN, USA
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    Default

    In this day and time, being proactive about one's safety is very prudent. Remember, "when seconds count, help is minutes away."

    Here's one excellent place to start: http://www.nrahq.org/rtbav/ . As a bonus, it covers more than just firearm-based protection.
    “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
    John Adams



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb. 25, 2012
    Location
    Montana
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    Default

    I think gun ownership is a great idea!
    If you take a basic NRA intro to pistols firearms class a a refresher, similar to the one my husband teaches, you'd get to shoot a variety of revolvers and semi autos, different calibers and so forth and see what you like. he has a great little Sig .22 that up close and personal can sure ruin someone's day. But to actually be anything that would HELP in personal protection, you have to practice with it and be comfortable with it. World's greatest pistol is only as good as its operator!

    And gun shopping is fun!

    Bummer there aren't a lot of gun shows coming up, as you can get a TON of info there. Not sure how they work in NY. If you come out to MT though we can sure hook you up!!



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
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    19,985

    Default

    Well, we have a gun, for emergencies...as in a horse accident with the vet unable to get here. But, I don't see how owning a gun would have helped your neighbor unless she was packing while out working in the yard.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2003
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    Happily in Canada
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    Default

    One thing that usually comes up in these discussions is that if you have a gun, there is the potential for the perpetrator to take it from you, and use it against you or law enforcement.

    Study results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home.

    A different study, from the Southern Medical Journal, found that a gun in the home is twelve times more likely to result in the death of a household member or visitor than an intruder.
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb. 25, 2012
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    Montana
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    Default

    Actually the sig is very light and could easily be packed around the farm. My husband also has a little 38 that is really light, great for concealed. Im a .45 girl myself, have several but even the little Taurus is a little bulky for concealed. But I also have a Kimber Pepper gel gun I have for work that is very slim, light and could very easily be worn around the farm. you might look in to those as well.

    We live rurally also, where it would take the police a bit to get there, so we are NOT sitting around waiting for them! Hope you get something fun you enjoy shooting!



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
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    Default

    How about asking your local sheriff and see what they suggest?
    I expect that the talk will be about more than just guns.



  10. #10
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    Sep. 30, 2007
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    Default

    To reduce risk of homicide/suicide be sure no one in the household is depressed, psychotic, and/or has access to alcohol/drugs.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2006
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    Eastern WV Panhandle
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    Default

    So OP, did you buy a gun?
    Quote Originally Posted by Blugal View Post
    One thing that usually comes up in these discussions is that if you have a gun, there is the potential for the perpetrator to take it from you, and use it against you or law enforcement.
    Tell ya what - I'll load up a squirt gun with water and you can try to take it from me. We'll see who ends up wetter.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2004
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    6,990

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blugal View Post
    One thing that usually comes up in these discussions is that if you have a gun, there is the potential for the perpetrator to take it from you, and use it against you or law enforcement.

    Study results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home.

    A different study, from the Southern Medical Journal, found that a gun in the home is twelve times more likely to result in the death of a household member or visitor than an intruder.
    These studies are very biased and not accurate. John Lott did what is considered the gold standard of use/ownership of guns by individuals.

    This study's comment: "...twelve times more likely to result in the death of a household member or visitor" did not consider just who the people were. They included criminals, gang members, druggies etc....criminals have other criminals for friends, druggies/gang members hang out with other gang members. The results were very skewed.

    It's not individuals who have the criminals taking their guns, it's the police who have to deal with hands-on with the criminals who tend to get shot by their own guns. Like the 12 year old girl who last week shot a lowlife in her home...when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"



  13. #13
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    Feb. 25, 2012
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    Montana
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trakehner View Post
    These studies are very biased and not accurate. John Lott did what is considered the gold standard of use/ownership of guns by individuals.

    This study's comment: "...twelve times more likely to result in the death of a household member or visitor" did not consider just who the people were. They included criminals, gang members, druggies etc....criminals have other criminals for friends, druggies/gang members hang out with other gang members. The results were very skewed.

    It's not individuals who have the criminals taking their guns, it's the police who have to deal with hands-on with the criminals who tend to get shot by their own guns. Like the 12 year old girl who last week shot a lowlife in her home...when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
    Yes Yes Yes!!



  14. #14
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    Mar. 1, 2003
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    Happily in Canada
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    Default

    I am the first to admit I don't have all the numbers and science. That's why I looked up some studies. Trakehner, I looked up John Lott. There are numerous papers supporting his work and detracting it. I guess it is everyone's choice as to who they want to believe.

    I simply wanted to offer another perspective. I live in a small town in Canada and do not personally know anybody who carries a personal handgun or keeps one for "personal protection." I do know hunters and farmers who keep a shotgun for use on livestock. We seem to have a much different feeling about this issue than many Americans I've spoken to. I prefer our approach.
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng



  15. #15
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    Jul. 11, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blugal View Post
    There are numerous papers supporting his work and detracting it. I guess it is everyone's choice as to who they want to believe....I simply wanted to offer another perspective. I live in a small town in Canada and do not personally know anybody who carries a personal handgun or keeps one for "personal protection."...We seem to have a much different feeling about this issue than many Americans I've spoken to. I prefer our approach.
    Remember, your prospective is from someone who doesn't know anything about the topic...kind've like non-riders telling horseman what they should do (or guys telling women all about abortion....they have opinions, but shouldn't have a say in the matter).

    The studies quoted are from groups who hate guns, gun ownership and don't trust their fellow citizens. Canada doesn't trust it's citizens with guns, neither does England...how sad.
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"



  16. #16
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    Mar. 1, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trakehner View Post
    Remember, your prospective is from someone who doesn't know anything about the topic...
    Well, if the topic is "personal handgun ownerhip" vs. "no personal handgun ownership", then my perspective is from a community, and largely, a country of "no personal handgun ownership." And unlike you, I actually provided some sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trakehner View Post
    Canada doesn't trust it's citizens with guns, neither does England...how sad.
    Now who's speaking about something they don't know anything about?
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng



  17. #17
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    Aug. 2, 2004
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    Whidbey Is, Wash.
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    OP:

    Depending on your household and personal comfort level, I'd recommend something other than a gun. Call the local Sheriff and ask about options. I don't know your state laws, but a small can of a chemical repellent might be more convenient in your situation .

    As you can tell, guns can be very personal and people have strong feelings about them. I can tell you that an unloaded gun and a gun in a safe are just as useful as no gun at all.

    What is more important is your mentality. A warrior mindset will save you in a fight. A gun, knife, mace, etc, won't change your mindset, and in the hands of someone who isn't trained to use it in stressful situations will not change the outcome of the fight, and will be a detriment. Can you picture yourself shooting someone if you feel threatened? Not telling someone you are armed, not pulling it out and pointing it at someone, but actually blowing giant bloody holes in them, repeatedly, until the fight is over? If no, then look elsewhere .

    A potential "victim" who fights back, even a little, is a "survivor" because of a warrior mindset. Not kicking and screaming, but going on the offensive and looking for eyes and other yummy little soft places. A self defense class is a fun place to learn some moves that can make a difference in who the "victim" might be. And I can back this up with video evidence of random Joe-blows, old and young, male and female, who have won the fight against larger, better armed bad guys.
    COTH's official mini-donk enabler

    "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl



  18. #18
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    Mar. 21, 2005
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    michigan
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    I live in a very safe, quiet rural area and I do carry my .38 when I'm out doing chores, etc. My barn is a long distance from the house and when I'm out there by myself at 4:30 in the morning I am not taking the chance of being caught by surprise by an intruder. I do not feel paranoid, I feel prepared. There is a difference. I would rather carry 10,000 times and never need it than not ever carry and need it once.

    I do agree wih TheJenners - do not carry if you are not prepared to shoot to kill. That is a good way to get yourself killed with your own gun.
    Lapeer ... a small drinking town with a farming problem.
    Proud Closet Canterer!


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  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep. 24, 2010
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    Western NY
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    I did want to give an update.

    I have not bought a gun. If I am home alone (more now that I'm unemployed), the doors are locked, both front with a deadbolt and the sliding glass with a wooden wedge. And like most people have mentioned, who carries when they're out gardening? I've discussed this with my trainer and friends, mace is starting to look like the easiest, quickest option (trainer has a CCP, but doesn't carry when she runs, so she bought mace just for running). I'm looking into self defense classes as well (I can't do the Army Combatives class due to a bad back injury). I have not totally dismissed gun ownership at this point, but it's not a priority right now.

    I want to clarify some facts from my OP: 1.) My neighbor(who was attacked) originally had the dogs outside and had just put them in when they were being obnoxious (most likely from the creep hiding in the woods) and 2.) the car in the driveway was NOT an accomplice, but a random stranger that frightened the perp off. Unfortunately, the suspect was let go as there was no physical evidence to link him to this crime and he wore a ski mask so no ID either. This guy had recently gotten out of prison for the same type of crime, he lawyered up as soon as they brought him in for questioning... My nieghbor is doing alright, badly shaken up and bruised. DH and I helped clean her Ithaca shotgun and take some practice shots the weekend of the incident.



  20. #20
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    Jul. 11, 2004
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    I suggest some very strong pepper spray vs. mace. Mace doesn't work on dogs, pepper spray does (well, dogs can be problems too!). Get the spray with the dayglo staining in it....hard to explain why you fluoresce nicely when the police come...and it doesn't wash off for a day or two.
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"



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