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  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    Well he didn't start the conflict, did he. The number of US soldiers killed in Afghanistan under Obama is about 1400. You however did not answer my question. Hard to answer though, that one. It's tens of thousands and may be hundreds of thousands.

    Obama gets criticized for staying in and he gets criticized for pulling out. What would make you happy?

    The announcement of the pull-out date probably in reality meant diddly squat. Don't you think the insurgents would have noticed that there are less soldiers around? Maintaining order will be up to the Afghani forces eventually.
    One other quick thing - have you asked any soldiers how they felt about him announcing the pull out date?


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  2. #282
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    A man once defined Hell as a place with no reason and you just dragged us all to hell, Saturday Night Live....
    "Common sense is so rare nowadays, it should be classified as a super power."-Craig Bear Laubscher



  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by alittlegray View Post
    When Obama has 92% of the black vote, you cannot tell me that a good portion of them are voting for him not for his policies but because of his skin color.

    Unbelievable on EITHER side.
    actually, I can. Consider that 88% of black vote went for Kerry in 2004. Did they vote for him because he was black? So traditionally, the black vote is predominantly for the Democrats... So in 2008 4% more voted democrat. That is hardly a "good portion", even if you make the assumption that all of those were because of race only....


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  4. #284
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    So you think that the majority of the black people voted for Obama because of his policies? And the whites that voted for him, no One did it because of his skin color?

    Really.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunny59 View Post
    actually, I can. Consider that 88% of black vote went for Kerry in 2004. Did they vote for him because he was black? So traditionally, the black vote is predominantly for the Democrats... So in 2008 4% more voted democrat. That is hardly a "good portion", even if you make the assumption that all of those were because of race only....


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  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunny59 View Post
    actually, I can. Consider that 88% of black vote went for Kerry in 2004. Did they vote for him because he was black? So traditionally, the black vote is predominantly for the Democrats... So in 2008 4% more voted democrat. That is hardly a "good portion", even if you make the assumption that all of those were because of race only....
    Oh, and I'd be willing to bet that the increase in the black vote for the democratic candidate based on race only was canceled by the number of people that voted against Obama because of race.


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  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by redalter View Post
    So you think that the majority of the black people voted for Obama because of his policies? And the whites that voted for him, no One did it because of his skin color?

    Really.
    Absolutely, did you miss the part about 88% of the black vote going to Kerry? Was that based on color? In recent years, the majority of the black vote goes to the democratic candidate. Why should it be different if the candidate is black?

    Did I say nobody voted based on color? No, I did not. Did I say the majority did not vote based on color? YES. And this goes both ways, for and against.

    Oh, and 90% of the black vote went to Gore.....


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  7. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunny59 View Post
    actually, I can. Consider that 88% of black vote went for Kerry in 2004. Did they vote for him because he was black? So traditionally, the black vote is predominantly for the Democrats... So in 2008 4% more voted democrat. That is hardly a "good portion", even if you make the assumption that all of those were because of race only....
    Just an observation of Presidental voting in this, new for me, state since 2000. So that is 2000, 2004, 2008 and today 2012. The only time I had to stand in a long line was 2008. That was also the only time there were a large number of blacks voting. Normally there are mainly white folks with a few minorities mixed in.
    Actually I loved the turnout in 2008. I am happier with a large voter turnout than with a small turnout. I actually want more people to have a say in who is in office and which measures pass or which ideas are present to the state congress.
    I would rather have my candidate lose in a 50&+ voter turnout than to have my candidate win in a <35% voter turnout.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim



  8. #288
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    Poison gas, including mustard gas. However, Saddam Hussein was not part of the 9/11 attacks.
    Yes, of course. I forgot that Saddam Hussien was a peace loving guy who didn't support those nasty AlQuida terrorists. Terrible that we forced that nice man out of his position helping women and children be REAL citizens of his nation.

    The POINT is that there were WMDs in Iraq, most got buried and some got sold to the highest bidder. The WMDs are why we went in, 9/11 was the catalyst.
    You can call Iraq a scandal/tragedy/whatever you want, but the majority of the men and women who went OVER there do not. Their opinion matters WAY more than yours.
    Sorry to see xtranormal is gone
    For funnies, search youtube for horseyninjawarrior!

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  9. #289
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    Extra Extra! Mondale was apparently Black as he managed to get 91% of the Black voters and we know they vote based on color!

    Interestingly enough, Clinton was the least popular with the Black voters only getting 83%.

    Gore was 90%, Dukakis 89%



  10. #290
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    Nope, and I didn't mean to imply that. but I've seena handful of interviews with people who openly stated that they voted for him because he was black (both black and white), also there were a number of news stories that the black turnout was really high in 08. And even Obama has played to that base (although he is also half white, but that is another thorny path)

    To your point, yup, I'm sure there are a bunch of people who voted against him because he is black and that stinks as much as those who vote for him because he's black.

    Me, I can't stand the policies. By the way, if Colonel West ran, I'd be first in line to vote. Love that guy!!

    By the way, have you ever read Star Parker?



    Quote Originally Posted by sunny59 View Post
    Absolutely, did you miss the part about 88% of the black vote going to Kerry? Was that based on color? In recent years, the majority of the black vote goes to the democratic candidate. Why should it be different if the candidate is black?

    Did I say nobody voted based on color? No, I did not. Did I say the majority did not vote based on color? YES. And this goes both ways, for and against.

    Oh, and 90% of the black vote went to Gore.....


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  11. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    You do realize that Americans still would have died though, right? Even if there had been military personnel there.
    You sure about that? The four dead were not the only Americans on the scene. There is already both testimony and leaked communication that has noted that we had assets on the ground painting the terrorist with lasers for AC-130/MC-130 gunships that were less than 2 hours away and we know that the two former SEALS were killed at least 6 hours after the attack began. We know that the commanding General of these assets was given an order to stand down that could have only come from D.C.--i.e from a small handful of people all of whom would be close to the president. That General has since been relieved of command.

    The problems for Obama are several:
    1) Failure to provide the consulate with adequate security. Although this is a big problem for Clinton since there is all kinds of paper trails that have repeated requests for more security as well as a State Dept meeting less than a month before hand that covered the extent to which al qaeda was active in the area.

    2) Failure to deploy assets while the lives of up to 32 Americans were at risk. The dead were not the only ones at the consulate or safe house at the time of attack, we know of 3 staff members transferred Germany for treatment in the hospital as well as 2 others that were wounded in the safe house attack--funny but the administration has yet to released the number of Americans that were in harms way.)

    3)Failure to secure the consulate after the attack in a timely manner. It was weeks before it was secure and in the mean time CNN reporters were wandering through and one removed Ambassador Steven's diary. What other sensitive documents might have been in the unsecured consulate?

    4)Specifically misleading the public by not confirming the attack was an act of terrorism when we have information that not only did he know but the White House Situation room had live audio of the attack from the Americans who were repeatedly asking for assistance before they were killed and drones capturing video feed--see number 2.

    Anyone think that this would have looked bad on the campaign trail if one of your big talking points is you killed bin Laden?

    grayarabpony, I'm sorry all this bores you.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  12. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by redalter View Post
    Nope, and I didn't mean to imply that. but I've seena handful of interviews with people who openly stated that they voted for him because he was black (both black and white), also there were a number of news stories that the black turnout was really high in 08. And even Obama has played to that base (although he is also half white, but that is another thorny path)

    To your point, yup, I'm sure there are a bunch of people who voted against him because he is black and that stinks as much as those who vote for him because he's black.

    Me, I can't stand the policies. By the way, if Colonel West ran, I'd be first in line to vote. Love that guy!!

    By the way, have you ever read Star Parker?

    Looks like wa can agree then, that some people vote based on race. But certainly it is not the majority and it goes both ways....

    Star Parker is one point of view. And she bases it on her own story. Not saying she's right or wrong, but she is clearly shaped from her personal experiences, as we all are......



  13. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunny59 View Post
    Looks like wa can agree then, that some people vote based on race. But certainly it is not the majority and it goes both ways....

    Star Parker is one point of view. And she bases it on her own story. Not saying she's right or wrong, but she is clearly shaped from her personal experiences, as we all are......
    Sunny59 ... At last, a point we can agree on !!!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by redalter View Post
    Sorry- what question did you ask me?

    I keep forgetting. No matter what happens, it is NOT OBAMAS' FAULT. Just ask him. And if it is his fault, well, Bush was worse.

    Just amazing.

    I think, though what is the worst, is the level of anger from all sides. We're Americans first, right?

    Nope, because every time over the last 4 years I've have heard Obama say "the other guys", "the other side", "vote for revenge", "punish your enemies", it has driven the country further apart. This is a sitting PRESIDENT saying these things.

    And, nope I don't care what senators, and pundits, and congressmen/women Rush, Rachel, etc., etc., have said, it's what the president said. And he should be EVERYONE's president. Not just "his side". So I guess he wants his side to go out and get "revenge".
    Presumably against people like me. The "other side".

    Kind of like what he said to Eric Cantor his FIRST week in office. "Elections have consequences Eric, and I won". How nice for him. And what a great way to start out his relationship. Talk about reaching across the aisle!


    And for what it's worth - white female, highly educated, over $100k in earnings, in a mixed race relationship.

    Voted for Romney this morning. I chose not to vote revenge. i voted for love of country.
    I could not have put it any better than you did. Why can't people understand that this man is not about what is best for America, but what is going to get him time in the spotlight? He is too busy campaigning to do his job, and too busy trying to divide the nation into us/them than trying to fix anything.
    http://community.webshots.com/album/548368465RfewoU[/url]

    She may not have changed the stars from their courses, but she loved a good man, and she rode good horses….author unknown


    5 members found this post helpful.

  15. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunny59 View Post
    Absolutely, did you miss the part about 88% of the black vote going to Kerry? Was that based on color? In recent years, the majority of the black vote goes to the democratic candidate. Why should it be different if the candidate is black?

    Did I say nobody voted based on color? No, I did not. Did I say the majority did not vote based on color? YES. And this goes both ways, for and against.

    Oh, and 90% of the black vote went to Gore.....
    So my point about blacks being part of the Democratic demographic is correct. And if you look at the stats on who young people are most likely to vote for, it is also Democrats. And uneducated people are more likely to vote for a Democrat.
    Last edited by jetsmom; Nov. 6, 2012 at 07:02 PM. Reason: spelling


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  16. #296
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    http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mi...ama-under-bush


    http://antiwar.com/blog/2012/01/23/r...s-under-obama/


    http://errantacademic.wordpress.com/...e-they-killed/


    And for those who want to say more killed under Bush than Obama. Not so much.

    Please note the first source.


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  17. #297
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    One more thing about Benghazi before I go watch the returns.

    All the information about what happened and didn't happen in Benghazi will come to light. We're not digging through the files of a campaign office. When the military farts they do it in triplicate and file it in three separate places. They invented the phrase CYA. So there isn't just a paper trail, there's a super highway of information to be harvested.

    Another problem Obama has is that when you throw the intelligence community under the bus they tend to leak crap. They started using the CYA phrase the week after the military coined it.

    Oh, and that audio live feed of the attack? It didn't just feed to the WH Situation room it was fed to multiple top security sights around the world. Most likely the number of people that listen to it live and heard the discussions and orders numbers into a hundred. Good luck keeping that under wraps.
    Last edited by subk; Nov. 6, 2012 at 07:19 PM. Reason: I can't type worth a damn.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  18. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by hosspuller View Post
    Sunny59 ... At last, a point we can agree on !!!
    LOL, I'm sure there is more than one!



  19. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    So my point about blacks being part of the Democratic demographic is correct. And if you look at the stats on who young people are most likely to vote for, it is also Democrats. And uneducated people are more likely to vote for a Democrat.
    ooh, hooray, you got one thing right! Doesn't mean your argument holds......Yes, the majority of the Black vote is democratic, we've established that. Did you know that the young Black vote has gone more conservative in recent years?

    But you also know I'm not objecting to piecework, I'm objecting to your original statements.

    Your post that the average rioter was young, Black, illiterate, and wants free things was offensive and I still find it so. You have NOT supported this notion. Again, go look at the lists of civil unrest. The are many causes and groups involved.

    Then you come back and say

    avg Obama voter/democrat-Young-check
    ignorant-check- more high school dropouts(see wanting free stuff/don't understand how govt works)
    illiterate-check-(busloads of non english speaking vanned in to vote for him)
    black-check(95% voted for him last time)
    wants free things-check
    my bold, your words.....

    (Oh and non English speaking does not equal illiterate )

    And clearly, this is NOT the average Obama voter. Does it describe some democratic voters? Perhaps, but not likely any more than "racist, ignorant, gun toting, Right wing Christian" describes you average Republican voter. And living where I do, I see quite a few of those, they do exist. I would never describe them as the average republican and I am thankful that they are not..... As I am thankful that those you describe are not the average democrat. Would be a sad thing if either of those things were true. Some folks would have you believe the country is made up of only those two groups. I personally believe there are a lot more reasonable folks in the middle somewhere..... I have no problem with Republicans of reason, I have many R friends.


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  20. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunny59 View Post
    ooh, hooray, you got one thing right! Doesn't mean your argument holds......Yes, the majority of the Black vote is democratic, we've established that. Did you know that the young Black vote has gone more conservative in recent years?

    But you also know I'm not objecting to piecework, I'm objecting to your original statements.

    Your post that the average rioter was young, Black, illiterate, and wants free things was offensive and I still find it so. You have NOT supported this notion. Again, go look at the lists of civil unrest. The are many causes and groups involved.

    Then you come back and say



    my bold, your words.....

    (Oh and non English speaking does not equal illiterate )

    And clearly, this is NOT the average Obama voter. Does it describe some democratic voters? Perhaps, but not likely any more than "racist, ignorant, gun toting, Right wing Christian" describes you average Republican voter. And living where I do, I see quite a few of those, they do exist. I would never describe them as the average republican and I am thankful that they are not..... As I am thankful that those you describe are not the average democrat. Would be a sad thing if either of those things were true. Some folks would have you believe the country is made up of only those two groups. I personally believe there are a lot more reasonable folks in the middle somewhere..... I have no problem with Republicans of reason, I have many R friends.
    Well, see...I actually agree with part of your last paragraph...If someone is a gun enthusiast/NRA member, they most likely will vote Republican. If someone is Right wing Christian, they are more likely to vote Republican. If someone is racist against blacks/minorities they would be more likely to vote Republican. And I'll go one step further and say that the whackos at westboro church, will probably vote repub.
    But whereas I accept that certain groups will most likely vote a certain way, you don't want to admit it.
    And for the record, the race issue was actually started by a liberal, Obama supporter on this thread that brought up riots, and inferred that Repubs were racist thinking that it was blacks that would riot because they were "uppity" (the Obama supporter's words). My comment was initially about when did you last see a bunch of Repubs riot. I don't think there will be widespread rioting if Obama loses, but it wouldn't shock me if there were small pockets of it in LA for instance. But I can pretty much guarantee that if Obama wins, there won't be rioting by Romney supporters.


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