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  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by fish View Post
    I recently heard an NPR program on wind energy which pointed out that the damage done birds by wind turbines is miniscule compared to that done by fossil fuels' large scale destruction of both birds and their habitats-- not to mention our own (e.g. consider what fuel residues in the water did to Marine families at Camp Lejune . Yes, fuel is important, but, IMO, nowhere near as much so as breathable air and potable water).
    I am a wind and solar energy developer, so my view is 1) based on first-hand knowledge of the industry, technology, and siting practices, and also 2) obviously, partisan because I believe strongly the benefits of renewable energy. So, that said:
    The American Bird Conservancy stat cited above (440k killed annually) is on the high end of mortality estimates, and they say this on their own website. More commonly accepted/documented figure is 100-150k annually. That's about 1-2 birds per turbine installed per year, and this is all species, not just eagles and protected migratory birds. No one wants ANY avian fatalities but I think it's important to keep things in perspective. All man-made structures cause bird deaths. I'll take my numbers from the Amer Bird Conserv. website so hopefully folks will accept it as a neutral source and not some industry flack. Birds killed annually (low-high estimates):
    wind turbines 100,000-440,000
    Communications towers 4,000,000- 50,000,000
    Power lines 10,000,000 - 154,000,000
    Roads/vehicles 10,700,000 - 380,000,000
    Urban light 31,158,000
    Glass 100,000,000 - 1,000,000,000
    And this doesn't even cover cars or housecats. Migratory bird act was intended to prevent intentional hunting/trafficking of these birds. Some federal courts, but not all, have extended its scope to include unintentional mortality caused by otherwise legal activities. In practice it's rare for the USFWS to pursue criminal actions for migratory bird deaths, and it's typically only when the company has shown reckless disregard in terms of siting and operational procedures, there's been a history of bird deaths there, and the company has failed to take action recommended by the USFWS field office. In contrast, very early in our windfarm development process, we have done an extensive study of all bird, bat species known to use/migrate thru the area (plus plants, amphibians etc); and we are already working with the USFWS field office, showing them these studies and our site plans and adjusting them accordingly based on their input. And post-construction we do years of bird/bat mortality studies (by independent consultants) and report all findings. With that kind of advance & ongoing cooperation, the agency knows that all efforts have been taken to minimize impact, so they're not gonna prosecute an unintentional bird take.


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  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineAlready View Post
    Honestly, no, I'm not going to waste my time going through your ranty, hyperbole-filled post to point out errors.
    Maybe you ought to try, see where you can go with your try?

    I think Minnie is giving some indigestion before they even have had supper.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    I find it hard to believe that ANYONE can look at the past 3 1/2 years and still want to vote for Obama. He has damaged this country more than any other President I can think of. Makes Carter look like a genius.

    Said he'd be bipartisan.....first words to the Republicans were "elections have consequences and I won". Way to go Prez, that'll sure help you work across the aisle.

    Obamacare pushed through with backroom deals and buyoffs, totally partisan, that no one read. Remember Pelosi...."we have to pass it to see what's in it..." They're STILL trying to read it and STILL finding unseen consequences after 2 years. Has doubled insurance premiums instead of cutting it in half like promised. On a personal note, my insurance will be going up over 300% within the next couple years and not cover what I'm covered for now. Gee, thanks.

    Stimulus? So much fraud and wasted dollars there, and remember we had to borrow the money from China. Helped the companies overseas, though. Here? Not so much. The U.S. economy is doing worse this year and that was worse than the year before. We're sliding downhill and the hill's getting steeper. His policies will only make things worse.

    He has succeeded with his energy policy. He said he'd make coal fired plants so expensive they'd go out of business. Yup. He also said that due to the EPA regulations he'd put in place "energy prices will necessarily skyrocket". Yup. Did that.

    Yes, we're producing more oil and gas, but on PRIVATE lands, not federal. He's cut federal drilling permits by unprecedented percentage. But, while denying permits to American companies, he's helping fund other countries, i.e. Brazil and they too are drilling in the gulf. He likes to spread the wealth around globally.

    If I hear "fair tax, the millionaires and billionaires should pay their fair share" one more time, I think I'll throw up. Increasing the tax on the wealthy does, in fact, cost jobs and the entire amount of tax increase he's proposing will fund the government....wait for it.....about 17 days. He has NO plan for reducing the deficit. It's like he's playing with monopoly money.

    At least he HAS put forth a yearly budget, which is more than you can say for the Harry Reid led Senate. Of course, he couldn't even get one single democratic vote for it. Like I said, no concept of money.

    The congress, on the other hand, has submitted a budget every year and shipped it over to the Senate. The way it's supposed to work is the Senate also proposes a budget and then they work on it back and forth slicing and dicing and rearranging until they come to a consensus to get one passed. That's really hard to do when the Senate leader doesn't put forth a budget to send to the congress and just sticks the congress's proposed budget in a drawer to gather dust. Which he's done for 3 years.

    Foreign policy? My God. We've never been so lightly regarded since before WWI. Our enemies don't fear us and our allies can't trust us. In spite of the Prez saying to Putin "I can be more flexible after the election" (Lord only knows what that means) Putin has pretty much said ef you. No renewal of the Start treaty. Growing more and more hardline and less cooperative all the time. He has ZERO respect for Obama. I'm pretty sure he thinks he's a joke.

    The mideast is a disaster. Benghazi is a crime. The President is a liar. Big lies.
    Is he incompetent? YES most definitely. Benghazi should NOT have happened. The blood of those Americans are on his hands. The ambassador and his aide, due to his incompetence at providing the added security they'd repeatedly requested. The 2 seals, because he refused to send help when asked for.

    Look at the timeline. They watched while the events were unfolding. They KNEW it was a terrorist attack and there was no #*$# video.

    For 2 weeks he and his administration said it was definitely NOT a terrorist attack, that it was a mob protest due to the video. Repeatedly. This was a lie. He knew it was a lie. Why?

    He said as information came in it was released to the American public. Another lie.

    He said he called in the sec of defense and gen Dempsey and told them to do all possible to aide. If he did, in fact, say that, it would be an order. Then we here from Sec Defense that he, Gen Dempsey and Gen Ham all agreed they couldn't send help because they didn't have enough information. I can pretty much guarantee that aide was sent in a lot of instances that had a whole lot less information than that given by boots on the ground (under fire) and a drove videoing everything from above. So can the Sec of Defense refuse to do what the President said he instructed to do?

    Gen Ham told Rep. Chaffetz(sp) that yes, he had the planes,....yes, he had the men and yes they could have deployed in time to help. He also said that he was never asked to go to their aide.

    In fact, Gen Ham has been relieved and is reportedly "retiring". 6 months before scheduled. Doesn't this raise a few eyebrows? From the numerous military threads I've been reading, the scuttlebutt is that he told the white house his men were ready and he was told to "stand down" and he said "screw it, I'm sending help" and was relieved within 2 minutes by his second in command. If I had to guess, he was subsequently informed that he could either retire and keep his benefits or be courtmartialed for insubordination and failure to obey a direct command from the CIC.

    The plot thickens.....within another day or so Rear Admiral Gaouette was relieved of command also and ordered back to the states for an investigation of "inappropriate judegement". So you have the 2 highest ranking officers relieved of duty within a couple days of each other.

    No coverup? This is going to be so much worse than watergate.

    Can you imagine how relieved the Prez is for this storm? He's still hoping he can run out the clock. But President Nixon was able to run out the clock and get reelected too. Look how well that turned out. Oh yeah, we still had a press that did true investigative journalism. Now we have a press that's helping the current administration try to cover their behinds.

    Y'all can turn a blind eye to this all you want. Obama just isn't the guy you think he is. He doesn't like America. He SAID he didn't like America and that he wanted to "fundamentally change her". He's doing all he can to fulfill his promise.
    Thank you for this! Somebody that gets it.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    I copied this from a comment from another status, the writer of this is Mark BigDog Johnston –
    ...

    .

    Who the heck is Mark BigDog Johnston and why would you think he is any kind of authority on anything? I Googled him and he seems to be some random ranter on Facebook and various websites with commenting features.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  5. #425
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    Minnie's post is ridiculous. E.g., If Obama weren't trying so hard to compromise with Republicans during his first 2 years, the health care bill would have neither the individual mandate nor private insurance companies vs. a single payer system. Obama spent so long trying to compromise with people so determined to take him down by opposing everything he did, that he alienated much of his own base at the time.

    The rest of Minnie's novel is equally fictitious. Revisionist history anyone? If increasing taxes on the rich cost jobs, our periods of much more progressive taxation would not have been prosperous (which they were), and the Gilded Age during which the absence of progressive taxation allowed the Rockefellers, Vanderbilts, etc. to become richer than the government itself, would not have led to the Great Depression (which it did).

    Please note, that today's rich have long had plenty of money to create jobs if they had any motivation to do so, but they don't. After all, their businesses operate for profit not to provide some sort of private workfare, and it's downsizing (firing people), outsourcing, and otherwise "increasing productivity" (getting the most work for the least $ out of each worker) that produces profit, not hiring more people or paying higher wages. Underlying all this, however, is the necessity of having a market for one's products which is hard to sustain if the vast majority of the population is working too hard and long for wages that give them little or nothing in the way of discretionary income or time. As one billionaire put it, "if you want me to hire people, don't give me money or tax breaks. Give me customers." Hence, while the rich have consistently gotten richer over the last 60 years, with more and more people working longer hours for less pay, repeated tax cuts have had nada, zero, nothing in the way of positive effects.

    Done for today. I've already voted for Obama with the 2nd most important reason being that he's far superior to Romney (as he has been over Bush) when it comes to job creation and the economy. (#1 I've already posted pages ago-- moral values)


    8 members found this post helpful.

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Maybe you ought to try, see where you can go with your try?

    I think Minnie is giving some indigestion before they even have had supper.
    Really, it is your impression that anyone would give minnie any credibility at all after comments implying that Barack Obama paid to have his school records "sealed" and that it might be because he applied as a foreign exchange student?

    For real, not going to waste my time.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  7. #427
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    PS Given the stats that other industries cause exponentially more bird deaths than wind, just imagine the outcry about excessive regulation if they were to start agressively prosecuting bird kills....


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
    Ireland's economy went under. Had to be bailed out. Was that obama's fault?

    Greece's economy tanked. And is being bailed out. Was that Obama's fault?

    Spain's economy is going to have to be bailed out soon.. Is that Obama's fault?

    Italy's economy is going to have to be bailed out soon. Is that obama's fault?

    We are, we being the people on this planet, are in a worldwide recession. Obama cannot do what the white politicians in others countries cannot do.

    This is why I prefer southern bigots to yankee bigots:
    Southern male bigot says: "I don't want a black man to be president!" (What he means: "I don't want a black man to be president and the only thing worse that that would be to have a woman president.")

    What yankees (male and female) say: "Obama is a muslim."
    What yankees mean: "Barack is black."

    What yankees say: "Obama was not born in the USA."
    What yankees mean: "Barack is black."

    If you studied history in high school and college, you know that the USA along with the rest of the world wallowed along in years of depression, despite all the programs that FDR instituted to give people jobs. Until WWII. WWII was the catalyst to cause the economy to boom with wartime building. And then the post-war boom. Since we've been involved in so many wars on so many fronts in the middle east for years, a wartime building boom is not going to save us now.

    Now is the time to demand that all our senators and representatives work together to try to find solutions to all the problems that were caused before Obama was elected, and after Clinton left office. We cannot keep invading countries in the middle east and losing those wars. All that money needs to be spent here to create jobs.

    I am not a fan of Obama. But I fear someone who would have let GM and Chrysler go under. EVen the presidents of those 2 companies admit that Obama saved them and all their employees.
    The only thing that race played into, is that he got elected. No other president with such a complete lack of qualifications was ever elected. And 95% of blacks voted for him. How many of those voted for him because of his race, and couldn't begin to tell you what his platform was...
    And look at the half black actress/singer that tweeted a supportive message about Romney, who was barraged with racist tweets from black people calling her names, for not supporting a black pres.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  9. #429
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    If this thread has taught me anything, it is that my instinct to NEVER, EVER move to Texas is dead on.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canaqua View Post
    Who the heck is Mark BigDog Johnston and why would you think he is any kind of authority on anything? I Googled him and he seems to be some random ranter on Facebook and various websites with commenting features.
    I find it funny that the a couple of the Obama haters feel the need repeat the work of some blogger hack instead of actually providing their own assessments. I guess when you cannot put your thoughts together you go find Obama hate spam.

    Still waiting to hear the details of the Romney/Ryan ecomonic plan to fix the economy.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  11. #431
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    Regarding the whole 47% of the country are victims debacle:

    Quote Originally Posted by subk View Post
    I'm curious, do you actually beleive this is what he said? Did you personally listen to the tape and this is what you came up with or is more about where you choose to get your information?
    Why yes, yes I do.

    Here is the video.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  12. #432
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    It's because they have no facts, only blogger hack hate.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #433
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    Thank you, Hungarian Hippo. I do think that NPR program included many of these statistics-- the gist being that it was kind of ridiculous to combat wind turbines as harmful to the environment on the basis of the relatively small small damage they cause bird populations.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineAlready View Post
    Really, it is your impression that anyone would give minnie any credibility at all after comments implying that Barack Obama paid to have his school records "sealed" and that it might be because he applied as a foreign exchange student?

    For real, not going to waste my time.
    That's all you can find to pick on in all that was said?

    What I think is clear here is that, depending on what side of this every one is, their already formed opinion will accept this and not that, because there is plenty of facts that can support both.

    Those that dismiss so violently one or the other without really thinking that some of what is said is really so, if they like it or not, are following bandwagons, on both sides.

    No one can discuss this with them, because of their OPINION, as facts just don't count if it doesn't fit that opinion.

    It would be funny, if it was not sad that all of us will have to live with the unintended consequences of some of their poorly thought ideas.

    What a way to run a railroad.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Regarding the whole 47% of the country are victims debacle:



    Why yes, yes I do.

    Here is the video.
    This video astonishes me every time I watch it. The NERVE! People thinking they are entitled to have their basic human needs met in a civilized society.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    That's all you can find to pick on in all that was said?

    What I think is clear here is that, depending on what side of this every one is, their already formed opinion will accept this and not that, because there is plenty of facts that can support both.

    Those that dismiss so violently one or the other without really thinking that some of what is said is really so, if they like it or not, are following bandwagons, on both sides.

    No one can discuss this with them, because of their OPINION, as facts just don't count if it doesn't fit that opinion.

    It would be funny, if it was not sad that all of us will have to live with the unintended consequences of some of their poorly thought ideas.

    What a way to run a railroad.
    No, there is a lot to pick on, but I find it is not necessary or useful to waste time responding, point-by-point, to a crazy person who has already written "I'm crazy!" on their own forehead in permanent marker.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  17. #437
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    Minnie, thanks for the great posts. You certainly stirred the pot.
    Last edited by kathy s.; Oct. 31, 2012 at 06:41 PM. Reason: spelling
    It's only when a mosquito lands on your privates that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence. fb meme.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  18. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineAlready View Post
    No, there is a lot to pick on, but I find it is not necessary or useful to waste time responding, point-by-point, to a crazy person who has already written "I'm crazy!" on their own forehead in permanent marker.

    ROTFLMAO!



  19. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineAlready View Post
    This video astonishes me every time I watch it. The NERVE! People thinking they are entitled to have their basic human needs met in a civilized society.
    Oh wait, and in case people think the whole, "middle income is $200, 250,000 and less" statement is some sort of liberal conspiracy as well, here is video of Mitt Romney saying that:

    http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2012...year-and-less/
    (at about 5:20)


    4 members found this post helpful.

  20. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Oh wait, and in case people think the whole, "middle income is $200, 250,000 and less" statement is some sort of liberal conspiracy as well, here is video of Mitt Romney saying that:

    http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2012...year-and-less/
    (at about 5:20)
    Ah, yes, this one is an especially funny gem. Someone doesn't know the definition of "middle."


    3 members found this post helpful.

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