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  1. #721
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    Quote Originally Posted by hosspuller View Post
    The flip side of this is the gov't is imposing its beliefs and practice on religious groups. Obamacar is requiring religious organizations to fund abortion in direct opposition to their practice.
    Clarify this for me, please. I know the govt. said everyone, no exceptions, has to provide birth control in their insurance plans, and that abortion-inducing drugs must also be offered in cases of rape.

    Those things are entirely different than every Catholic hospital MUST perform abortions.

    As to birth control, Catholics use it all the time. That's a well-known disconnect between the official church policy & the everyday reality of Catholics.

    I tried to find Romney's views on this but of course, depending on who he's talking to, Mr. Flip-Flop supports both sides. Sigh. http://cnsnews.com/node/508858


    4 members found this post helpful.

  2. #722
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    I know the govt. said everyone, no exceptions, has to provide birth control in their insurance plans, and that abortion-inducing drugs must also be offered in cases of rape.

    Those things are entirely different than every Catholic hospital MUST perform abortions.
    How is NOT the same?!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #723
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post

    I tried to find Romney's views on this but of course, depending on who he's talking to, Mr. Flip-Flop supports both sides. Sigh. http://cnsnews.com/node/508858
    Romney's view on this is to REPEAL Obamacare. Thats all I need to know.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #724
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    Oct. 12, 2005
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    Va
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    Obamacare dictates that all insurance MUST cover birth control, etc. Catholic hospitals, schools and other face based organizations currently do not cover that under the insurance policies they offer their workers and students. Yes, many catholics use birth control and, I'm sure, even have abortions. Whether or not they confess that and take communion I guess is up to them, but if they work for any of the faith based organizations their insurance wouldl not cover that.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #725
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    I think that's a good rule. Just wait until groups start claiming sharia law and saying, "You have to let us stone our infidel daughters to death! It's our religion."
    Nope. Not going to happen.

    And yes, allowing religions to pick & choose which part of USA law they will adhere to and which they will not, is the same. We can't pick & choose which religions get to make their own rules and which are not allowed to do so.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  6. #726
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    Clarify this for me, please. I know the govt. said everyone, no exceptions, has to provide birth control in their insurance plans, and that abortion-inducing drugs must also be offered in cases of rape.

    Those things are entirely different than every Catholic hospital MUST perform abortions.

    As to birth control, Catholics use it all the time. That's a well-known disconnect between the official church policy & the everyday reality of Catholics.
    Let me try ... Insurance is an employment benefit just like wages. The gov't is requiring Catholic hospitals and other Catholic organizations to pay for something against their faith. Pay is another word for perform. Without pay there is no perform. That seems to be infringment to their religious freedom. If a person doesn't want to be limited to the wages and benefits of the Catholic organization, they may quit or not ever be employed by the church.

    Catholics lie, cheat, steal, murder, have abortions, etc. like everyone else... Human failure discredits the person not the faith.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by hosspuller View Post
    Human failure discredits the person not the faith.
    Ahhh. Then why all the freak-outs and accusations of Obama being a Muslim?


    5 members found this post helpful.

  8. #728
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    Jun. 19, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    Clarify this for me, please. I know the govt. said everyone, no exceptions, has to provide birth control in their insurance plans, and that abortion-inducing drugs must also be offered in cases of rape.
    They later included an exemption for religious organizations--they WILL NOT have to pay for the birth control--the insurer will be required to cover the cost. They religious groups just can't strip it from the coverage they offer. But--they do not have to pay for it.

    http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012...ree-of-charge/

    The fact that some church officials are still going on about this supposed "infringement on religious liberty" just goes to show that it's ultimately about forcing their own narrow social agenda on people, not "religious liberty." I was born and raised Catholic, and my parents are active members of their parish. They said that they, and most other members of their church have been rolling their eyes and otherwise ignoring Bishop Lori and his ilk. Apparently our parish priest has also stayed far away from addressing the issue, which indicates just how strongly he feels about it.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  9. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by hosspuller View Post
    Let me try ... Insurance is an employment benefit just like wages. The gov't is requiring Catholic hospitals and other Catholic organizations to pay for something against their faith. Pay is another word for perform. Without pay there is no perform. That seems to be infringment to their religious freedom. If a person doesn't want to be limited to the wages and benefits of the Catholic organization, they may quit or not ever be employed by the church.

    Catholics lie, cheat, steal, murder, have abortions, etc. like everyone else... Human failure discredits the person not the faith.
    No they're not. They ARE NOT required to pay for it. See above post.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    I think that's a good rule. Just wait until groups start claiming sharia law and saying, "You have to let us stone our infidel daughters to death! It's our religion."
    Nope. Not going to happen.

    And yes, allowing religions to pick & choose which part of USA law they will adhere to and which they will not, is the same. We can't pick & choose which religions get to make their own rules and which are not allowed to do so.
    This puzzles me ... Which or what is trying to pick parts of USA law to obey or not. ALL people must obey all the laws. Killing is murder by USA law. Doesn't matter by who. The sole exceptions are abortion, war and punishment

    Efforts to change or maintain the law as prescribed is the right of all citizens.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #731
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    Obamacare dictates that all insurance MUST cover birth control, etc. Catholic hospitals, schools and other face based organizations currently do not cover that under the insurance policies they offer their workers and students. Yes, many catholics use birth control and, I'm sure, even have abortions. Whether or not they confess that and take communion I guess is up to them, but if they work for any of the faith based organizations their insurance wouldl not cover that.
    BZZT. Again, not true.

    At least 26 states have laws requiring insurers that cover prescription drugs also provide coverage for any Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-approved contraceptive. These states include: Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Missouri, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia and Wisconsin. An additional two states—Michigan and Montana—require insurance coverage of contraceptives as a result of administrative ruling or an Attorney General opinion.

    Two states—Texas and Virginia—require that employers be offered the option to include coverage of contraceptives within their health plans. Twenty-one states offer exemptions from contraceptive coverage, usually for religious reasons, for insurers or employers in their policies: Arizona, Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan (administrative rule), Missouri, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Rhode Island, Texas and West Virginia. Several states require employers to notify employees of their refusal to provide contraceptive coverage.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #732
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    Oh natalie ... If the church doesn't have to pay for abortions and such for their employees, who actually writes the check ??Where does the money come from ?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #733
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    Obamacare dictates that all insurance MUST cover birth control, etc. Catholic hospitals, schools and other face based organizations currently do not cover that under the insurance policies they offer their workers and students. Yes, many catholics use birth control and, I'm sure, even have abortions. Whether or not they confess that and take communion I guess is up to them, but if they work for any of the faith based organizations their insurance wouldl not cover that.
    Could you get the facts right? There is an exemption in the health care law which Obama agreed to, which was an amendment co- sponsored by Ma. Sen. Brown that would allow all Catholic hospitals and employers, AS WELL AS, any employer and insurance co to be exempt from BC coverage etc claiming that BC violates their beliefs.
    I think that's a crock of s... What next? Gallbladders?
    No one has a right to force their religious beliefs on me! Period! And if the Catholic church is paying for Viagra, they need to pay for BC. Turning the clock back to the 50s.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  14. #734
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    Quote Originally Posted by hosspuller View Post
    Oh natalie ... If the church doesn't have to pay for abortions and such for their employees, who actually writes the check ??Where does the money come from ?
    Actually, it costs the insurance companies less to include birth control than to cover pregnancy. So no one is actually paying extra for anything.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    5 members found this post helpful.

  15. #735
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    IAnd yes, allowing religions to pick & choose which part of USA law they will adhere to and which they will not, is the same. We can't pick & choose which religions get to make their own rules and which are not allowed to do so.
    Perhaps you should check out the First Amendment.

    The First Amendment not only has the Establishment Clause (most people think of it as "separation of church and state") it also has the Free Exercise Clause which protects the rights of people to practice religion--meaning the government shouldn't be able to pass laws that infringe on those rights in the first place.

    The argument isn't whether churches should follow the law it's about whether the law is an infringement of the church's First Amendment rights.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #736
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Actually, it costs the insurance companies less to include birth control than to cover pregnancy. So no one is actually paying extra for anything.
    Yes. The free market takes care of it, so why does the government need to intervene--get the government out of it!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #737
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    Sep. 24, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by pezk View Post
    Could you get the facts right? There is an exemption in the health care law which Obama agreed to, which was an amendment co- sponsored by Ma. Sen. Brown that would allow all Catholic hospitals and employers, AS WELL AS, any employer and insurance co to be exempt from BC coverage etc claiming that BC violates their beliefs.
    I think that's a crock of s... What next? Gallbladders?
    No one has a right to force their religious beliefs on me! Period! And if the Catholic church is paying for Viagra, they need to pay for BC. Turning the clock back to the 50s.
    Facts as said by you...

    By the way What amendment sponsored by Senator brown are you refering to ? Amendments unless passed by both houses and signed by the president are nothing.

    ..."The HHS religious exemption applies only to organizations that primarily restrict their employment and services to members of their own faith. This would include houses of worship and parochial schools but would not include institutions like hospitals; social service agencies, charities and institutions of higher learning sponsored and run by a religious entity that opposes contraception on religious grounds..."

    As published by http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/e...on/2012/02/08/


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #738
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    Nov. 6, 2002
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    Henrico, NC 36 30'50.49" N 77 50'17.47" W
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    Okay, question for the self-proclaimed experts on this.

    How is Romneycare in Mass. different from Obamacare for the country on this issue?

    This is a simple question. Let's see how simple the answers are.



  19. #739
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    Aug. 12, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by pezk View Post
    Could you get the facts right? There is an exemption in the health care law which Obama agreed to, which was an amendment co- sponsored by Ma. Sen. Brown that would allow all Catholic hospitals and employers, AS WELL AS, any employer and insurance co to be exempt from BC coverage etc claiming that BC violates their beliefs.
    I think that's a crock of s... What next? Gallbladders?
    No one has a right to force their religious beliefs on me! Period! And if the Catholic church is paying for Viagra, they need to pay for BC. Turning the clock back to the 50s.
    Are you talking about the Blunt Amendment? The bill that would have allowed any employer to exclude any service from their health care plan for "moral reasons"? If so, that was, thankfully, shot down in the Senate. That was a heinous bill, for sure. And Scott Brown's co-sponsorship of it was what lead me to make donations to, and make some phone calls for, Elizabeth Warren. I wasn't going to vote for him anyway, but once he put his name on that bill, I wanted him GONE.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #740
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    Quote Originally Posted by subk View Post
    Yes. The free market takes care of it, so why does the government need to intervene--get the government out of it!
    Because the churches were interfering with the free market.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    4 members found this post helpful.

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