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  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by fooler View Post
    At one point during the delivery, the DRs told my late ex-BIL that they didn't know if both could be saved and which one did he want.
    Which one did he want? That's pretty twisted. Why, pray tell, did he get to make that choice?
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


    2 members found this post helpful.

  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    Then please do not hold it up as being the current perspective of the "medical world." It isn't.

    Here is Ron Paul on abortion in the case of rape.
    Good grief - where did anyone state it was the current perspective of the medical world. I noted his general response to a general question in a debate.
    This is an Internet bulletin board, not a court of law.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim



  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by fooler View Post
    You are right, back then, before the age of abortion, both lives were considered important.
    The question was general in nature and his answer was general. I would be interested in his training and opinion of abortion n the case of rape, incest or the woman's well being.

    Personally I would prefer that abortion is rare. That we as a people take more responsibility in our sexual lives.
    And more importantly in my perfect world no one experiences rape or incest.
    You want abortion to be rare? Everyone does. But it has nothing to do with responsibility in sex. Countries with low abortion rates provide birth control and educate people how to use it, and support the mom with long, paid maternity leaves and other methods of support. So that she can keep that baby and not live in poverty.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
    Which one did he want? That's pretty twisted. Why, pray tell, did he get to make that choice?
    They were married at the time,they divorced about 15 years later. Plus it was on an Army base with Army DRs, so they spoke to the husband/father, a Sargent in the Army.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim



  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by fooler View Post
    They were married at the time,they divorced about 15 years later. Plus it was on an Army base with Army DRs, so they spoke to the husband/father, a Sargent in the Army.
    I still think that's pretty sick. If she was unconscious or something, then I sort of get it, but still...the wording is pretty scary.
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #266
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    I don't care if abortion is 'rare' or commonplace. I just want it to be safe, legal, and accessible to all women.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  7. #267
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    Oh, good grief. I am not imposing my religious beliefs on you anymore than you are imposing your non religious beliefs on me! What is the difference?

    You want to justify what someone else believes is murder. I know people who believe that who are NOT religious. Do you just call those folks dumb?

    There are folks who don't agree with you! THere ya have it!

    No one is going to change anyone else's mind!!

    If they would give a rapist rights in a state, I would move. I wonder if that is the case in my state? That would be hell on earth!!!

    I cannot imagine that. It might also give some a reason to murder the woman they rape so that they don't have to pay child support.
    “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
    ? Albert Einstein



  8. #268
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    :Posted by JER:

    Rape is a crime.

    Rape is a crime, according to the laws of all jurisdictions in the US. It is not an act that is tied to religion or to deities or to supernatural belief systems in any way under the law.

    A politician like Mr. Mourdock connects the crime of rape to his religious belief of forcing a woman to bear the child of her rapist. This would be expressed and acted upon by his support for or introduction of legislation that would force his religious belief on women who are victims of the crime of rape.

    This isn't about gifts or evil. It's about respect for our fellow citizens and their right to their own choices and beliefs. It's about holding a rapist, and only the rapist, accountable for his criminal actions.
    That is what I always understood. Until I moved to the State of North Carolina. Apparently, it is legal to rape a woman inside the legal institution of marriage. And, the state does not recognize 'common law' marriage. The state has refused to allow women access to rape kits, and they have refused to allow DNA testing even if the women pay for rape kits and testing of DNA from them.


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  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarEQ View Post
    You want abortion to be rare? Everyone does. But it has nothing to do with responsibility in sex. Countries with low abortion rates provide birth control and educate people how to use it, and support the mom with long, paid maternity leaves and other methods of support. So that she can keep that baby and not live in poverty.
    It has everything to do with responsibility in sex. People should think before engaging in sex.
    Men can wear condoms or have a vasectomy, women need to be responsible with their choice of BC.
    Men should be taught to respect women and our culture does not.
    Women need to be valued more for their brains than their ability to pole dance. Something I say often and loudly.
    The idea that the only good time is to go clubbing and hook up, often leads to unintended consequences.
    Males siring multiple children with multiple women are not men, they are only sperm donors
    Women having multiple children, think octo-mom, are often irresponsible.

    None of the above is stated in any relation to rape or incest. The above is regarding men and women of reasonably sound mind and body.

    Understand I have seen a lot in the pass 50+ decades. A lot of changes and it hasn't been all that we wanted.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim



  10. #270
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    I'm pretty sure Virginia has given rights to some rapists. There was a case a few years ago (maybe a couple of decades), where the woman was raped by her father, had the child and he obtained partial or complete parental rights to the child because 'she was a lesbian'.



  11. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
    I still think that's pretty sick. If she was unconscious or something, then I sort of get it, but still...the wording is pretty scary.
    As far as I know she was unconscious as this was in the day of giving the mom a general so she was not part of the process. By the time the 3rd and last one was born the process had changed and she was awake.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim



  12. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaroquePony View Post
    I'm pretty sure Virginia has given rights to some rapists. There was a case a few years ago (maybe a couple of decades), where the woman was raped by her father, had the child and he obtained partial or complete parental rights to the child because 'she was a lesbian'.
    You are correct. VA does not have any prohibition on the books for custody or visitation in regards to rapists and the children they produce with the women they rape but it is something that the court has to sign off on and it is not a given or automatic right.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!



  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by fooler View Post
    Get ready, I am about to say something different. In 1964 my late sister gave birth to her first child. I was 9. She had a rough pregnancy and they took a lot of X-rays trying to monitor everything. At one point during the delivery, the DRs told my late ex-BIL that they didn't know if both could be saved and which one did he want. He wisely chose my sister. Both survived, until my nephew was diagnosed with leukemia at age 2.5 and died at age 4.

    Life is seldom the black/white or right/wrong world we debate on these boards.
    I fail to see how that disputes what SarEQ posted?
    ---
    They're small hearts.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by fooler View Post
    Good grief - where did anyone state it was the current perspective of the medical world. I noted his general response to a general question in a debate.
    This is an Internet bulletin board, not a court of law.
    Fooler, I am responding to what YOU posted. Let's revisit:

    Dr. Ron Paul in one of many Repulican debates stated that in medical school they were taught that once a woman became pregnant the DR then had two patients. Food for thought.
    You asked and I provided Dr Paul's comment. It gave me pause as I have often wondered about the when it is a fetus a person. The medical world has their own definition. More to think about for me.
    You are indicating here that the "medical world" agrees with Dr. Paul's definition, and noted this when asked for a scientific reason for fetal rights.

    Dr. Paul himself references in the same quote that he is referring to teachings from fifty years ago. That makes this perspective incredibly antiquated.

    Perhaps if you want to "think" more deeply on the subject, it would be better to back up your perspective with actual current medical science, instead of an offhand comment in a debate that references the teachings of half a century ago.
    ---
    They're small hearts.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  15. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    I fail to see how that disputes what SarEQ posted?
    In 1964 the DR spoke to the husband/father as to which life to save in case both would not survive.
    A few years later DH's first wife almost died because 'her' DR put the child's life over hers. Mainly because he did not handle the breech baby properly. Essentially she delivered the baby butt first. And was horribly bruised and damaged.

    SarEQ's DH is taught the mother's life come first, period.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim



  16. #276
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    So... what you're saying is that the medical science in the 60s was lesser than current medical science?
    ---
    They're small hearts.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    Fooler, I am responding to what YOU posted. Let's revisit:





    You are indicating here that the "medical world" agrees with Dr. Paul's definition, and noted this when asked for a scientific reason for fetal rights.

    Dr. Paul himself references in the same quote that he is referring to teachings from fifty years ago. That makes this perspective incredibly antiquated.

    Perhaps if you want to "think" more deeply on the subject, it would be better to back up your perspective with actual current medical science, instead of an offhand comment in a debate that references the teachings of half a century ago.
    So you consider me terribly antiquated at age 58.
    Seriously, in my lifetime I have seen antiquated ideas ignored and later revised. Not everything old is bad, nor is it good. However what is the danger in discussing and reviewing all ideas. I am still reviewing all of this myself. Not to mention the more funerals I attend the more precious life becomes.

    My thoughts, no better and no worse than yours.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim



  18. #278
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    If you were a 58 year old medical textbook, you would certainly be antiquated. If you are a 58 year old human who has kept up with current advances in science and technology and who reads the news, perhaps you would be less antiquated.
    ---
    They're small hearts.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  19. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    So... what you're saying is that the medical science in the 60s was lesser than current medical science?
    This is not a court of law, so drop the lawyer game.

    There have been incredible advances in medical science in the past 50 years and in the 50 years before then.
    My grandmother died after breaking her hip in 1975. My mother, age 90, is being released some 4 weeks after breaking her hip. The main reason Mom is doing so well is the therapy and the surgery after care.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim



  20. #280
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    This is not a court of law, so drop the lawyer game.
    I'm only asking you to clarify the statements that YOU made. That is not an unreasonable request.

    But, I do believe you just perfectly proved my point. If there have been "incredible advances in medical science in the past 50 years" then you cannot hold up a 50 year old teaching as being the viewpoint of the medical community.
    ---
    They're small hearts.


    7 members found this post helpful.

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