What lines/sires do you look for in a TB's lines to indicate that they may be a good choice as a future sporthorse (assuming the conformation and temperament are there)?
I have this horse, my heart horse, who is extremely athletic (can you say SCOPE?), has great style over fences, is sensitive but not crazy under saddle, is extremely trainable and smart, and has fufilled my every wish as a first horse (move-up from ponies) to do dressage, hunters, equitation, and jumpers with. A bit quirky on the ground, but I love him the same. He has a very nice (lower-set) neck, a great shoulder, huge stride, but his pasterns are a bit too long (although this has not affected him in the slightest). Are there any noteable horses in his line that often have offspring like him?
Next, I have this horse. I hear the Blushing Groom/Digamist part of his lines is known to throw smaller, athletic, easy-going, hunter or eventer types. He is no exception- quiet quiet quiet, 15.3/16 hands, nice mover when he actually MOVES, and would probably be a nice walk/trot mount at four years old for a kid with a stick. I'm hoping he'll make a nice 3' hunter. He too has a lower-set neck, a tiny bit too short though, and is built like a tank with a cute head. Much more of a playful, sweet attitude. Any horses in there that give this, or just the Blushing Groom part?
I have another, a big gray with an upright neck that would have made a phenomenal big jumper. His career was 3'6" hunters, then stepped down and did 3' hunters and equitation. He is now semi-retired but I may bring him back and do some low-level hunters with him. Super athletic, great jump, GREAT canter. Very classic look. I forgot his registered name but once I figure it out I'll post his pedigree too.
So, how to find horses with similar pedigrees to the ones I LOVE riding? Look on CANTER and check every pedigree? Any other notable lines you look for in a sporthorse? What do they pass on?
Last edited by Crown Royal; Oct. 19, 2012 at 08:49 AM.
Reason: All three links fixed/added
As far as finding horses with pedigrees you like: studying CANTER is a great idea. It develops your eye for horses you like-- and then look up the pedigree and try to find common ancestors. After viewing many, many horses you'll get good at identifying certain features and where they came from (the Storm Cat type, the Pleasant Colony type, the Fappiano type, etc) and how they blend.
If you're interested in a specific sire/dam, you can do a progeny search on Pedigreequery.com. It may not be 100% accurate, but it's a good (free) start. Perhaps it will lead you to photos of other offspring, or at least identify individuals and allow you to look up their race replays.
Here's my response on the forementioned topic, copied here:
While I love all these old names mentioned, it's getting harder and harder to find them up close. And one thing I remember from a very grueling Genetics class in college is that past the 4th generation, it's so dilute that it probably doesn't matter.
-Grandparents each 25%
-Great Grandparents each 12.5%
-Great great Grandparents each 6.25%. (Meaning 93.75% of the genetics likely comes from somewhere else.)
Now, there are prepotent lines, which may trend down a long ways. But seeing one name waaaay back there means very little to me, statistically.
I'm finding myself studying "current" sires and lines a lot more, trying to pick out trends and the ones who produce what I like. Fortunately, being in Lexington and working on TB farms for a few years let me see a lot.
Of more recent sires, I like:
Pleasant Colony-- tend to be long-legged, uphill, big gallopers and above-average movers. Knew one personally who did very well in YEH and evented to intermediate.
AP Indy-- gosh the good ones are so athletic. The ones I've known had good minds, too. It helps that AP Indy saw a lot of really nice mares, so you're not likely to see many duds. He has quite a few sons at stud, and some are more successful than others, but it's a bit early to tell which exactly will make good sport horses...but I'm optimistic. I have an AP Indy grandson who greatly resembles API moreso than his sire; this isn't uncommon, in my experience.
Pulpit, by AP Indy-- they seem to be stamped with nice front ends, beautiful arched necks and shoulders. Some of them are kinda short with chunky pony bodies, but those with legs are super nice...and most of them are athletic, chunky or not.
Langfuhr-- usually have big, huge shoulders, big hips, and an enormous walk. If they aren't too big for themselves, pretty nice movers and jumpers.
Fappiano and his relateds-- it's hard to go wrong with Fapp relatives: Quiet American, Comet Shine, Unbridled, etc. Unbridled's Song himself gives me pause, but the rest of them make me happy. All seem to have great proportions, nice toplines, good solid horses and overwhelming success in sport.
Sadler's Wells-- he's made a tremendous amount of nice turf horses, and some super jumpers too. I'm a fan of his son El Prado, too...usually pretty proportionate. And another who makes yummy-looking kids: Medaglia D'Oro, by El Prado.
Storm Cat-- yeah they can be headcases, but also athletic, cat-like, and some are great movers. I'm not crazy about most SC sons at stud...I run away from Giant's Causeway, for example, but it depends on the horse. I've liked a few Hennessy's-- but I love Hennessy's dam (by Hawaii). SC on the mare side is highly variable...some are nice, some are not, hard to judge.
Roberto-- not always the best movers, but great jumpers. Rode a Roberto foxhunter who was as game as they come. Roberto seems to be fairly common among steeplechasers (like McDynamo, by Dynaformer, a son of Roberto).
Others I'm keeping an eye on:
Include-- by Broad Brush, he has some old school up close. I've only seen a couple personally, but they were tall, uphill, long legs and big flowing strides. My type.
Empire Maker-- it sucks he went to Japan, he's had some nice athletic types. Don't know many in sport horse careers (yet), but I like the type of horse he makes: moderate size, proportionate, classic TBs with big hearts.
Tiznow-- he stamps his get well with a super classic TB look. They always seem to catch my eye out in the field, just the way they're put together: long legs, long uphill necks, with a look of eagles. Tend to have upright pasterns; don't know how well they hold up, or if they jump, but I'd be willing to give it a try!
Lion Heart-- he himself was decidedly NOT my type, but I fell in love with quite a few of his offspring who were well-proportioned, leggy, and had great minds. Good-looking horses, too bad Lion Heart went to Turkey.
Cherokee Run (and sons)-- I haven't met enough of them personally to get a good judgment, but they tend to be light, athletic types with chrome. I get the impression they'd jump the moon and move well, but don't know enough of them in sport to say for sure.
Looking horses of similar pedigree: first you have Mr. Prospector. As the most popular sire of his time you can't throw a rock and NOT hit something with Mr.P in it. The (true) saying about him is that Mr.Ps are great horses IF you can find a sound one. He threw a lot of horses with right foreleg confo and unsoundness issues. The farther you get away from direct offspring of Mr. P offspring the problem becomes less. Some of his sons are well known for soundness or UNsoundness issues. There are also tons of unknown quantity offspring. If it is a lesser known line then I would look at race record as an indicator of soundness. As noted above, Fappaino is known to be one of his sounder sons, Unbridleds Song one of the problematic ones. Sir Gaylord produces good hunter/jumper types....some lines are well tempered, some known to be rather tempermental. Habitat is probably one of his most used sons/easiest to find offspring from. My Babu is excellent though older and harder to find these days.
we own a son of broad brush"gold brush" just shy of 17 hands.
gold brush is standing in oregon.at dreamweaver quarterhorses 541 659 8855.............we are not only breeding him to thoroughbred mares for racing but also to 3 day eventers.fee is only 700.his dam sharp princess by sharpen up.he is breeders cup nominated but did not race due to a eye injury,why his fee is low.he was owned by a vet and she just bred him to her own quarters.hidden gem.we went on the hunt for thoroughbred mares.we bought a daughter of awesome again,reddatore,wild again,sendipity,lei of gold.........2 of the mares names first foal crop in 2014 for us.hes got some real old lines people are looking for,and we are reasonable.just google dreamweaverranch or dreamweaver quarterhorses http://freewebs.com/dreamweaverranch
If you watch the eventing forum, the bloodlines a lot of eventers are drawn towards are the Hail To Reason lines (Roberto, Dynaformer). Most of my horses go back to one HtR son or another, crossed with Fappiano or In Reality. I also haven't seen a Pulpit ( or Tapit, i also have a lovely Sky Mesa mare) baby I didn't like. Gotta say, I totally agree with EventerAJ's take on it. Langfur, Sadlers Wells, Empire Maker, I tend to like the offspring of the studs she listed. Rode a Tiznow a few times that was really neat, would have loved to ave gotten him off the track and in the ring!
You are doing fine. These are very good pedigrees for sport...even great assuming you have the conformation. I would not be surprised if they ARE good at sport. Set Dance http://www.pedigreequery.com/set+dance starts with Tri Jet to Legendra the only iffy would be Mr Prospector who isn't bad just if he is a good sport producer should have more successful get because he had so MANY the percentage should be higher but heis not badly bred for sport more poorer type for sport. Set Dancers dam side is wonderful with Habitat, Owen Tudor, Crozier and Down through Gay Bird...Crozier was a hunter sire.
Finding pedigrees like this is not easy as they are much less seen in modern racing lines. You should find Kris S but to find Double Jay and most of the others so close up would be hard. Blushing Groom is a good modern name you can find. The Set Dance pedigree is unlikely to find but again you obviously kept your eye open for these. Your Rio San Padro has Irish TBs and they will be more likely to be more tested in sport. You shop conformation first I think in TBs as there can be such poor conformation for holding up in sport. Good luck. PatO
columbus, I'm lucky enough to own 3 mares who all have Tri Jet in either 2nd or 3rd gen., and one of them also has Crozier in the 3rd. She's a hunter-movement extraordinaire! When you can find the ones that really take after the Tri Jet/Crozier bloodlines, they really stamp themselves.
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