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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    They were asking for precise help in the form of USAF tactical aircraft. Yet the White House situation room -- which was receiving this information, much of it in real time, along with the State Dept -- denied help. Why? Because sending warplanes to save lives in Libya did not fit with the 'peaceful Islamic nation' scenario they were promoting, post Gaddafi?

    USAF air support the next day, to fly Obama and his entourage to Las Vegas for a fundraiser, was not a problem.
    Sorry, I can't take this seriously. Libya is more than a few hours flight from DC - seriously doubt that the President's USAF escort could have been sent to save anybody in any reasonable amount of time.

    Here's my problem with this so called "analysis" - it ignores the difficulties and realities surrounding the situation. Realities like geography. We do not exist in a vacuum - our actions on an international stage have international consequences. I don't believe that a complete understanding can be reached through a perusal of your favorite conservative blog. It's more complex than your favorite sound bite.

    Again, if you don't want to vote for President Obama, please don't. If you think it was handled poorly, then by all means, voice your opinion. But let's try to be a little intelligent about discussing such a tragic situation.
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
    Sorry, I can't take this seriously. Libya is more than a few hours flight from DC - seriously doubt that the President's USAF escort could have been sent to save anybody in any reasonable amount of time.

    Here's my problem with this so called "analysis" - it ignores the difficulties and realities surrounding the situation. Realities like geography. We do not exist in a vacuum - our actions on an international stage have international consequences. I don't believe that a complete understanding can be reached through a perusal of your favorite conservative blog. It's more complex than your favorite sound bite.

    Again, if you don't want to vote for President Obama, please don't. If you think it was handled poorly, then by all means, voice your opinion. But let's try to be a little intelligent about discussing such a tragic situation.
    The world does not revolve around BO. Don't YOU understand that the US has bases all around the world as well as naval ships in the Mediterranean? Help could have been launched from any of the sites local to Benghazi and arrive unless than 2 hours. Not to mention there were drones overhead providing same time video to those back in DC.

    BO had to know what was happening. He either chose not to act or was incompetent. I just finished former chairman of joint chiefs of staff book, Hugh Shelton. He states the policy in place for notifying the president of such activity.
    My vote will be against BO.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


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  3. #43
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    SNL. Air support was 2 hours away, not from DC. My husband served his country for 37 years. Included in his itinerary were VietNam, Iraq, Bosnia and Afghanistan. I state that only as background for my opinion. I'm not totally ignorant of how and why and when the military works. 2 highranking commanders have been relieved of their duty. MY opinion is that they were relieved because they were going to send aide contrary to the President's orders. Yes, I believe the President ordered them not to send aide. In all my years associated with the military, I can not think of one single instance that aide would not be rendered in some capacity, if it was warranted. They were watching the video in REALTIME. They KNEW it was a terrorist attack. The Seals gave them the EXACT COORDINANTS of the mortar fire. We have the ability to target objects with pinpoint accuracy.

    The President refuses to answer questions, stating "it's under investigation".

    The questions he refuses to answer do not need to be investigated, he already knows the answers because most of them involve him.

    1. Why was Ambassador Rice sent out with that ridiculous crap about it NOT being a terrorist attack, but attributed to a video. He KNEW that wasn't true because, duh, they were watching in realtime, their was no mob. Yet he continued that ridiculous story for an additional 2 weeks, while on his "fluff tour", i.e. the view, comedy hour and anywhere else he can show his face without being asked hard questions.

    Knowing that 4 Americans were killed and other embassies were being protested and burned, he flew off to Las Vegas for a fund raiser. When he SHOULD have been closed with his national security advisors as all this was still very active. Oh yeah, he's not really interested in national security, as he missed about 50-60% of his daily security briefings, choosing to read them on his ipad. IF, he in fact actually read them.

    2. Who gave the orders to stand down? I believe the only person who has the authority to do that is Obama.

    I could go on for a couple more pages, but it's pretty pointless. Most people with a liberal mindset refuse to look at it objectively anyway. And no, I'm not a righty. I'm an independent with an extremely strong emphasis on fiscal responsibility and national defense. Neither of which we've witnessed under this president.

    This whole scenario is so much worse than Watergate. That was just some stupid bumbled robbery of campaign crap. This involves, national security and Americans dead. As more and more comes out and they start hearings, I believe this will unravel to be one of the worst scandals in modern history. Again, just my opinion. Obama is not fit to be commander-in-chief. Again, my opinion. Along, with I believe, 90% of the American armed forces including all the services.


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  4. #44
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    There is no legitimate logical way to defend Obama at this point on this issue. Until the coverup is broken, the facts all go againt Obama. Perhaps after the election, we will find out more.

    A short version of what we know about Obama is: 1) that he gave military weapons to drug lords in Mexico and got not only our people, including Brian Terry, and Mexican citizens, including about 16 teenagers killed with military weapons that he gave them. We know he was involved because he claimed "executive privilege" and that only applies if he was involved. This was covered up by the American press but Telemundo did get ahold of it; and, 2) that he failed to protect the embassy outpost in Benghazi; a) by failing to provide security there when he was using those funds to make the Vienna embassy "green" with a Chevy Volt charging station and providing security for ambassadors in France and the Carribean); b), by failing to respond at the beginning of the attack while it went on for more than seven hours; and, c) by blatantly lying about it for many days. - not to mention that he falsely blamed a filmmaker, apologized for the US again, and had the filmmaker arrested.

    Both of these are just so bad that nobody who is being honest with himself/herself can justify what Obama has done at this point. He has to start telling the truth and his followers should be demanding that of him.


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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
    Sorry, I can't take this seriously. Libya is more than a few hours flight from DC - seriously doubt that the President's USAF escort could have been sent to save anybody in any reasonable amount of time.

    Here's my problem with this so called "analysis" - it ignores the difficulties and realities surrounding the situation. Realities like geography. We do not exist in a vacuum - our actions on an international stage have international consequences. I don't believe that a complete understanding can be reached through a perusal of your favorite conservative blog. It's more complex than your favorite sound bite.

    Again, if you don't want to vote for President Obama, please don't. If you think it was handled poorly, then by all means, voice your opinion. But let's try to be a little intelligent about discussing such a tragic situation.
    Did you really just imply that air support would have to have been sent from DC????? And telling people to "try to be intelligent"???


    6 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Did you really just imply that air support would have to have been sent from DC????? And telling people to "try to be intelligent"???
    Reading is super hard...

    I was responding to the quote in the blog (I think it was a blog...I quoted it in my post) that said something along the lines of USAF support wasn't sent to Libya, but was used for the President to fly to Vegas, as if the two facts were linked. My point was, those two facts are not in any way related because we wouldn't send air support from DC.

    So no, I didn't imply that. Minnie did.
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyoteco View Post
    There is no legitimate logical way to defend Obama at this point on this issue. Until the coverup is broken, the facts all go againt Obama. Perhaps after the election, we will find out more.

    A short version of what we know about Obama is: 1) that he gave military weapons to drug lords in Mexico and got not only our people, including Brian Terry, and Mexican citizens, including about 16 teenagers killed with military weapons that he gave them.
    A point of correction. The weapons of "Fast and Furious" that were allowed to "walk" across the border by this administration were not "military" The military weapon has full automatic fire. Guns bought in border towns aren't full auto. They may fire the same ammo and look like military issue but are not the same military capable. A 30-30 deer rifle bullet is more powerful than an M16 's.


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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
    Reading is super hard...

    I was responding to the quote in the blog (I think it was a blog...I quoted it in my post) that said something along the lines of USAF support wasn't sent to Libya, but was used for the President to fly to Vegas, as if the two facts were linked. My point was, those two facts are not in any way related because we wouldn't send air support from DC.

    So no, I didn't imply that. Minnie did.
    Minnie didn't. Minnie simply copied and pasted a blog post she read. However, USAF is United States Air Force and has numerous aircraft all over the world. Thus, can operate both in the United States and the mideast and many other places, all at the same time.


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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    Minnie didn't. Minnie simply copied and pasted a blog post she read. However, USAF is United States Air Force and has numerous aircraft all over the world. Thus, can operate both in the United States and the mideast and many other places, all at the same time.
    Yes, I know.

    I'm just saying that the blog you posted made a rather disingenuous connection between two statements regarding USAF support.
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
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    Furthermore, the gun problem is not Obama's fault. Project Gunrunner - the actual name of the ATF program that many people incorrectly assume is Operation Fast and Furious because of bad reporting - was started under the Bush administration and went unchecked well into the Obama administration. F&F was merely the tail-end of the program where it snowballed due to the investigation.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!


    6 members found this post helpful.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
    Furthermore, the gun problem is not Obama's fault. Project Gunrunner - the actual name of the ATF program that many people incorrectly assume is Operation Fast and Furious because of bad reporting - was started under the Bush administration and went unchecked well into the Obama administration. F&F was merely the tail-end of the program where it snowballed due to the investigation.
    That's the way I recall it as well.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  12. #52
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    How funny to read this just after catching up with the Colbert Report.

    He has a funny segment on the Fox News speculation about this.

    It never ceases to amaze me how some folks can whip themselves into a frenzy over "non-facts".


    5 members found this post helpful.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
    Furthermore, the gun problem is not Obama's fault. Project Gunrunner - the actual name of the ATF program that many people incorrectly assume is Operation Fast and Furious because of bad reporting - was started under the Bush administration and went unchecked well into the Obama administration. F&F was merely the tail-end of the program where it snowballed due to the investigation.
    That is simply and completely FALSE. Bush did not start the Fast and Furious program.


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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by hosspuller View Post
    A point of correction. The weapons of "Fast and Furious" that were allowed to "walk" across the border by this administration were not "military" The military weapon has full automatic fire. Guns bought in border towns aren't full auto. They may fire the same ammo and look like military issue but are not the same military capable. A 30-30 deer rifle bullet is more powerful than an M16 's.
    Thanks Hosspuller.

    Still better than the weapons the border guards are allowed to carray and better than the weapons the teenagers had/didn't have.


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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
    Furthermore, the gun problem is not Obama's fault. Project Gunrunner - the actual name of the ATF program that many people incorrectly assume is Operation Fast and Furious because of bad reporting - was started under the Bush administration and went unchecked well into the Obama administration. F&F was merely the tail-end of the program where it snowballed due to the investigation.
    All that I have heard and read indicates the program was scheduled to end, but was continued under the BO administration. With different guidelines than used under Project Gunrunner.
    So BO's administration allowed it to go unchecked and unmonitored or they actively allow it to morph into F&F.
    Either way under his watch and on his record. He could have easily stopped the program.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


    4 members found this post helpful.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    That's the way I recall it as well.
    It is not true. It was a lie put out by Obama's people because they didn't like the truth.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by fooler View Post
    All that I have heard and read indicates the program was scheduled to end, but was continued under the BO administration. With different guidelines than used under Project Gunrunner.
    So BO's administration allowed it to go unchecked and unmonitored or they actively allow it to morph into F&F.
    Either way under his watch and on his record. He could have easily stopped the program.
    Not exactly. Fast and Furious was started in October 2009. Any previous program had been stopped. This is solely Obama's as is Benghazi.


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  18. #58
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    I was pleased to see that CBS News actually broke the story on October 23 with the state dept emails. It would have been just plain criminal to sit on those.

    The fact that it has been almost 2 months since the terrorist attack and the Obama administration still doesn't have any answers for us or for congress or the senators that are asking for it is just unbelievable.

    Something is rotten in Denmark as they say on this one. I watched a feature with Bret Baier on Saturday about the timelines on all of this and all the emails and info that has been released to the media via un-official sources. The only conclusions are either gross incompetence or cover up.

    When the white house situation room is getting a live feed via drone during the attack and special ops teams have been moved into place to help then apparently told to "stand down" then something stinks.

    It may have been too late to help the ambassador but not those two brave seals who against orders to stand down still went into harms way to attempt to rescue Ambassador Stevens. Those two men died in vain as far as I am concerned. Air support could have been put in place in almost no time at all and saved their lives.

    I want the president of the United States to stand in front of the microphone and look into the camera and tell us just who the hell dropped the ball on this one. He owes it to the families of these dead young men.

    Who doesn't put extra security in place on 9/11 at a hot spot embassy post in the middle of hell in the mid-east when they had been basically begging for it for months? Somebody who doesn't give a crap if they live or die, that's who. I just want to know who that someone is! Hillary? Panetta? Obama? Who?
    Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!


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  19. #59
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    Libya forbade the US from having armed security forces at that location. Armed PMCs - which are what the US uses to provide security in dangerous foreign countries these days - are forbidden from operating on Libyan soil and US armed forces are forbidden from being on the ground or in the air above Libya without the consent of the Libyan government. The Benghazi compound was being used for backdoor dealings with the same Islamic militants who attacked it and because of the sensitive nature of the business being conducted there by the US and other regional influences who wanted to use them against Syria, they did not want to press the issue when it came to securing the location and it came back to bite them in the ass. The only security they could put in place were some DSS guys armed with pop guns and some unarmed guards from a security company.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!


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  20. #60
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    Brookes, well said!


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