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  1. #661
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    I think making a lot of money by shipping all of the jobs from an Illinois town to make MORE money is immoral when you could have kept it here and not made quite so much.

    I think making a lot of money because you secretly got $10 million from the auto bailout that you lambasted Obama for giving is immoral.

    I've posted these links repeatedly.

    You can't think of other examples where people make a lot of money and it's very immoral? Drug dealers? Prostitution rings? Pornography, or child pornography if you're OK with the regular. I could give a LONG list of ways to make a ton of money that everyone would agree is seriously immoral to somewhat immoral.
    Way to go, did you forget your examples are about illegal activities and not necessarily make money?

    What does that has to do with business, or is business also inherently unethical?
    Think about that answer carefully before you write.

    Edited to add I was not the only one finding that confusing.


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  2. #662
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    Making a buck or millions by screwing someone over is immoral. Justifying it everyday and twice on Sunday doesn't change that fact.

    I swear these uber wealthy folks are nothing more than money "hoarders", there never will be enough, more is better. No different than poor people hoarding junk.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  3. #663
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    Nom--I was picking the most extreme examples. Some people do not think pornography is flat out wrong. And, yes, I think destroying a perfectly good business that is doing OK so you can personally make more by shipping it out of country is pretty immoral.

    I guess you two don't have a problem with people destroying lives, the environment, whole towns because it's not illegal. There are plenty of "legit" businesses that are immoral. Say someone finds oil under YOUR house or property and has the money to sue and force you out so they can get in there and take it. That's perfectly legal. Or, say, they bought the laws to not be regulated in the oil or fracking industry (a la Cheney/Haliburton) so they can drill/frack within fragile environments populated by others or that affect many others. They can get away with it because it's cheaper to pay the fines for an oil spill than to drill safely.

    Really? You guys think this is not immoral?

    This was in response to Nom "Hold on, why do you think making a lot of money has morality issues?" if you're not following the train of thought, which seems to be a repeated problem.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #664
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    This is the beginning of a trend in response to Obamacare.

    Darden will begin to implement a policy in 2013 to deal with Obamcare mandates. Their new employees will not be hired as fulltime employees, they will be part timers. This is a new trend to get around the mandates of Obamacare.

    The restaurant business is just beginning to start this trend in hiring. But others will surely follow.

    http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-con...s-2502912.html
    A trend beginning ? Where have you been, this has always been a trend to hire part-time. Companies such as Walmart have always avoided paying employees benefits by hiring them part-time. This has NOTHING to do with healthcare reform. Restaurants typically hire people part-time, I spent many years working in restaurants in the 1980's and people were always hired part-time to avoid benefits, but hey I guess that was Obama's fault for you people.

    Again, it is comical to blame Obama for this "trend" but if Romney gets elected with his corporate experience, you can bet that benefits for workers will be at an all-time low. It is the corporate standard, give as little benefits as legally possible.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  5. #665
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    There is a reason Jesus did not like the money changers in his temple. http://nymag.com/news/features/money-brain-2012-7/


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    Nom--I was picking the most extreme examples. Some people do not think pornography is flat out wrong. And, yes, I think destroying a perfectly good business that is doing OK so you can personally make more by shipping it out of country is pretty immoral.

    I guess you two don't have a problem with people destroying lives, the environment, whole towns because it's not illegal. There are plenty of "legit" businesses that are immoral. Say someone finds oil under YOUR house or property and has the money to sue and force you out so they can get in there and take it. That's perfectly legal. Or, say, they bought the laws to not be regulated in the oil or fracking industry (a la Cheney/Haliburton) so they can drill/frack within fragile environments populated by others or that affect many others. They can get away with it because it's cheaper to pay the fines for an oil spill than to drill safely.

    Really? You guys think this is not immoral?
    A bit of nonsense in all that.

    First, the business would not have sold as it did if it was as successful as some want to believe.
    Those business don't sell if they are fliers for other than much more than their actual worth.

    Second, you again keep bringing examples of business that are regulated and have been thru courts that determined where some rights end and others start.
    That is an ongoing process.

    Example if it was your house they wanted to drill on and you wanted/needed that money and if you don't sell they will just move on and drill on your neighbor, what would you do?

    As for environmental questions, see above, all that, believe it or not is extremely regulated.
    Try doing work in that field and you will see how difficult it is, as it should be, but in the end, there is again that pesky trade off with what concern comes first, to be determined in each situation and not always with the same conclusion.

    I think so much you say is generalities and sound bites the media loves to use to bash all we do, but in reality, when you follow thru and become better informed, it is not so easy and clear who there needs bashing, not if we want to have a society that works.

    Now, you talk about outsourcing jobs?
    That is what is happening when regulations and taxation become too burdensome to be able to keep running your business here.
    Ask the steel and textile industry, that Clinton managed to run out of the USA.
    I am afraid much of agriculture is going the same way also, where we will end up importing much of our food from countries with much less regulations.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    There is a reason Jesus did not like the money changers in his temple. http://nymag.com/news/features/money-brain-2012-7/
    You understand that is not about money, but about resources?

    The same applies to who is ahead at any time in the polls for a sufficient margin to feel less anxious and then what do they do?
    They become insufferably confident, until that starts costing them points in the polls.

    Seen that in this election, as we can in all we do in life, including here, where when several are supporting what you post, you get more brave and wilder, unlike others that being pressured, then have to scramble to hold their position and pull back.

    Even amoebas do that, is part of how we interact with our environment, at all levels.


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  8. #668
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    You're clearly going to believe what you believe no matter what. I give you generalities, you complain. I give you specifics, you complain. This is an ongoing issue with you.

    I think there are MANY ways to become rich that are immoral. I do not think that people "deserve" it because they are rich and worked so much harder than everyone else. It's all circumstance. We need to change our thinking on this as a country and a world.

    You clearly support that someone must deserve what they are get because they are so rich, and thus we can't complain, and anyone should be able to do whatever they want with their money with no regard to the world or those around them.

    I am done trying to explain to someone who can not and will not think.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  9. #669
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    Nom--I was picking the most extreme examples. Some people do not think pornography is flat out wrong. And, yes, I think destroying a perfectly good business that is doing OK so you can personally make more by shipping it out of country is pretty immoral.

    I guess you two don't have a problem with people destroying lives, the environment, whole towns because it's not illegal. There are plenty of "legit" businesses that are immoral. Say someone finds oil under YOUR house or property and has the money to sue and force you out so they can get in there and take it. That's perfectly legal. Or, say, they bought the laws to not be regulated in the oil or fracking industry (a la Cheney/Haliburton) so they can drill/frack within fragile environments populated by others or that affect many others. They can get away with it because it's cheaper to pay the fines for an oil spill than to drill safely.

    Really? You guys think this is not immoral?

    This was in response to Nom "Hold on, why do you think making a lot of money has morality issues?" if you're not following the train of thought, which seems to be a repeated problem.
    Just ONE MORE reason to vote AGAINST Obama, he has demonized people who are wealthy, he analogyzes wealth with illegal activity. He makes people like you believe that anyone who is a business executive is evil, immoral and corrupt.

    There is nothing wrong with being wealthy. There is nothing wrong with businesses failing, yes thats right, if companies go bankrupt there is a pretty darn good reason.

    There is nothing wrong with drilling for Oil, fracking for natural gas and digging for coal.

    If you find something wrong or immoral with any of the industries you mention, then you are perfectly free to disconnect from the grid or give up driving your car.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #670
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    This is the beginning of a trend in response to Obamacare.

    Darden will begin to implement a policy in 2013 to deal with Obamcare mandates. Their new employees will not be hired as fulltime employees, they will be part timers. This is a new trend to get around the mandates of Obamacare.

    The restaurant business is just beginning to start this trend in hiring. But others will surely follow.

    http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-con...s-2502912.html
    This "trend" as you call it, has been around for a long, long time.
    UPS, as an example, who has a hub in Louisville, has always hired part time to avoid benefits. After a few years you may get lucky and get full time and their outstanding benefits.

    And restaurant workers on part time, no bennies? It's been like that forever.
    Really, where have you been???

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    You're clearly going to believe what you believe no matter what. I give you generalities, you complain. I give you specifics, you complain. This is an ongoing issue with you.

    I think there are MANY ways to become rich that are immoral. I do not think that people "deserve" it because they are rich and worked so much harder than everyone else. It's all circumstance. We need to change our thinking on this as a country and a world.

    You clearly support that someone must deserve what they are get because they are so rich, and thus we can't complain, and anyone should be able to do whatever they want with their money with no regard to the world or those around them.

    I am done trying to explain to someone who can not and will not think.
    Right, you too are going to believe what you want.
    Why not, if it works for you, fine, of course.

    As for your guess of who I am, well, you are so far off as not even being in the same planet, I think.
    I won't get personal, guessing at what I think you think, if that makes sense.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #672
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    A trend beginning ? Where have you been, this has always been a trend to hire part-time. Companies such as Walmart have always avoided paying employees benefits by hiring them part-time. This has NOTHING to do with healthcare reform. Restaurants typically hire people part-time, I spent many years working in restaurants in the 1980's and people were always hired part-time to avoid benefits, but hey I guess that was Obama's fault for you people.

    Again, it is comical to blame Obama for this "trend" but if Romney gets elected with his corporate experience, you can bet that benefits for workers will be at an all-time low. It is the corporate standard, give as little benefits as legally possible.
    Obamacare will descemate companies like Darden. Some will begin laying off people in order to comply with the new legislation kicking in Jan 1 2013.

    Just wait and see how many people will shift to part time, when traditionally they were full time employees. Just wait.....


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    We need to change our thinking on this as a country and a world.
    But see, then we wouldn't be a capitalist country anymore.....

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post

    There is nothing wrong with drilling for Oil, fracking for natural gas and digging for coal.
    That is, until there is something wrong. Which...apparently there is in some or maybe many instances.


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  15. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    That is, until there is something wrong. Which...apparently there is in some or maybe many instances.
    Just being contrary here, but what is "many", why whining about yet one more our society does that gives so much of what we need to live as we do?

    There is no action without reaction.

    Not going on with drilling, etc. would have consequences I don't think anyone here would want to live thru, unless they are thinking of moving to another world by teleportation.


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  16. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    But see, then we wouldn't be a capitalist country anymore.....
    You say that while living in the very enviable, top of the world in living standards, that includes individual freedoms, country capitalism, warts and all, has provided for you?

    I wonder if you are a citizen of this country by an accident of birth and if you realize what it is to be born in other places, to compare properly what this country, capitalism and all, really is?


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  17. #677
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    May I point out, I know this might seem alien to some, but there is not one single person/s who have EVER opened a business to provide jobs for other people. They open a business to MAKE MONEY. Duh. Some even open a business as (perish the thought) they'd like to work hard and GET RICH. Duh. Their work, their risk, the opportunity to succeed or fail.

    That's why people come to America both past and future. They come for just the OPPORTUNITY! They have the drive to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. Look at all the very successful immigrants who have come to America with nothing but their dreams in their pockets and become very successful entrepreneurs. Some of them might not even have been able to speak English when they got here. They have what the socialistic society has robbed from our minority communities with their generational welfare programs....initiative. The welfare program has decimated the black community. It's one of the reason that the welfare reform program has been successful.


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  18. #678
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    Obamacare will descemate companies like Darden. Some will begin laying off people in order to comply with the new legislation kicking in Jan 1 2013.

    Just wait and see how many people will shift to part time, when traditionally they were full time employees. Just wait.....
    Just wait.....it has been happening since the 1980's. So, if it continues.....well everything is Obama's fault.

    What is certain to happen if Romney is elected is that collective bargaining will be outlawed, workers will have fewer benefits, workers will be hired full-time with little or no benefits, that is Romney's corporate world. I work in the corporate world, and working free every week is expected.


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  19. #679
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    May I point out, I know this might seem alien to some, but there is not one single person/s who have EVER opened a business to provide jobs for other people. They open a business to MAKE MONEY. Duh. Some even open a business as (perish the thought) they'd like to work hard and GET RICH. Duh. Their work, their risk, the opportunity to succeed or fail.

    That's why people come to America both past and future. They come for just the OPPORTUNITY! They have the drive to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. Look at all the very successful immigrants who have come to America with nothing but their dreams in their pockets and become very successful entrepreneurs. Some of them might not even have been able to speak English when they got here. They have what the socialistic society has robbed from our minority communities with their generational welfare programs....initiative. The welfare program has decimated the black community. It's one of the reason that the welfare reform program has been successful.
    I will add, the whole world by most standards is better.
    We have now in the last half century gone from 2/3 rds of the world starving to 1/2 and getting better and better for more.

    Oh, there is plenty still to do to help as many as we can, may never get there before humans self destruct, but at least we are getting better.

    I don't see why some can't see but what is still not good enough and won't lift their eyes from that and see the bigger picture, that is so many are and always have been working to make the world better for themselves, yes, but also for others too, each in their own small or bigger way.


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  20. #680
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    This entities have proven time and time again they cannot go unregulated. C'mon Bluey. Is it because YOU haven't had to live in the wake of a man-made catastrophe that you deem my statement foolhardy?

    I don't want an open pit mine set on top of my aquifer, the same aquifer that supplies clean water to most of Northern WI. It may create jobs but at what cost? They cannot guarantee against contamination. Sorry not worth it. So far humans can't live without clean water. Neither can most of earth's creatures. We are our own worst enemy. I suppose Monsanto could engineer a species of corn/wheat that lives on heavy metals. Not my idea of living in that world.


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